All About Symbian - Symbian, Nokia and S60 unwrapped.
How many phones per day does it take to change the media?
Published by Ewan Spence at 15:24 UTC, September 7th 2010
One of the things that first aiders are taught is triage – the initial assessment of patients to work out which ones have a genuine problem and need to be looked at as soon as possible; and which ones are shouting loudly because they’ve broken a nail. In the online noise of social media and blogging, that triage skill is just as vital, because the companies making the loudest noises aren’t always telling the whole story.
I’m looking specifically at the recent “we’re bigger than you, oh no you’re not” between Google’s Android OS and Apple’s iOS. You might recall this all started with Android shouting about their 200,000 new Android handsets going into circulation each day. Apple, at their recent iPod event, trumped that and said they were on 230,000 a day, and Google must be doing some creative counting of upgrades to reach their number.
And this tit-for-tat is happily taking up all the time and ink (ahem) in the blogosphere. Are they forgetting basic triage? Who’s not making all the noise? Who's sitting quietly in the corner not being noticed?
I’ll tell you who. Symbian.
Put aside the numbers from Mountain View and Cupertino, because Southwark is well ahead, with a shade less than 300,000 Symbian phones per day being shifted towards consumers (and the numbers have been close to that for many, many quarters, this isn't a recent jump).
Even with roughly 10% of that number as DoCoMo devices, that leaves S60 on 270,000 daily units, well ahead of the two American rivals. But putting this number into an article that’s trying to pitch Android and iOs as the only two candidates would lead to a lot of explanation and isn’t the easiest sell to a commissioning editor.
Either that or Symbian is powering a new class of “bad smartphone” that the industry is trying to ignore in favour of “good smartphones” that people don’t mind talking about. You know, the good smartphones that are really expensive, or require a £50 a month contract for two years, which means you have to keep mentally justifying the purchase.
As opposed to the "bad" smartphones that are available at a reasonable cost to pretty much anyone who can pick up a Pay as you Go phone – the flexible Nokia 5230 has sold upwards of ten million handsets and carries the majority of features you'd expect from a smartphone. The 5230 has as much right to be regarded as a competent smartphone as the mid range Android devices and arguably the 3G and 3GS iPhones.
And if the iPod Touch can be a great iOS device without a cellular chip at all, the 5230 can certainly manage to be a smartphone with cellular but without Wi-fi. Given that I’ve used those on a number of trips now, please don’t bring it up as a problem for real world usage!
So why does it matter? For two reasons – and the first is one we’ve touched on a lot, and that’s the PR war. Nokia is being shouted out of the media conversation, and while the triage analogy is nice, they do need to get a bit more aggressive. Perhaps the powder is being left dry for a big Nokia World announcement about numbers and they think they can get better effect bunching the announcement in with a handset launch or two. I’m not sure that’s the right strategy but it’s far from in appropriate if that’s what is going on.
The more important reason is simply the volume fight. How many handsets are out there, how many devices can programmers and developers reach, how many screens can content producers and advertisers access?
Even if you put aside the heritage of Symbian and the vast numbers of compatible S60 3rd Edition devices already out there, even if you look at just the S60 5th Edition devices right now; even if you were to reset the numbers and start each platform from zero… each week there are 200,000 more Symbian phones out there than iPhones, and almost 500,000 more than Android.
Symbian is not being caught and left behind, in terms of raw numbers they are pulling away by a significant percentage every single day.
Anything you can do, I can do better...
Yet again it feels like the American media (and to a certain extent the UK media) focusing on the shiniest objects that are shouting the loudest about how well they think they are doing, while the rest of the world knows a secret that is still to be realised by certain commentators.
And Nokia are set to kick things into a higher gear with next week’s Nokia World. Left behind? Last chance? Death throes?
Think again.
-- Ewan Spence, Sept 2010.
News Discussion
Jimmy1
Well, this actually says more about Nokia's ability to market and advertise. They're not the only ones who are awful at it; so is Microsoft.
Both companies are sort of like that balding older relative, who dresses up in their polyester leisure suit and gold chains, and strives to be "hip", "with it" and "into what the kids are doing these days". It's painful to watch.
Both companies are sort of like that balding older relative, who dresses up in their polyester leisure suit and gold chains, and strives to be "hip", "with it" and "into what the kids are doing these days". It's painful to watch.
the_accidental
Well, fair play for putting the numbers in context, however there's a different side to this.
I don't have the numbers to hand (I'll leave them for a journalist to dig out ;-) ) but I think the number show despite the lower volume that iPhones are more profitable for apple than symbian phones for nokia.
However, I do wonder what profit google sees from Android?
So which numbers matter? Number of devices? Market share? Profit? And who do they matter to? These are the interesting questions...
I don't have the numbers to hand (I'll leave them for a journalist to dig out ;-) ) but I think the number show despite the lower volume that iPhones are more profitable for apple than symbian phones for nokia.
However, I do wonder what profit google sees from Android?
So which numbers matter? Number of devices? Market share? Profit? And who do they matter to? These are the interesting questions...
Unregistered
Market-share matters to iPhone users until you mention it is going down. Then they move the goalposts and claim profits matter more.
richardyates
Has Nokia become British now? I could have sworn they didn't come from Southwark
MemphisX
Very well said Ewan. I couldn't put it better...
Nice point...even for someone anonymous ;) but I will change the word users...to hardcore fanboys. Not every iPhone user really cares about how well their device sells!
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
Market-share matters to iPhone users until you mention it is going down. Then they move the goalposts and claim profits matter more.
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UKJeeper
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Originally Posted by richardyates
Has Nokia become British now? I could have sworn they didn't come from Southwark
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Nokia's in Finland IIRC. SYMBIAN (which is whom Steve is referencing) on the other hand...
1 Boundary Row
Southwark
London SE1 8HP
United Kingdom
Unregistered
When Nokia start shipping phones with a brand new operating system people might sit up and take notice. Surely even the most ardent Nokia/Symbian fans realize that the N95 was their last great handset. Godspeed Meego
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Jimmy1
Well, this actually says more about Nokia's ability to market and advertise. They're not the only ones who are awful at it; so is Microsoft.
Both companies are sort of like that balding older relative, who dresses up in their polyester leisure suit and gold chains, and strives to be "hip", "with it" and "into what the kids are doing these days". It's painful to watch. |
Unregistered
Face the fact, Symbian phones are not exciting nor do they make the users want to do things with the phone. This is the fact that continues to escape the "Nokia sells millions more phones" a month crowd. The phones they sell are not high-end phones and they simply continue to be boring, workman phones that no one is interested in just pulling out of their pocket to play with. The last phone that had this type of feel was the N95. The N86 was okay but abandoned. The same fate is on the horizon with the N8. Great hardware, same old boring OS and a complete lack of eco-system (Ovi has fail all over it). Android and Apple have proven that hardware with a good (excellent on Apple's part) eco-system is what matters. Users want more than just the ability to make phone calls or send text messages. They want a bit of flash on their phones and Nokia simply does not deliver this.
Unregistered
Well, for the granddaddy of smartphones OSes, the numbers surely are kinda of worrying. So you mean Symbian, which is around for how many years now? activates 300K devices a day while Android, a newcomer, activates 200K? So Android needed 1 year and a half (or even just one year of real presence on the market) to get to 2/3 of Symbian? When I look at the numbers, I don't see "largest smartphone market share" but "fast-eroding market share".
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
What a wierd planet you must live on.
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ajck
We have to ask what ultimately matters - why are we making any comparisons anyway? Well, profits matter if you're an objective investor in Apple or Nokia stocks who's solely interested in the return they'll get. At the moment, you'd choose Apple. This profit comparison completely ignores anything other than return on investment, in which case you can also compare those stocks with anything else - sugar, oil, department stores, banks, you name it.
Some have suggested that Apple having more profits allows them to develop better products (i.e. making batter technology available to consumers) and make better acquisitions of other companies - all for the benefit of consumers. And yet, who are we seeing doing WAY more of that than Apple? Nokia. E.g. they bought Navteq and, bluntly, have given millions of poorer people very full featured free sat nav, not just on the high end (yep, high end) N8, but on the real cheapo 5800, 52xx series devices.
So, what ultimately matters, if you're not some disinterested stock investor, is making the best technology available to the most people in the world. Nokia are far and away the clear leaders in this the world over. Not only the recent series comparing low end Androids with low end Nokia Symbian phones, but lots of other anecdotes, have shown Android simply can't compete AT ALL with Nokia Symbian phones at the low end. iPhone isn't even in the running. Nokia take a tiny fraction of the profits other handset makers take per handset, but so many more millions of people benefit as a result.
Then there's the high end. All of you about to buy an N8, know that you are getting a piece of technology that is WELL in advance of anything else you can buy out there not only for a similar price, but at any higher price too. Look at the N8 features (I'm talking the quality of the N8 implementations, not just the presence in a feature list)! They blow all other Androids and iPhone and Blackberries out of the water.
All this 'noise' in the marketplace is because, for a short time, Nokia's UI, developer support, and app store wasn't quite as good as the competition. End of story. The big question for everyone is, if Nokia/Symbian have been selling that many more smartphones with their 'old', 'crap' S60 5th edition handsets, what happens when they flex their muscles, upgrade Symbian to ^3 and then ^4, and produce even better hardware like the incredible N8? What happens when the Ovi Store makes devs real money, and sells apps in the many millions? What happens when developer support is BETTER than on iPhone or Android? Well all those things are happening now.
Furthermore, what happens when the phone options for hundreds of millions of poorer consumers are a sophisticated Nokia/Symbian smartphone with free nav, app store, etc etc, or a limited featurephone? What happens when much of that growth is in emerging markets, where Nokia already reign, and Symbian vs other smartphones is already no contest?
I find it hard to see any other future than overwhelming Nokia/Symbian dominance worldwide, as the vastly more efficient Symbian continually outclasses Android at the lowest end where people are upgrading featurephones to smartphones. On the app front (noting that Nokia has more functionality built in anyway than rival platforms), eventually developers will realise the new gold rush is on Ovi/Symbian/Meego, not on the oversaturated iPhone and Android, where most don't make money.
Some have suggested that Apple having more profits allows them to develop better products (i.e. making batter technology available to consumers) and make better acquisitions of other companies - all for the benefit of consumers. And yet, who are we seeing doing WAY more of that than Apple? Nokia. E.g. they bought Navteq and, bluntly, have given millions of poorer people very full featured free sat nav, not just on the high end (yep, high end) N8, but on the real cheapo 5800, 52xx series devices.
So, what ultimately matters, if you're not some disinterested stock investor, is making the best technology available to the most people in the world. Nokia are far and away the clear leaders in this the world over. Not only the recent series comparing low end Androids with low end Nokia Symbian phones, but lots of other anecdotes, have shown Android simply can't compete AT ALL with Nokia Symbian phones at the low end. iPhone isn't even in the running. Nokia take a tiny fraction of the profits other handset makers take per handset, but so many more millions of people benefit as a result.
Then there's the high end. All of you about to buy an N8, know that you are getting a piece of technology that is WELL in advance of anything else you can buy out there not only for a similar price, but at any higher price too. Look at the N8 features (I'm talking the quality of the N8 implementations, not just the presence in a feature list)! They blow all other Androids and iPhone and Blackberries out of the water.
All this 'noise' in the marketplace is because, for a short time, Nokia's UI, developer support, and app store wasn't quite as good as the competition. End of story. The big question for everyone is, if Nokia/Symbian have been selling that many more smartphones with their 'old', 'crap' S60 5th edition handsets, what happens when they flex their muscles, upgrade Symbian to ^3 and then ^4, and produce even better hardware like the incredible N8? What happens when the Ovi Store makes devs real money, and sells apps in the many millions? What happens when developer support is BETTER than on iPhone or Android? Well all those things are happening now.
Furthermore, what happens when the phone options for hundreds of millions of poorer consumers are a sophisticated Nokia/Symbian smartphone with free nav, app store, etc etc, or a limited featurephone? What happens when much of that growth is in emerging markets, where Nokia already reign, and Symbian vs other smartphones is already no contest?
I find it hard to see any other future than overwhelming Nokia/Symbian dominance worldwide, as the vastly more efficient Symbian continually outclasses Android at the lowest end where people are upgrading featurephones to smartphones. On the app front (noting that Nokia has more functionality built in anyway than rival platforms), eventually developers will realise the new gold rush is on Ovi/Symbian/Meego, not on the oversaturated iPhone and Android, where most don't make money.
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
Face the fact, Symbian phones are not exciting nor do they make the users want to do things with the phone. [blah blah blah] Users want a bit of flash on their phones and Nokia simply does not deliver this.
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Show me a competitor with the camera quality of an N8, the HDMI connectivity, the true Dolby 5.1 out, the WebTV, the USB on the Go, the media ability, the graphics power and so on.
You say confidently what 'users' want, and yet 'users' are buying so many Nokia/Symbian phones every day that it's outselling it's rivals by "each week there are 200,000 more Symbian phones out there than iPhones, and almost 500,000 more than Android.".
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
Well, for the granddaddy of smartphones OSes, the numbers surely are kinda of worrying. So you mean Symbian, which is around for how many years now? activates 300K devices a day while Android, a newcomer, activates 200K? So Android needed 1 year and a half (or even just one year of real presence on the market) to get to 2/3 of Symbian? When I look at the numbers, I don't see "largest smartphone market share" but "fast-eroding market share".
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2.) Did you read the article? Here's some facts from it: "each week there are 200,000 more Symbian phones out there than iPhones, and almost 500,000 more than Android. Symbian is not being caught and left behind, in terms of raw numbers they are pulling away by a significant percentage every single day."
Please stop trying to dispute facts.
And just to knock this one on the head, there are about 15 - 20 million Androids (give or take a few million) out in the world. There are over 350 million Symbian phones and Symbian is increasing that lead over Android by half a million a week. 'nuff said :)
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
Face the fact, Symbian phones are not exciting nor do they make the users want to do things with the phone. This is the fact that continues to escape the "Nokia sells millions more phones" a month crowd. The phones they sell are not high-end phones and they simply continue to be boring, workman phones that no one is interested in just pulling out of their pocket to play with. .
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Because the VAST majority of phone users are not boring geeks that waste time poking their smartphones, they are actually normal humans with social lives and well.... lives.
They are not interested in ARM N-doodah and sad-git 3GL 3D acceleratorisers and capacitive-bum-tappers. They just want workman phones to do a basic task and then put straight away again so they can do something interesting.
I'll rewrite your first few words correctly:
"Face the fact, smartphones are not exciting"
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by ajck
Some have suggested that Apple having more profits allows them to develop better products (i.e. making batter technology available to consumers) and make better acquisitions of other companies - all for the benefit of consumers. And yet, who are we seeing doing WAY more of that than Apple? Nokia. E.g. they bought Navteq and, bluntly, have given millions of poorer people very full featured free sat nav, not just on the high end (yep, high end) N8, but on the real cheapo 5800, 52xx series devices. |
Unregistered
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
Show me a competitor with the camera quality of an N8, the HDMI connectivity, the true Dolby 5.1 out, the WebTV, the USB on the Go, the media ability, the graphics power and so on.
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Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
Interesting that my £60 TomTom unit complete with car power lead, cradle with window attachment and carry case was half the price of a 5800, and the TomTom is vastly superior.
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'nuff said :)
Unregistered
It would be interesting to place dots on a world map. Start with all major technology/mobile blogs. Or, lacking a physical workplace, their editors' locations. Finally add three more dots: Cupertino, Mountain View and Espoo.
Which dot is separated from the rest?
Which dot is separated from the rest?
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
..... What offering do you think Nokia can put forth to compete with the HTC Desire, or Galaxy S, or iPhone 4?
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Next!
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
N8. Blows the rest away without even trying. Ecosystem? Nokia has it all - check the range of Ovi services. Whatever your opinion, millions are using them happily. Apps? Many apps on Ovi have had well over a million downloads.
Next! |
Reda EK
Quote:
| Face the fact, Symbian phones are not exciting nor do they make the users want to do things with the phone. This is the fact that continues to escape the "Nokia sells millions more phones" a month crowd. The phones they sell are not high-end phones and they simply continue to be boring, workman phones that no one is interested in just pulling out of their pocket to play with. The last phone that had this type of feel was the N95. The N86 was okay but abandoned. The same fate is on the horizon with the N8. Great hardware, same old boring OS and a complete lack of eco-system (Ovi has fail all over it). Android and Apple have proven that hardware with a good (excellent on Apple's part) eco-system is what matters. Users want more than just the ability to make phone calls or send text messages. They want a bit of flash on their phones and Nokia simply does not deliver this. |
Unregistered
Great post Reda EK. You nailed it.
As a user of the iPhone and several Nokia's, I can say with confidence if I were forced to choose, I would go with the iPhone every time simply because it does more and has a more reliable eco-system. I remember the week if not month long problems of Ovi Sync, Ovi Files not working properly and let's not forget the multiple log-ins just to access Ovi services. Nokia had a head start on Apple and they squandered it on whatever they squandered it on. Ovi is a joke when compared to the Apple App Store. The Android is getting its legs but they too will surpass the Ovi offerings. I have not even gone into the ease of use features that Android and Apple have over Symbian. Just to make a test, take an iPhone or Android phone and give it to an older person. Ask them to make a phone call and see how long it takes. Do the same test with ANY Nokia phone and see how long it takes. The previous two OS's are for the common person that does not want to tweak or hope that they can get through the day without of memory errors or screen freezes while Symbian is for someone with a lot of patience, and who does not mind the constant annoyances that come bundled within.
As a user of the iPhone and several Nokia's, I can say with confidence if I were forced to choose, I would go with the iPhone every time simply because it does more and has a more reliable eco-system. I remember the week if not month long problems of Ovi Sync, Ovi Files not working properly and let's not forget the multiple log-ins just to access Ovi services. Nokia had a head start on Apple and they squandered it on whatever they squandered it on. Ovi is a joke when compared to the Apple App Store. The Android is getting its legs but they too will surpass the Ovi offerings. I have not even gone into the ease of use features that Android and Apple have over Symbian. Just to make a test, take an iPhone or Android phone and give it to an older person. Ask them to make a phone call and see how long it takes. Do the same test with ANY Nokia phone and see how long it takes. The previous two OS's are for the common person that does not want to tweak or hope that they can get through the day without of memory errors or screen freezes while Symbian is for someone with a lot of patience, and who does not mind the constant annoyances that come bundled within.
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
And of course your TomTom can run thousands of downloadable apps, browser the web, make phone calls, has a camera with Carl Zeiss lens and flash, is light and pocketable, and so on and so on. As for the sat nav superiority bit - it's not superior in any meaningful way that makes it worth getting as a sat nav vs. Ovi Maps.
'nuff said :) |
And if I read any-more Dilbert-speak wank-words like "EcoSystem"! GRRRR! F***ing boring nurds.
Unregistered
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
Great post Reda EK. You nailed it.
As a user of the iPhone and several Nokia's, I can say with confidence if I were forced to choose, I would go with the iPhone every time simply because it does more and has a more reliable eco-system. I remember the week if not month long problems of Ovi Sync, Ovi Files not working properly and let's not forget the multiple log-ins just to access Ovi services. Nokia had a head start on Apple and they squandered it on whatever they squandered it on. Ovi is a joke when compared to the Apple App Store. The Android is getting its legs but they too will surpass the Ovi offerings. I have not even gone into the ease of use features that Android and Apple have over Symbian. Just to make a test, take an iPhone or Android phone and give it to an older person. Ask them to make a phone call and see how long it takes. Do the same test with ANY Nokia phone and see how long it takes. The previous two OS's are for the common person that does not want to tweak or hope that they can get through the day without of memory errors or screen freezes while Symbian is for someone with a lot of patience, and who does not mind the constant annoyances that come bundled within. |
BTW, some of these Android phones are bastards to work out how to make a call on. The Nokia phone with a keypad and a green "call" button is always easier for the older person to make a call on. "ANY" you said. Well I've tried your test with MY iPhone. The older person has to press a physical button, slide to unlock, then find the green "phone" touch screen button at the bottom to be faced with a screen full of contacts. Then they have to press the keypad button at the bottom. Watching them figure out how to end the call was hilarious.
Physical number pad is far more intuitive.
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