A letter from the iPhone world
Published by Steve Litchfield at 18:58 BST, July 6th 2008
Last week I received a long and polite, yet hard hitting, email from an iPhone fan, Nikolay Andreev, questioning some of my statements and opinions in terms of device advocacy, specifically me quoting the Nokia N95 8GB and E71 as being better than the iPhone 3G. Now, these sorts of debates and opinions are very common in the computer world, but in this case I thought the points that Nikolay raised were interesting and worthy of me taking time to respond publicly, for general interest. Although this is 'All About Symbian' and opinions and comments may well be a little skewed towards the Nokias, I'd still welcome comments about my comments.... if you see what I mean!
Nikolay: "I will assume that your smartphone top 5 is just for the English typing world. I mean, come on! How are you going to type on Japanese or Chinese or any outer language efficiently on N95?"
Yes, most of the articles on All About Symbian and the video clips in The Smartphones Show are all focussed on the English-speaking (and typing) world, but then the site and the show are IN English! So it's not a bad assumption. Japanese and Chinese characters are a nightmare to input (as) efficiently on any phone or smartphone. [side note to readers - if anyone has enough experience to pen a piece about how Oriental languages are handled on S60 phones in China and Japan, then please get in touch!]
"You said that smartphones are more that just features, but at the end [of show 62] you can't help yourself boasting all those N95 features as if that is the most important thing a user should look for."
Yes, I firmly hold to the opinion that, beyond a certain point, the creep in features drops off and it's more about how you use a device and what you install on it. But the point is that the Nokia N95 represents the shoulder of the function curve. Anything beneath it has some catching up to do in terms of camera functions, TV out, GPS, UPnP, and so on. So I'm quite justified in listing the N95 8GB's attributes (as I did in Smartphones Show 62), since it's one of the first in a flood of devices which will be 'good enough'. If I do a 'Top 5 smartphones' in a year's time, I expect the differences between devices will be far more about services, interface and compatibility than about mere specifications.
"Where is the value for money comparison? Prove that a N95 is cheaper than the iPhone if the a person uses the same Internet/GPS/wifi service over the course of two years. It's nice that the N95 has great specs but sending a 5mp picture over the net consumes more traffic, which if you do not have a monthly plan is very costly."
Oh, absolutely, value for money in the long term can depend on how you use a device. But the iPhone 3G costs in the order of £1000 over 18 months. The current Nokia flagship, the N95 8GB, can be gotten for free on the same 18 month contract - even after adding on a data package per month, we're still only looking at £650 or so, quite a large saving over the iPhone.
Sending large images over the net is a good example of something that should be saved for Wi-Fi though, unless you're in a very fast 3.5G area. I'd mention sending videos as well, but I know the iPhone can't take video clips - at least not yet [gentle prod]...
"Then there is the camera again. I know that, quality taken alone, N95 takes a lot better pictures that the iPhone, but I have yet to see you comment yet as to why the iPhone is the #1 device to be used with Flickr, topping the N95. Clearly there is more to taking pictures than optics, flash and megapixels. And last I heard there are still a lot more N95s out there than iPhones. So how can you make the N95 as a better camera phone when the statistics show that it isn't. I am sure you have also heard of the magapixel myth but your statements that a phone should have a 5mp camera just because it is the middle of 2008 kind of makes me doubt that."
The iPhone has certainly been dicing with the N95 at the top of the Flickr tree in recent months. Here's the very latest chart:
So, without meaning to be too picky, the iPhone isn't actually top of the Flickr stats at the moment. And the numbers of iPhones and N95s aren't that different. iPhones are heading up towards ten million and N95s are somewhat over that figure, but they're of the same order. And yet, despite the iPhone coming with flat rate data, implying that all uploads are free, the N95 - with downloads (potentially) costing the earth - still manages to keep ahead. I think that answers your question somewhat satisfactorily?
In answer to the megapixel myth point - yes, I fully appreciate that more megapixels aren't necessarily better - after all, look at the appalling results from the LG Viewty's 5mp cam, but more is usually better. And especially so when backed up by the professional glass optics in the likes of the N95. In decent lighting, the N95 (and N82) can take stunning photos.
As a 2008 baseline, I'd say that any flagship smartphone needs an auto-focus 3mp or 5mp camera, backed up with professional optics/sensor. Less than that simply isn't good enough.
"So the N95 is the most feature-full smartphone? If that was the case then N95 could be used for more things than the iPhone right? No. The better camera of the N95 does make better pictures and captures video but the iPhone integration of features is so much more powerful."
I'll gladly admit that Apple's UI and general integration of features is better than Nokia's in S60. While beginners will warm to the iPhone UI much more quickly, the difference is marginal in the case of experienced users. And I currently use my Nokia N95 to replace 9 other standalone bits of equipment, plus I have over 30 third party applications installed, to help perform other tasks. I think you'll find that the standard iPhone at least won't get anywhere near this level of 'use'. The iPhone 3G, with its AppStore, has huge potential, of course, and I'd expect much more direct competition.
"The N95 also can never be truly adapted for use by old people or the military in Iraq or as a blogging platform or in the Universities or countless other scenarios where a big screen device with no moving parts and multi touch interface is needed."
I don't doubt that there are scenarios where a big touchscreen is preferable to a smaller-screened, button-driven device. However, I'd argue that there are actually more real world scenarios where the latter is more suitable. Do you really want to use both hands to operate a handheld device all the time? There's plenty of room in the market for both device styles, of course. One size definitely doesn't fit all!
"and let's not forget the most advanced operating system in the world, and one which is a lot more practical."
Without wishing to go down the platform wars route, Symbian OS has had 3.5G data and GPS support for two years - OS X on the iPhone has only just acquired both. Symbian OS is now working at LTE speeds in the labs, with its Freeway technology. I'd say Symbian OS is 2 years ahead in terms of raw smartphone OS, while Apple are a year ahead in terms of UI design.
"I have also not seen you comment on services like Mobile Me or the AppStore. Does N95 have access to such and if it does how do they compare. They are an integral part of the full iPhone experience. You compare the camera, why not compare the services. Or is it again just about specs on the paper?"
Very good point and this is something I'll be able to compare directly once Apple's AppStore has launched. Nokia do have similar systems, with My Nokia Backup and Download!, but neither are as comprehensive as Apple's solution claims to be. Watch this space!
"It's the same with many Windows users who do not understand why Macs are so much better untill for some reason they end with with one for a week or two and can never get back to the PC."
Ah, you've hit a nerve here. Without wishing to stray away from AAS's core themes here, let me just say that I've been trying a Mac Mini with Leopard for the last week. And I was very glad indeed to get back to my Windows Vista laptop. I can see that a Mac is perfect for a 'consumer' and/or a computing beginner, but for someone who's tech savvy and wants to use specialist apps and get lots of work done, Windows applications and file systems knock OS X into a cocked hat. Sorry.
"My suggestion for you Steve is not to judge devices you have not had the time or money to put to test without the burden of years of being used to Symbian operating systems. The iPhone is coupled together with an entirely different philosophy of use that make you do more in a different way. You cannot appreciate it unless you had weeks if not months to get use to it. And only then can you ask youself the question which device gives me more more value for my money. Otherwise you are just comparing specs and those are only good if you have the same OS and imput method. Between N95 and iPhone you have neither in common."
Fair comment, although I'd argue that I've spent quite long enough with both iPhone and Windows Mobile devices to get to know how they tick - I think you underestimate me! An N95 and Apple iPhone are certainly very different devices, approaching many functions from different directions.
"You are missing also important things like being able to operate the device in 3G mode anywhere in the world. N95 cannot do that. Not to mention that iPhone supports worldwide 3 band 7.2 HSPDA while the N95 is 1,2 band 3.6 HSPDA. Who's got the better 3G now? Even the N96 cannot match the iPhone 3G specs."
You're being unfair here in that, at the time of writing, the iPhone 3G isn't even available 8-) Let's compare 3G support across the board in six months time, ok?
"Also, how can you recommend a device for which Nokia itself has showcased a successor so many months ago?"
This is how Nokia tend to work, but it doesn't seem to harm sales, since most sales are to non-geeks and who aren't so acutely aware of what's coming up. 8-) Besides, from what I've seen of the N96's styling, there's perhaps a case that it might not suit everyone?
"And just how important is the criteria ease of use for you?"
Quite important, although bear in mind that readers of AAS and viewers of The Smartphones Show tend to be quite technical - interfaces designed for a grandparent aren't really that appealing! Most interest seems to be in the highly technical devices like the HTC TyTN II and Nokia E90.
"I never looked into the iPhone manual that it came with. There is a great value in the fact that every button on the screen has its function written on it and does nothing more."
Well yes, but then the iPhone can't do very much, so you can fit everything on one screen. The 3G model with AppStore will start hitting the same UI compromises that Nokia was hitting 4 years ago. No doubt Apple will solve the problem more elegantly, but ease of use versus functionality remains a perennial compromise.
"And Nokia E71 placed as a better device that iPhone. Just try marketing that statement in any non English typing country and you will get laughed at. If you don't have multimedia and the you cannot type native characters, what is this device good for?"
The E71 comes with lots of different European, non-English keyboard layouts, I believe. No idea what happens in China though 8-)
"Come on Steve! Try comparing E71 with Blackberry Bold or iPhone with Samsung Instinct! Or what about how the HTC Touch beat the Touch Diamond in your top 5! Was it value for money?"
E71 vs the Bold and iPhone vs Omnia or Instinct are certainly comparisons I'll be looking into. I have both Touch and Touch Diamond here - tough call, but I don't really like TouchFlo 3D very much and the Diamond currently has a price premium, whereas you can pick up a Touch on eBay for a song. [Sorry, AAS, we're getting too far off topic here!]
Thanks for the letter Nikolay, I hope my answer via AAS makes sense to you and all the other phone/smartphone enthusiasts out there!
Steve Litchfield, All About Symbian, 8 July 2008
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Categories: Comment, Hardware
Platforms: General, S60 3rd Edition
Feature Discussion
Unregistered
Was that a sad piece to read. The Iphone crowd can coo all it wants, and frankly I can't be bothered. I will stick with S60 for now. One handed devices trumps all in usability, even if the UI is a bit cluttered.
chortik
that's a fair response, aside from your comment on osx being an os for beginners. it is unparalleled as a development platform. unix underpinnings come in useful on a daily basis. the filesystem is far more powerful than fat32/ntfs. let's not forget that windows until recently could not handle files larger than 4gb.
Unregistered
I have the feeling that the statement about entering Chinese and Japanese on a N95 is just a red herring in an attempt to make a touch screen seem superior w/o giving any details. On a PC with Windows XP Home or Professional (non-Chinese version is good enough) a latin keyboard is enough to enter Chinese. You don't need a touch screen like the one used on a tablet PC for that.
So why should this be that different on a phone? If it is really so much different, why didn't Nokolay explain the differences in a few words or a video? Did he just write it to make the touch screen seem more capable? One advantage of a touch screen, though, is the ability (at least at the hardware level) to just draw the characters on the screen. The question here is how convenient that is for real world use with fingers on something like the iPhone.
BTW: Does a software exist to compose and read Chinese SMS on a European S60 phone? Would be a good addition for my phone.
And regarding HSDPA speed and support for different frequencies: At least the networks in my home country charge alot of money when travelling outside Europe. And this cost will make me use data less then and for that EDGE and even GPRS will be good enough. Keeps my bank account in the propper territory so could even be counted as positive for private use. Even if I am inside my home country, I am content with 3.6 MBit/second as that is already faster than my Internet connection at home. Having HSUPA would be far more useful to me as that would speed up uploads.
bartmanekul
Im suprised that Steve did this at all. It was blatently a fanboy rant, just a little more polite than usual.
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"It's the same with many Windows users who do not understand why Macs are so much better untill for some reason they end with with one for a week or two and can never get back to the PC."
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And thats the proof. The Windows V Mac/OSX argument has been going on for years, and the obvious answer is that it depends on the user. Every single non fanboy has known that for ages.
And yet the classic 'Macs are so much better' line comes from Nikolay.
Unregistered
omg..i love ur comments steve!
it's like..u fought back real good there..
i'm so agree with u!
heavy users will have to stay with Windows or Symbian! there are far more various things u can do with it than Mac OS!
jpwbamber
Simplified Chinese characters as used in PRC are quite easy to input using a mobile keyboard such as that on the N95.
In PRC children learn Pinyin and Chinese characters in parallel from nursery school onwards. Pinyin is the way to enter Chinese characters using phonetic roman characters.
In China you see the same number of teenagers sending Chinese character text messages from usual looking phones. They enter the message in Pinyin and it appears and is sent as Chinese characters.
Dr Tran
"magapixel myth" Can't this guy use spell check?
Sebhelyesfarok
Unnecessary to reply to brainwashed Mactards/iTards, it's like arguing with Jehovah's Witnesses. Apple always does everything right, just the required functions, never less, never more, it's just perfect. If something's not there, you don't need it.
buster
I think the real comparison is going to be when the Appstore launches, and the iPhone and iPod Touch finally get some real applications.
As it stands, there is so much that the iPhone CAN'T do, that what it can do pales into insignificance (certainly for power users, which is maybe not the iPhone's target market). However the iPhone does what it does extremely well...
habdelra
I'm a software developer, and something I find fascinating about the iPhone isn't necessarily the phone at all, but rather the iPhone SDK and the App Store distribution model.
I've recently downloaded the SDK and have started to create my first iPhone applications. I'm annoyed that the development environment only works under OS X Leopard, but delighted with the IDE and instrumentation tools. Cocoa is a pretty easy framework to pickup if you have had OOD experience. I was productive within a couple days of downloading the SDK. One thing that i'm really happy about is the lack of variety among the handsets what support Cocoa Touch (just the original iPhone and iPhone 3G), that is a really big win for developers.
I think it is really quite revolutionary that Apple is opening up the App Store to anyone that wants to pay $99/year for a developer subscription. Immediately you have a venue with which to sell your software, and the commission that apple takes (30% or free if you give your apps away for free) seems reasonable given all the infrastructure that they have built (iTunes). With apple projecting to sell 10 million units by the end of the year, that is a pretty large audience for the software that i'm developing.
It would be cool if nokia could come up with a similar model for symbian applications (perhaps open up Download! app to symbian developers)
puterman
Saying that MacOS is just better for beginners is really stretching it. Of course it's easier to do real work on the platform you're used to. To me, a Linux user since more than ten years, Windows is very difficult to work with. I've been using Windows at work for years, and it just doesn't get much easier. It all depends on what you're used to and what sorts of things you do.
Unregistered
i am a mac user (fan). I have tried iphone twice. And yet last week i traded my second iphone for e71 which together with BluePhoneElite2 is better integrated with mac - ironically. And it syncs wirelessly via iSync. Iphone is inconvenient for a business user - try typing in a car (while being passenger) and you will understand. It will eventually be great but not yet ! I have done a review in latvian here :
http://boo.tunt.lv/?zoomzina=901Solnyshok
I am also surprised that you took to answer this rant, Steve. Seems typical iphonniac attack to me.
Nokia is a moving target, and Apple is slower than I thought previously. First iPhone was years behind Nokia when it appeared on the market. Now, yet-to-be sold iP3G is about just 20 months behind Nokia. With such speed, we will see a truly revolutionary iPhone in 3 years only. (if, and only if, Nokia screws up big time). By that time there will be 5 or 6 generations of iPhones to support in SDK, all with different specs, speeds, and limitations. Goodluck apple.
Sick Spider
How come every time iPhone users go back to the UI?, we get it!, its pretty, yes, apple got THAT right.
I think thats about it, no usability.
I really don't get it, they ad this as a full mp3 player with NO bluetooth stereo support, you got to be kidding.... (only one example).
Steve,
Great reply :) BTW.
Unregistered
Duh! If you don't want a 5MP pic to send over the network then set a lower res! It's not compulsory to use the full 5MP.
OS/X and linux are impossible to use for me, because important software that I use is only available on Windows. This applies to several titles I use. Macs are extremely easy to use, linux can be easy to use, Windows is easy to use. How easy does it need to be? Same thing applies to the phones. Nobody can honestly say any of these phones are hard to use? I've never seen a manual either, not for any phone.
But in the end the thought that remains with me is: what's the point of all this? Get the phone you prefer and get on with it. No need to tell everyone else what they should be using. Should we all drive the same car? The automotive equivalent of the iPhone is surely the new age VW Beetle. No thanks. I'll stay with my Lexus equivalent thanks.
Jaggz
Good work Steve - politely and correctly answered. Bar the bit about Mac OSX.
I have no problem what-so-ever with fanboys, generally speaking I think they do more good than harm. They add spice to what can at times be a very dry subject. Listen to what the fanboys say, read the advice of the paid experts, watch the Smartphones Show, try the device for yourself and make an informed decision. It all goes into the mix right?
The iPhone is not perfect, but neither is the N95... but I have higher hopes for the iPhone as a platform, not least because it commands almost the entire focus of perhaps the innovative company on the planet.
Unregistered
yeah, who would want a MP3 player with no bluetooth. Oh, that's right -- just about 100 million of them, or about 90% of all MPS3 players sold.
AVR4000
Thanks for an interesting answer to the email about the iPhone.
Iīm using Mac OS X and Windows on my computer but the iPhone is a very uninteresting product for me. My E90 is a far more powerful device and now when hacking is available thereīs even more potential in it. I can only see some UI elements in the iPhone as a good part and the developer tools. But as a powerful smartphone with ability to replace a laptop it has several shortcomings. Platforms as Windows Mobile and Symbian has far more power.
I think Apple has a problem. They sell laptops and a really powerful iPhone Pro with fully open OS and a qwerty keyboard (sliding) and a 5 MP camera with good optics and sensor paired with decent video recording would be the same as competition to the laptop line. I.e users choose the iPhone Pro instead of a laptop on the same way I prefer the E90 or other devices in that class over a clumsy laptop.
Apple needs to decide if a future iPhone should compete with the MacBook or if it will remain as an "iPod Phone" as todays two models.
The argument "lack of functions mean usability and a better device for the user" is not valid. Itīs better to equip a device with two different UIs. A simplified one for some users and a fully open UI for the power users. Thatīs the only way in some devices.
iPhone today is more of an iPod Phone instead of a device who can compete with a modern Symbian OS or Windows Mobile based device as a device who can replace a laptop. Apple needs to change that if the iPhone has a chance to be a good device for the power users.
I require this specs of an iPhone ready to replace N95, E90, HTC Touch Pro etc:
*4 inch screen with 800 x 480 pixels res
*Qwerty keyboard on a slider as the HTC Touch Pro
*3,2-5 MP camera
*Mac OS X Mobile with a Finder in the same style as the desktop OS combined with todays iPhone UI (for those who prefer it)
*Fully open platform
*Good Office apps with "desktop class functions" (as the SoftMaker Office on the WM)
*Good PDF readers and the ability to create and edit PDFs on the device
*An e-mail client with support for HTML, BlackBerry, push mail, Active Sync and so on
*A powerful PIM suite onboard
Etc
When this iPhone Pro arrives I will gladly purchase one. But even better specs would be nice, this is the minimum specs for a device who claims to be "the best smartphone" as the fans says.
Tzer2
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But in the end the thought that remains with me is: what's the point of all this? Get the phone you prefer and get on with it. No need to tell everyone else what they should be using. Should we all drive the same car?
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Absolutely, that is exactly the right attitude to take.
If there's one lesson to be drawn from the incredible explosion in phone sales over the last few years, it's that there's no such thing as a perfect phone for everyone.
Phone sales aren't concentrated in one or two models, they're spread across many dozens, because tastes and needs are so diverse.
Someone buying a 50 euro phone clearly isn't after the same device as someone buying a 500 euro phone, yet they're both phone sales.
And even when the price is the same, the device can be very different (compare the Nokia 8800 to the E90 for example).
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yeah, who would want a MP3 player with no bluetooth. Oh, that's right -- just about 100 million of them, or about 90% of all MPS3 players sold.
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But there have been BILLIONS of phones sold over the same period, and sales are growing all the time.
Nokia alone sells over 400 million phones EVERY YEAR, and they have a minority of the market.
Sales of MP3 players are insignificant compared to phone sales, they might as well not exist. Far more people now buy music-compatible phones than dedicated music players, that's why Apple entered the phone business because they didn't want to end up extinct.
But most people aren't buying mobile devices as music players, it's the phone element that's by far the most important. Most people go into the shop for a phone, and then ask the salesperson what else they can get to go with it, like the optional extras on a car.
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The E71 comes with lots of different European, non-English keyboard layouts, I believe.
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It does indeed, I'm in Finland and can confirm there are Scandinavian characters on the E71s on sale in Scandinavia.
It's the same on all QWERTY (and AZERTY etc) devices from major manufacturers, regional keyboard versions have been part of the IT world for decades now (and decades before that on typewriters).
It just shows how little research the original e-mail author did when they assumed the keyboards would be the same everywhere. It's like they just wrote the first thing that came into their head.
predicaments
I worship Steve Jobs and Apple. I love their products and I spent all day on my macs working, manipulating images, creating music...and so on.
Apple are brilliant at their operating system AND design and simplicity yet power. My iMac is a fantastic piece of kit for the money and my trusty 2 year old MacBook (the black one) is an absolute workhorse even now.
But as much as I'm a die hard apple fan (since owning a 'classic' years ago) I've never understood why they didn't actually partner with Nokia...who are in some ways the 'apple' of the mobile phone world.
The iPhone is dreadful. Yes, the UI is fantastic, the screen and resolution awesome. But that's about it. The camera is a joke, typing messages is frustrating and slow (Apple are apparently investigating ways to incorporate a keyboard now) and the lack of decent navigation, video and MMS basically means the phone is a glorified ipod.
Trust me, I do ANYTHING to buy the next apple product and I LOVE mobile phones. I watch every Keynote on the net and DAILY visit macrumour sites...but the iPhone is THAT bad that I refuse to be a convert. My N95 8GB trounces the iphone in so many departments - yes it's a little crude and sometimes a little slow but as an allrounder it's unbeaten.
Sorry Apple - you're going to have to try harder.
AVR4000
The focus on the UI is interesting. In my opinion the S60 works on a good way but I had preferred a more S80/Hildon styled UI on the E90. A good thing with S60 is the ability to organize the menu layout on itīs own way with own folders and so on. A minimum requirement for me in a good UI is the ability to create folders, move apps into those and so on. The most logical improvement is to integrate the file manager and the app manager into one. I.e some folders contains files and other apps or a mix of both on the same way as on a computer.
A dumb locked UI with static elements is not a good thing. But it can be a default UI in some models (but a simple setting unlocks the whole thing as I wrote before).
The arguments about the iPhone UI seems to describe it as a simplified one with the lack of functions as the good thing. I.e a device such as the N95 has too many options but iPhone is better because it lacks them. More options and functions is a problem but iPhone saves the users from that.;)
I have problems to see the good things in an expensive device with limitations in the UI or OS if there is a better one available. The debates about the iPhone has convinced me: itīs not a device for me. And I think itīs stupid to require "iPhones" from every other manufacturer and say every device with a big touch screen is an "iPhone copy".
The "iPhone concept" was introduced with devices like Motorola A920/925, Neonode N1 (first device with finger input instead of stylus) and Nokia 7700/7710 to name a few.
Unregistered
In my opinion everything comes to usability. As you can't compare non smartphones with n95 etc., it is not fair to do it between iphone first edition and n- or e-series. But as all phones evolve and the key features became similar, the best one will be speedy, comfort, ui friendly AND able to install necessary 3rd party programs. In this case for now it is or latest WM smartphones or 3G iphone, which beside camera, can do anything symbian phones can.
Unregistered
so nikolay...any quick rebuttal, please? c'mon this is becoming interesting...
chilko
is nikolay is a bulgarian?
Unregistered
Some things never change. There is nothing more annoying than people forcing you to love something. You want an iphone? Get an iphone!! Use the iphone, tap on the screen, and enjoy the interface. Don't pick on me and tell me I should get one too. I am not cool enough to own an Iphone and I will stick to my E70 and E90.
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