Nokia still haven't fixed their Download! service. Is it time for a third party to step in?
Published by Tzer2 at 9:50 UTC, September 25th 2008
Nokia's Download! service is a built-in app shop on most S60 handsets, and represents a potentially brilliant way to get S60 software to S60 users, increase sales of Nokia phones and generally make a lot of money for all concerned. Unfortunately Download! is a really badly organised shop with a very poor choice of software, and the phrase "massive wasted opportunity" hangs over it. Will a third party now take up this opportunity and offer a proper app shop?
It's quite a long-running complaint, and AAS has written several articles related to this, but it's still worth repeating: when is Nokia going to replace or reform their dreadful Download! service?
The shop, which appears as an icon on most S60 phone menus nowadays, is supposed to provide a means for browsing and purchasing games and apps straight onto the phone. It's a great idea, but as it stands Download! is a mess, and has been since it was set up a few years ago.


Download! is a really good idea, but it doesn't currently live up to its potential.
So what exactly are the faults with the Download! service?
Ah, where to start. The secret of any catalogue is to organise it logically and fill it with consistently good quality content, but Download! fails in these tasks and others too.
- Recent reforms (at least on some handsets) grouped the content into "Applications", "News & Info", "Videos", "Graphics", "Games" and "Tones", which sound okay so far, but there are even more categories including "Try For Free", "What's New" and "What's Hot" which contain content that isn't necessarily in any of the previous categories.
- Software isn't where you expect it to be. Some games aren't in the "Games" folder for example, and the categories like "Try For Free", "What's New" and "What's Hot" don't even explain what kind of content they offer.
- Categories are blatantly mis-used, for example the "Videos" folder contains a Simpsons section which you would assume means video clips of the series, but it actually just has ringtones and wallpaper.
- The selection of games and apps isn't consistent from handset to handset. If you buy two S60 devices with practically identical computing abilities, you may see totally different selections available in Download! with no logical reason for it. If certain phones can run the same software, why aren't they being offered the same software?
- Ancient games like Capsule SE and Bad Day In Space are there, while more advanced (and more playable!) titles like K-Rally and Virtual Pool Mobile aren't.
- Themes are one of the most popular types of S60 download, yet there's no themes section at all.
- There's no obvious way to tell the difference between S60 and Java apps, which may matter a lot to some people (especially if there are very different S60 and Java versions of the same app).


On the left is the contents of Download!'s Videos section, but closer examination reveals that there are no videos in "The Simpsons", just ringtones and wallpaper.
Why is Download! in such a poor state?
We don't know exactly how Nokia decides upon the content of Download!, but if we had to speculate it could be because of something like this:
It's possible that Nokia have made Download! a marketplace with slots open to the highest bidders, like the take-off slots sold to airlines by airports. If that's the case, content would be appearing in Download! based on how much the publisher paid to put it there, rather than how good the content itself is. That would explain the prominence given to big name publishers like EA and Jamba, while smaller but higher quality publishers like Infinite Dreams are left out completely. It would also help explain why most of the content is cheap tat rather than anything that can stand on its own two feet, as the publishers would have spent money on buying the slot instead of developing the game.
A slot marketplace would also help to explain why the Download! catalogue is so haphazardly organised, perhaps bigger companies have bought their own separate sections so they don't have their content mixed in with the smaller publishers.
Such a marketplace might even explain the odd variation between Download! on different handset models: maybe slots are sold per handset model, so publishers with smaller budgets only pay to appear on some models.
But if there's no slot marketplace then something is seriously wrong with the Download! quality control teams, because it would mean they're picking terrible content, ignoring good content, and sticking it all together in a silly and difficult-to-navigate way.
Whatever the truth, something is seriously wrong with the content selection and organisation processes on the Download! service. S60 publishers are making content, S60 users might want to buy it, but no one is bringing these two sides together. The situation has to change, or the S60 ecosystem will continue to be a shadow of what its userbase figures say it should be.


Clicking on the "Try For Free" icon reveals a totally different category system. "Try For Free" includes games that don't appear in the main "Games" folder, and apps that don't appear in the main "Applications" folder. Very confusing and makes no sense at all.
Could a third party app store do better?
People have been moaning about Download! for ages and nothing seems to ever happen, so perhaps Nokia isn't really interested in fixing it. But S60 is an open platform and in theory anyone can set up a similar service if they want to. Could a third party step in to offer something like Download!, but do it properly?
At the moment there are two major third party companies selling S60 software: Handango and ClickGamer/ClickApps. Both of them have mobile versions of their websites, but neither of them have a Download!-style app, probably because they want to keep their shops as platform-neutral as possible.
There's also a surprising reluctance in the mobile content world to support S60 perhaps driven by the fact that most S60 owners don't know they own a smartphone, they think it's just a Nokia, Samsung, LG etc.
This lack of awareness severely restricts the number of S60 users that buy native apps, which in turn puts off developers from supporting S60. It wouldn't matter though if there was an app shop actually on the phone, because S60 users wouldn't need to know about their phone's OS in order to buy native software. All they'd have to do is click on the app shop's icon, choose whatever software they'd like to install, and the app would make sure they can only choose from compatible software. It would be fool-proof and a potential gold mine.



Although it's not perfect, the new N-Gage platform provides a much more user-friendly, consistent and intuitive way to buy apps onto your phone and communicate with other app users. Download! could learn a lot from N-Gage.
How could an in-phone content shop be done properly?
Of course it's easy to complain about something and much harder to say how things should happen instead, so here are some suggestions for how any on-phone shop should work.
A few guiding principles:
- The browsing and purchasing of content should be done through an app rather than a website, and the N-Gage app is a good example of how this can be done on S60 (though to be fair the N-Gage app seems to contain at least some online Flash Lite pages embedded in the Showroom section). App-based shops are much smoother and quicker to navigate because they only need to load the details of each item rather than the layout of the entire page, and they can even be navigated offline if the catalogue has been updated recently.
- Content submission should cost nothing (or at most a small token sum to prevent time-wasters). This would allow small-but-excellent publishers behind titles like MicroPool to get their content to a wider audience.
- However, content should only be included if it's reasonably good. Quality niche content is fine, but content without any possible appreciative audience ought to be denied access to the shop. To find out more about this issue see AAS's review of Lucky Lotto, probably the worst app ever sold by a major retailer.
- All content should be organised into a central index, for example with all games under "Games", and each category divided into smaller sub-categories if necessary.
- All content should include a concise and accurate summary of what the content is and who would enjoy it. There should also be at least one screenshot showing the content working (for example gameplay if it's a game), and demos would be welcome though not compulsory.
- All apps and games should be clearly and honestly labelled as Native S60, Java J2ME or Flash Lite. This is as important as the ingredients list on a packet of food.
- A certain amount of good quality freeware should also be on offer. While it sounds nuts for a money-making business give away free games, it does make sense because it tempts in customers who may be new to the whole process of obtaining content through their phone, or just new to that particular shop. Genuine freeware would be available at no cost to the retailer, so they wouldn't be losing anything by including it in their selection of content.
- If you're going to include customer reviews, try to have some mechanism for ensuring that only people who've bought an item can review it. The N-Gage platform's review system is open to all, and most of its "reviews" consist of comments about the demo (which is pointless as we can all play it for free) or messages that have nothing to do with the game at all.
- All purchased content should be automatically available to re-download at no extra charge (i.e. "Download Protection" should be free). The one thing that most puts people off buying downloads is the worry that they may accidentally delete it and have to re-purchase. Such fears need to be addressed if download services wish to gain new customers.


Download!'s Tones section is disturbingly empty, while its Games section seems more like a list of sponsors than a proper catalogue. How is someone meant to find a particular game if they don't know the name of its publisher? And what if someone wants a particular type of game?
How can a third party create a rival for Download! without having their shop included in firmware?
That's a very very very good question. The strength of Download! is its ubiquity, most people with an S60 phone see a Download! icon on the main menu by default, and even Series 40 phones are starting to get their own version of the service.
It would be difficult for a third party shop to reach as many people as Download! because they have no access to the firmware on phones, but there are ways to spread the word and encourage people to install a third party shop themselves:
- Be competitive with prices. It's astonishing how expensive content is in some download shops, and quite often the software's creator/publisher only get a small fraction of that money. With a smaller markup a shop could have lower prices AND more money for the creator/publisher, which would attract both customers and suppliers. It would mean less profit per sale of course, but it would also mean higher sale volumes and give everyone a clear reason to choose you instead of your rivals. The convenience of buying straight onto the handset at a low price might even tempt people who currently pirate content to actually pay for it, which would give you customers that no one else has, and grow the market in the process.
- Make the shop app easily downloadable straight onto users' phones from a very simple url (the adverts could show some desirable content and then say "To buy this app, just open your phone's web browser and go to installourshop.com" or something like that). [We do recognise not being available out of the box is, itself, a big problem - Ed].
- Give away a small amount of high quality content free of charge, then advertise the fact. If people can get something really good from your shop gratis just by installing your shop app, they may be tempted to see what else you have to offer, and perhaps tell their friends about it too.
- Sell some exclusive content. If your shop does go for lower mark-ups than your rivals' shops, that would make it much easier to negotiate an exclusivity deal with a content creator/publisher. They would be getting more money per sale and the lower overall price would increase sale volumes too, so a deal could be potentially very attractive to them.
- Have a loyalty scheme, where people who buy 10 apps get the 11th free or something along those lines. It would encourage customers to stick with that particular service, reward return customers, and in turn generate good word of mouth.
- Offer good customer service to both purchasers and content makers/publishers. There are lots of horror stories about customer service on phone content shops, so communicating well and following up complaints adequately will help a shop stand out from the crowd. People don't generally mind things going wrong if they're dealt with properly and promptly.
Even so, Nokia really ought to be doing this themselves
Despite the opportunity here for an app shop run by a third party, there's no denying that Nokia themselves have the biggest opportunity. They have the ability to include such a store in the default firmware of all their S60 devices (and Series 40 too if we include Java apps), which would give them a tremendous potential customer base.
Unfortunately all they've done recently is a ridiculously convoluted marketing campaign which didn't even work properly, and where the only reward was viewing a very short and silly video. Instead of spending money trying to recreate a weird dream they had the other night, Nokia need to come up with a service that is centred around the potential S60 app user, so that S60 app makers have an easy way to reach their customers.
It's baffling that Nokia, on the one hand, spends all this time and money on excellent developer resources, like Forum Nokia, but then, on the other hand, refuses to make their on-phone app shop actually sell all this great S60 software that has been written.
A proper on-phone app shop with an easy-to-use interface and reasonable prices could do wonders for sales of S60 software, create loyalty to S60 among existing users, tempt new users to try out S60 devices, and it could even sideline piracy if the prices were low enough and the download process was convenient enough. It would also add a heck of a lot of value to Nokia phones at very little cost, which means more hardware sales, more market share and more profits.
There are loads of reasons why Download! needs to be replaced or thoroughly overhauled, and there aren't really any reasons to keep it the way it is. There's also a huge pile of money to be made if an S60 app shop is done correctly, but the question is who will actually do it? Nokia or someone else?
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Categories: Comment, Software, Develop
Platforms: Series 60, S60 3rd Edition
Feature Discussion
Rafe
We well aware that it is complicated providing a better experience across multiple devices (and more particularly across multiple operators). However that doesn't excuse many or the problems that do exist.
One of the interesting things is that Download! eveolved out of Catalog. The original intention of Catalog was to provide a framework for others to provide app stores (catalogs). Each big content provider could have their own Catlog within Download! That distinction is much less obvious now. The categories are just confusing.
Personally I think the Catalog approach had it merits, but the framework was a bit dodgy and only the big companies could get it. Why not open up Download completely so that anyone can add their own catalog or folder. Companies could pay to be there by default, but it could also be possible to add a folder/provider (e.g. AAS could provide a collection of our favourite games or freeware). Have a standard XML files that sit on a server and gets updated - you get the idea. Maybe even do it by adding an extension to RSS?
Enfors
Hear, hear!
Excellent points, all of them. I'm sure this is one of the reasons why the state of S60 software is so appalling. Another reason, I think, is that S60 is very difficult to program in C++ for.
kontraband
its true. Download is appalling. I'd be weary of the merits tho of shipping it to a third party to manage. It does need an overhaul to make it a good portal to use for purchasing, accessing new content etc etc. It could be so much more.
Tzer2
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Excellent points, all of them. I'm sure this is one of the reasons why the state of S60 software is so appalling. Another reason, I think, is that S60 is very difficult to program in C++ for.
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The good S60 apps already exist, just take a look at AAS's review section for all the ones that score over 80%.
The problem lies entirely in the fact that there's no mechanism for getting these good apps into the hands of potential S60-owning customers. No mechanism means no sales, which means no money for more apps.
It doesn't matter how easy a platform is to program for, if you can't sell software you don't have a healthy ecosystem.
S60 owners probably don't know they own an S60 device because it's not mentioned anywhere on the packaging or interface, so they're extremely unlikely to buy S60 games from Handango etc.
The only way round this problem is an on-phone app shop, but as the article explains, Download! is not up to the job.
Tzer2
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Why not open up Download completely so that anyone can add their own catalog or folder. Companies could pay to be there by default, but it could also be possible to add a folder/provider (e.g. AAS could provide a collection of our favourite games or freeware). Have a standard XML files that sit on a server and gets updated - you get the idea. Maybe even do it by adding an extension to RSS?
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I did actually think something similar, perhaps on the same basis as the Podcasting application. To some extent you can already do this with websites, just tell people to go to mywebsite.com/myapps and they can install SIS files direct from the browser. If you advertise the URL and make it simple and memorable, it's effectively the same thing as having your own download system.
However, on reflection I personally wouldn't want to see a dedicated app shop taking all-comers with no quality control. Apart from the malware risks there's the almost as bad risk of really terrible apps.
It's like those open source music sites: there are one or two competent tracks but it's impossible to find them because they're buried under the utter rubbish produced by everyone else. They rapidly become useless because there's nothing to filter out the really bad stuff, and you soon give up hope.
As it says in the Lucky Lotto article, in the 1980s a lot of "bedroom coder" teenagers managed to write successful commercial software with no budget at all, but part of the reason it was successful was because it passed through the quality control processes of its publisher. Publishers don't just benefit creators by publishing content, they benefit customers by filtering content too (i.e. refusing to publish total dreck).
Enfors
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Originally Posted by Tzer2
The good S60 apps already exist, just take a look at AAS's review section for all the ones that score over 80%.
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I disagree. Current S60 software isn't significantly better than, for example, Palm PDA software was 10 years ago. Just look at the PIM software. Back in 1998, Palm owners complained that Palm's Todo, Calendar, Memo (notes), etc only supported 15 categories. Today, 10 years later, Nokia's S60 software still doesn't support categories at all. And that's just one example where 10 year old Palm software was better than current S60 software. There are many others.
So why is it that S60 software is so bad?
1) It is obvious to anyone who buys a PDA such as a Palm device that you can install 3rd party applications on it - after all, it is a pocket computer. This is not so for S60 devices. This means that a bigger percentage of PDA owners go looking for 3rd party software. A bigger market means that more people will make programs. This is difficult to change.
2) Palm devices were relatively easy to program for - from what I understand, a lot easier than S60 devices are (with C++). For this reason, I can't believe Nokia aren't pushing Python more than they do, since Python is a lot easier to program in than S60 C++.
3) All Palm owners knew that the place to get software was
www.palmgear.com. There is no equivalent web site for S60 that is as well known as palmgear.com was (no, handango.com is not as well known among S60 owners as palmgear.com was among Palm owners). And that is where this rant fits into the current discussion - it is too difficult for new S60 users to find 3rd party software (or to even realize that it exists). It's spread all over the web. In the case of Palm, you could find
all software on palmgear.com. That is why it would be great if Nokia's Download! service contained basically all S60 software.
lithgow
I agree that this is a serious issue: see
here for my take.
However, Tzer2 is
way off track in suggesting some form of filtering from the shop owner based on "quality" of the software. It's much better to have a good feedback/rating system to handle the problem of rubbish apps. Asking the shop owner to filter stuff based on anything other than Symbian Signed style rules is just suicide -- I thought Apple's recent experiences would have made that abundantly clear by now.
Also, I don't think Nokia are really the right people to do this. Too much of a conflict of interest.
However, Nokia do need to promote it and ship it on the firmware.
Also, not really sure that an app is completely necessary -- all the operator portals are web-based now and work fine. Having said that, though, S60 browser is pretty dire at handling this stuff, so perhaps Opera should be on the phone to run useful web-app stuff. ;) (Just joking: a widget would work fine for this sort of thing, and the S60 browser already supports this.)
Unregistered
Can someone please confirm if Ovi will eventually replace Download! for all kinds of purchases such as maps, games, music, applications, etc. on the S60 smartphones?
Tzer2
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Also, I don't think Nokia are really the right people to do this. Too much of a conflict of interest.
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How? They make the hardware but they don't make any apps (except for the built-in stuff and the occasional N-Gage game).
It's to their advantage to have lots of good apps available for sale on their phones, and to the publishers advantage to have a place to sell them. I can't see how anyone would suffer from such a situation.
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However, Nokia do need to promote it and ship it on the firmware.
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Nokia aren't going to put something in the firmware over which they have no control. That's not a realistic proposition.
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I disagree. Current S60 software isn't significantly better than, for example, Palm PDA software was 10 years ago.
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I think S60 is FAR better than Palm was 10 years ago, at least in the gaming area that I specialise in. No mobile devices had games like this 10 years ago:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/revie...ion_Review.php
I don't use PIM stuff much so I bow to your greater knowledge in that area, but there are a LOT of S60 apps out there which people would want to buy if they knew about them. A central app store that everyone knows about is vital to let people know those apps exist and let them buy them easily.
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However, Tzer2 is way off track in suggesting some form of filtering from the shop owner based on "quality" of the software. It's much better to have a good feedback/rating system to handle the problem of rubbish apps.
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If a good feedback system was possible then I might agree with you, but I don't think it is possible, at least not in a mobile app store.
Feedback systems on app download retailers are either useless because people do things like review the demo and post off topic (as on N-Gage) or no one offers any feedback (as on Handango, Clickgamer and other download retailers where very few titles have ANY feedback).
Also, the restricted nature of text entry on mobile devices discourages phone users from writing detailed reviews even if they want to.
Worst of all, feedback is wide open to abuse with the more unscrupulous authors of apps planting good reviews for themselves and bad reviews for their rivals. Numerical ratings are also open to abuse of the same kind.
Just to give an example, here's Handango's feedback for Lucky Lotto (which I can tell you right now is the worst app ever written):
Five Stars - Actually Works
A reviewer from Folkestone Kent, 2008-03-02 11:29:44
"I bought this software as a bit of fun never really appreciating its true worth. It is absolutely astounding that I have done the lottery for years with very little success but since purchasing this software I have had numerous wins very regularly. I have just received another notification today of yet another win. Just waiting for the big one now."
Five Stars - The Best Thing for Playing the Lottery!
A reviewer from Austin, TX, 2006-11-16 06:56:28
"I play the lottery often and Lucky Lotto really comes in handy. I won 82 bucks the other day using it and I just had to tell someone. It helps take all the quess work away. It's cool that my friends can also use it too by entering their birthday and getting results just for them. If you play the lottery you really need this. The win I got the other day already more than paid for itself. I'm just waiting to hit the big jackpot next :)"
Now no one is going to believe those reviews, but they show that the system is being abused.
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Asking the shop owner to filter stuff based on anything other than Symbian Signed style rules is just suicide -- I thought Apple's recent experiences would have made that abundantly clear by now.
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NO rules other than Symbian Signed? You wouldn't filter apps which don't work properly? How long do you think any shop would last if it knowingly sold products that didn't work?
I'm not suggesting that any filter would be particularly strict, and I'm certainly not suggesting an Apple-style system where useful apps are excluded for commercial reasons.
All I mean is that apps which have no possible appeal to anyone should be excluded. All I'm suggesting is that apps like this:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...lete_Pants.php
should not be included in any web shop, because there's no possible audience for them.
This filtering is vital if you want to build confidence in a shop. People expect retailers to have some kind of minimum quality control. At the moment most app shops have no real quality control and it's very difficult to distinguish the good stuff from the bad. If you buy a game at random from the S60 Games section on Handango, chances are that it will actually be some really poor Java or Flash Lite title with no redeeming qualities, which will put people off buying S60 games ever again.
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Can someone please confirm if Ovi will eventually replace Download! for all kinds of purchases such as maps, games, music, applications, etc. on the S60 smartphones?
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Ovi is just an umbrella brand for Nokia's online services, it's not a service or technology in itself. Ovi consists of many different services using many different technologies (Maps, N-Gage, Share, Files, Sync etc).
It may be that any future version of Download! will carry the Ovi branding, but that's just a question of the name.
svdwal
One of the most important aspects of the AppStore is that it allows micropayments. To give Download! the same impact it needs to be able to handle micropayments too at very low transaction costs.
Further, people are forgetting about consumer protection laws. In the EU, if a product is defective, the shop that sold you the product is liable, not the manufacturer of the product. The shop will have to reimburse you, not the manufacturer.
This means that a shop operator, if he wants to stay in business, has no option but to do some kind of quality control on the products he sells. Manufacturers might not like that, but you cannot force a shop owner to stock products that give him too much trouble.
Enfors
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Originally Posted by Tzer2
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Granted. Today's S60 games are pretty good compared to the old Palm games, but I'd say that's mostly because of superiour hardware.
Handango.com lists 2355 applications as being compatible with my N93. That's
nothing considering how many S60 devices are sold. There were easily 3 times as many applications available for Palm on palmgear.com 10 years ago. There is definitely a problem here, and it needs to be fixed ASAP. How long will it take before the iPhone (with its much smaller market share) has more software titles available than S60 does?
Tzer2
Enfors, I do totally agree S60 apps could be better and more numerous, but I think that's largely a product of S60 owners not even knowing they own a smartphone.
S60 devices aren't sold as smartphones, they're just sold as phones, and most people seem to think they can only run Java (which is reinforced by all the Java titles in Download!). There's no "S60" branding on the devices or their interface or in any of the advertising, so how could anyone be expected to know they owned such a device?
When S60 launched there were SO many companies who started out with high hopes and then abandoned it due to lack of sales. They tried, they did good stuff, but no one noticed.
The audience exists (50 million S60 devices sold a year), the developers exist (look at all the apps AAS has reviewed), but no one is putting them together.
At the end of the day it's sales that drive any business, and software development is no exception. If S60 app sales went up, there would be more money in the ecosystem, and even more and better S60 apps would be developed to try and get this extra money.
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One of the most important aspects of the AppStore is that it allows micropayments. To give Download! the same impact it needs to be able to handle micropayments too at very low transaction costs.
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The N-Gage app also allows micropayments, the games cost 7 to 10 euros to buy in full, but you can rent them for 1 or 2 euros per day so they can clearly handle very small amounts of money. These can be charged straight to the phone bill so there's no need to feed any credit card info (though you can use a card if you prefer). There's also talk of having paper vouchers which could be bought with cash, similar to those sold for Skype, Habbo etc.
Nokia (or a third party) could use similar payment options in a more general app shop.
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Further, people are forgetting about consumer protection laws. In the EU, if a product is defective, the shop that sold you the product is liable, not the manufacturer of the product. The shop will have to reimburse you, not the manufacturer.
This means that a shop operator, if he wants to stay in business, has no option but to do some kind of quality control on the products he sells. Manufacturers might not like that, but you cannot force a shop owner to stock products that give him too much trouble.
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That's a good point, and even without consumer laws people will naturally avoid a shop that seems to stock very poor products.
On the other hand, consumer laws only require apps to work as advertised, so apps like Lucky Lotto may get away with being totally awful because they promise so little.
bartmanekul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzer2
Enfors, I do totally agree S60 apps could be better and more numerous, but I think that's largely a product of S60 owners not even knowing they own a smartphone.
S60 devices aren't sold as smartphones, they're just sold as phones, and most people seem to think they can only run Java (which is reinforced by all the Java titles in Download!). There's no "S60" branding on the devices or their interface or in any of the advertising, so how could anyone be expected to know they owned such a device?
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And theres the main problem, that and no central point for applications (I dont count download!, its simply too dire).
The N95 rightly got some good advertising. But I never saw anything about 3rd party applications.
Nokia always puts the onus on the handsets themselves, never seemingly trying to make the general masses aware that you can install other things on it.
A lot of people dissapointed with Nokia Maps want to return the handset, as they are not aware you can get other GPS programs for it.
Nokia should pump out some heavy advertising showing a few choice applications you can install.
However, it would be a good idea to make somewhere central to direct people to first...
To grab the general masses, you need to make it easy. Really easy.
In fact, the mechanics are almost there. PC suite detects what phone you have connected with.
Surely its only a small step from there to show a nice, easy navigatable UI of all the apps that apply to your phone. And they could also do this with S40 phones, which I understand have a much bigger userbase.
IMO, the very simple act of adding a leaflet/slip of paper in every handset box saying something like 'Go to
www.nokia Apps.com for games, applications and more.' would increase awareness tenfold.
Rather than just having 'supports Java xx applications and S60 V3 apps' buried in the manual.
Enfors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzer2
Enfors, I do totally agree S60 apps could be better and more numerous, but I think that's largely a product of S60 owners not even knowing they own a smartphone.
S60 devices aren't sold as smartphones, they're just sold as phones, and most people seem to think they can only run Java (which is reinforced by all the Java titles in Download!). There's no "S60" branding on the devices or their interface or in any of the advertising, so how could anyone be expected to know they owned such a device?
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I think that's a very good point. Nokia needs to change this, but I don't think they won't. Why? Well...
I used to listen to the Voice of S60 podcast. The host usually interviewed prominent Nokia employees. He always used to ask them what applications they had installed on their phones.
Most of them said none. They were content with the software that came preinstalled on their phones. If even prominent Nokia employees don't run 3rd party applications on their phones, there's little hope that they'll realize that they need to do something to educate their users that their phones support 3rd party applications.
I think this is because Nokia comes from a "phone" background, as opposed to a "PDA" background. They don't realize the value of the PDA / pocket computer aspect of their own smartphones.
svdwal
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Originally Posted by Tzer2
That's a good point, and even without consumer laws people will naturally avoid a shop that seems to stock very poor products.
On the other hand, consumer laws only require apps to work as advertised, so apps like Lucky Lotto may get away with being totally awful because they promise so little.
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A shop operator, especially one with a reputation to protect, is unlikely to offer software of low quality, whether real or perceived. Nokia (and Apple) are high-value brands with a stock value to match. You cannot expect them to dilute that brand value.
Then there's the other developers with a stake in the success of an AppStore. If the built-in store gets a reputation for selling complete and utter rubbish, everybody suffers.
Unregistered
:Another reason, I think, is that S60 is very difficult to program in C++ for.
That's nonsense. Symbian and S60 programming is a doddle. It's different but not difficlut.
Enfors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
:Another reason, I think, is that S60 is very difficult to program in C++ for.
That's nonsense. Symbian and S60 programming is a doddle. It's different but not difficlut.
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You're the first one I've ever heard say that. On the other hand, I've heard plenty of people saying S60 C++ is a mess.
ltv
[IMO, the very simple act of adding a leaflet/slip of paper in every handset box saying something like 'Go to
www.nokia Apps.com for games, applications and more.' would increase awareness tenfold.]
When the SE P1i was released in India (I don't know about other places), it was advertised in newspapers by saying that one could download about 100 USD worth of applications free of cost from the p1-choice.com site.
And they made good on their promise too....the site has some high quality apps. I could download pretty much everything that I really needed without spending anything extra other that buying the phone.
Also 100 USD is quite sufficient (for me)....the total cost of third party apps that I have bought for my current e90 would also be in the same range (~120 USD).
Don't think that offer is still on , though.
I also remember that there was a link in the p1i's standby menu - "more apps and downloads" or something like that.
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Can someone please confirm if Ovi will eventually replace Download! for all kinds of purchases such as maps, games, music, applications, etc. on the S60 smartphones?
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I asked (Ovi) about this and they just pointed me to these two links:
Nokia Software Market
http://www.softwaremarket.nokia.com/
Nokia Download Store
http://www.download.nokia.com/
When I then asked about at least providing those links on the Ovi site, the response was that they are already on the Nokia site.
Jejoma
I must confess to being slighly confused. I recently purchased my first Nokia, an E71, and under Download! I only see the following folders:
Applications, News&Info, Office, Communication and Freetime.
None of the folders have much in them and I rarely check them. Does this article refer to the N-series only?
ltv
This article set me thinking and I was trying to list the ways in which Nokia tries to promote the fact that more applications can be installed on an S60 phone. Well, there is
a) the download applications menu option
b) the download applications bookmark in the browser
c) software market bookmark in the browser
d) pre-installed applications
e) download!
On the web , there is
a) the download store
b) mosh
c) beta labs
d) support pages
It is not that they aren't doing enough to advertise the phone's capabilities.
But as this article points out, it feels almost criminal not to have enough applications backing all this advertising.
For example, when I launch the download applications bookmark, I am taken to a page that lists only Wellness Diary and Sports Tracker. Surely only beta labs itself has more graduates than those two.
svdwal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
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The Download Store actually looks very good (at least from a Mac). The only problem I can see is that there isn't a price anywhere to be seen, and there are some devices missing (like the E90).
Not showing any prices isn't a good idea, I think. Tell people they can pay for the app by SMS, through their phone bill, or Paypal or by credit card, or whatever. Or tell people that the app is free of charge. The message I get from the Nokia Download site is: "if you have to ask for the price, you cannot afford it".
bartmanekul
Quote:
Originally Posted by svdwal
The Download Store actually looks very good (at least from a Mac). The only problem I can see is that there isn't a price anywhere to be seen, and there are some devices missing (like the E90).
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And, theres only 2 main categories - applications, and games.
And considering theres no search function...browsing is a nightmare.
developer-cpp
Download! is a shame for Nokia and a pain for us, the unfortunate users of N series or E series that didn't know when we made the choice about the release of Apples's iPhone 3G and Google's Android G1 which have AppStore and Android Market.
Download! should have been an application like AppStore long time ago.
Nokia just looses the market and the potential new customers.
Yes, the smart-phones are not anymore only phones and people want more from them, but Nokia just does not undesrtand or it is very slow in its movements... like a big-fat corporation with no people like Steve Jobs or Google founders in their management. Nokia looks like a no brainer company. Looks stumbling, groggy, with no clear direction and very confused. I'm writing this maybe some fat-brain manager from Nokia reads this and speeds up something...
I knew about MOSH, I know about SoftwareMarket.nokia.com and about Download.Nokia.com and I know about the S60.com selection of free applications... BUT
A Central place application with an Icon on the main desktop (like "Download!" icon currently is, but unfortunately with no good application when you click it) is more than necessary.
The Download folders have just few (under 5) applications in each section and the content differs on phones and countries.
Here, in North America, there is now folder/section "What's new" or "Try for free"...
And to have a selection of software based on each country, based on each N or E phone is equal dumbness IMHO because too much effort is waisted. Why not to make a Download! or Ovi download! application generally available and people can go themselves to the categories they want?
A system of not registered user rating (1 to 5) and/or comments is absolutelly a necessity.
Let the user to the filtering, not the company (except applications that are illegal).
Why Nokia does not say when or if we will benefit from such a simple and necessary application?
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