All About Symbian - Symbian, Nokia and S60 unwrapped.
Does Symbian need crowd pleasing reference hardware?
Published by Ewan Spence at 19:19 UTC, July 22nd 2010
Following on from Steve’s discussion earlier this week on discontinued smartphones, it’s been interesting to watch the reaction from other publications around Google’s Nexus one no longer being sold, and how it was a failed experiment and customers will only buy devices from the High Street. Regardless, it's a path I think Symbian should think about going down...
Without solid numbers it’s hard to say (Steve's guess: half a million in total), but the Nexus one is not likely to have been a huge selling phone. Did it become an overnight sensation, did it get into the hands of everyone in the world in one magical swoop?
No. In terms of volume, yes it failed. But I doubt that this was the goal of the device. If it had taken off, then Google wouldn’t have complained, but they managed to create a win-win situation. What was more important to them was who was buying the phone, who was writing about the phone, and how much buzz did it make. Given both the early adopter nature of the device and the Silicon Valley Twitterati that all rolled up to Mountain View, the medium to long term return has been worth it.
People were more than happy to pay Google for the Nexus one and then do a bucket load of free advertising and promotion about the device and the Android Operating System. That did enough to kick-start the perception of the Android OS, and take it to where it is today.
What would happen if the Symbian Foundation were to release a reference handset to the public? Put aside questions of organisation style, income that could be used to pursue the project and the expenditure required to build the handsets in the first place, what would this mean for Symbian and how they are seen by the public?
There is a reference design at the moment (the Zoom 2, shown above) but I’m considering something a little bit more radical and acceptable to the public. It wouldn’t have a huge production run, and it should be considered a “danger” to the handset manufacturers or networks. What it would do is provide those who want (or need) to see the new Operating Systems, UI and tools with a way to do so, that Symbian would be able to steer proactively themselves rather than having to wait for their partners to do so.
You could easily build a small outreach program around the handset through the online tech community as well and showcase Symbian in the best way possible. As a benefit you’d also start to show that the Symbian OS is more than just Nokia.
As the handset would be designed to show off the full power of the Operating System, it’s unlikely it would have to be compromised with low RAM, poor camera, or insufficient storage - there would be no need to build down to a price. The resulting cost would likely be quite high – there would be no economy of scale and you would think that higher end parts would be used – but the point is not to make a competitive market place product, it’s to have something that can be used to promote the Symbian platform, to evangelise the product, and to start getting some positive coverage of the platform online.
-- Ewan Spence, July 2010.
News Discussion
Jimmy1
Well, there already sort of is a Symbian reference device, except it wasn't built by the SF. Samsung did: the i8910 Omnia HD.
I own it, in the U.S. (with spotty 3G, flaky antenna on EDGE and all) and it's a pretty decent device. Its best features are still the 720p video and the 8mp camera, but it's still buggy, and frustrating on occasion.
If it had official access to, say, Ovi Maps, it would be even better (yes, I know there's a hack, and I've used it in the past, but it stopped working, so the only maps option is Google).
But now, it's time for an upgrade and I'm eying the Droid X or iPhone 4.
I own it, in the U.S. (with spotty 3G, flaky antenna on EDGE and all) and it's a pretty decent device. Its best features are still the 720p video and the 8mp camera, but it's still buggy, and frustrating on occasion.
If it had official access to, say, Ovi Maps, it would be even better (yes, I know there's a hack, and I've used it in the past, but it stopped working, so the only maps option is Google).
But now, it's time for an upgrade and I'm eying the Droid X or iPhone 4.
morpheus2702
Jeez Ewan I know you are known for your 'left field' articles on AAS and proposing some radical ideas. But I really wonder if you believe what your are writing or simply seek to be provocative for the sake of getting a reaction.
The Nexus Google could easily afford to be a failure. Sure, probably they didn't want it to be in their quest to sell directly, but with Android on an upward surge and the HTC Desire still out there, sure it's a 'win-win' for Google.
However Nokia/Symbian needs a reference design like a hole in the head. After 2 years of talk of code, committees and plans, they just need to get a handset (and a damned good one) into the hands of consumers. Prove that Symbian^3/^4 is the business and consumers want it and it is worth developing for, maybe then a reference handset could be an idea.
But until Nokia/Symbian regain their credibility amongst the buying public and in turn, developers, what you suggest is nothing more than a distraction.
The Nexus Google could easily afford to be a failure. Sure, probably they didn't want it to be in their quest to sell directly, but with Android on an upward surge and the HTC Desire still out there, sure it's a 'win-win' for Google.
However Nokia/Symbian needs a reference design like a hole in the head. After 2 years of talk of code, committees and plans, they just need to get a handset (and a damned good one) into the hands of consumers. Prove that Symbian^3/^4 is the business and consumers want it and it is worth developing for, maybe then a reference handset could be an idea.
But until Nokia/Symbian regain their credibility amongst the buying public and in turn, developers, what you suggest is nothing more than a distraction.
Jimmy1
Just to add:
Ewan, Symbian doesn't need a reference device...it needs third party partnerships. Lack of content is killing the platform.
Just today, Barnes & Noble made its Nook app also available to Android and already one exists for Apple and RIM. Nothing for Symbian.
Ewan, Symbian doesn't need a reference device...it needs third party partnerships. Lack of content is killing the platform.
Just today, Barnes & Noble made its Nook app also available to Android and already one exists for Apple and RIM. Nothing for Symbian.
argh
This would only be a reasonable idea if the Symbian Foundation then guaranteed that it would get upgrades to at least Symbian^X (insert whatever version is appropriate depending on the spec of the hardware).
Part of what made the Nexus One popular with the Android community was the developer / open aspect, with Google / HTC allowing the user to flash custom ROMs to it legally and without jumping through hoops, although at the cost of the warrantee I believe.
Part of what made the Nexus One popular with the Android community was the developer / open aspect, with Google / HTC allowing the user to flash custom ROMs to it legally and without jumping through hoops, although at the cost of the warrantee I believe.
Unregistered
Not much sense having a flagship reference device without firmware that's a) Exciting and fresh & b) is upgradable. ^2 left S60 a year behind the competition, I have no doubts that the N8 will be an amazingly capable device, but it's even more important that the foundation ensure that using it is a pleasant and fluid experience. Good amounts of eye candy can make even otherwise mundane phones shift rather well (X10 anyone?), on the flipside, a capable phone that performs like a lame nag tends not to leave a particularly nice impression on people right from the showroom.
Roll on Meego.
Roll on Meego.
Hardeep1singh
Down with Eye Candy. We've never cared about eye candy. If we did then phones like N95 and N82 would've never been such huge hits. Features are what matters and Nokia/Symbian phones are by far the most feature rich phones in the market.
Android phones Camera quality is mediocre, their applications are written in Java (lol) and all they have is a fluid UI that only Girls and Americans care about.
Bring on the N8.
Android phones Camera quality is mediocre, their applications are written in Java (lol) and all they have is a fluid UI that only Girls and Americans care about.
Bring on the N8.
doonit
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hardeep1singh
Android phones Camera quality is mediocre, their applications are written in Java (lol) and all they have is a fluid UI that only Girls and Americans care about.
|
Tenkom
Java or not. Apps on android still generally beat the crap out of symbian apps. And there's now over a hundred thousand of them.
Edit: just compare raging thunder 2 for both platforms.
Edit: just compare raging thunder 2 for both platforms.
Unregistered
i think nokia has already done this once, with the n900 which can be looked as a sort of test bed for the maemo platform.
Unregistered
Why not either:
- release a new communicator style form factor (developers need a keyboard!) that can have its OS firmware re-flashed.
or
- Sell/Release the tools to 're-flash' certain of the older phones (of varying form factors, e90, n95, etc.). It would not require creating a new reference platform, and it would allow people who want to tweak their own Symbian to do it.
I would love to do this for my phone.
- release a new communicator style form factor (developers need a keyboard!) that can have its OS firmware re-flashed.
or
- Sell/Release the tools to 're-flash' certain of the older phones (of varying form factors, e90, n95, etc.). It would not require creating a new reference platform, and it would allow people who want to tweak their own Symbian to do it.
I would love to do this for my phone.
talhamid
"Down with Eye Candy. We've never cared about eye candy. If we did then phones like N95 and N82 would've never been such huge hits. Features are what matters and Nokia/Symbian phones are by far the most feature rich phones in the market.
Android phones Camera quality is mediocre, their applications are written in Java (lol) and all they have is a fluid UI that only Girls and Americans care about.
Bring on the N8."
Have you actually USED an android phone? Thanks for displaying your complete ignorance.
First, no Android is not about eye candy either, though lack of hideous Symbian icons and pixellated text does make life a little bit livabe.
Nokia/Symbian phones being most feature rich - YES if you count things like FM transmitter etc or useless huge internal memory that cripples the phone if ever filled.
Guess what: YES android phone camera quality is mediocre, but NO ONE CARES ABOUT THAT. If you have a great camera which takes 10 seconds to start, its useless.
ANdroid is every bit (if not more) powerful than Symbian. What takes Nokia/Symbian ages to do, Android does in weeks. Just look at how many alternative desktops are available for Android and compare how long it took Nokia to add five lousy, pathetic, ugly, inflexible, buggy, inept, slow widgets to Symbian homescreen. And it is NOKIA/SYmbian who are supposed to specialize in these things!VNC, remote desktop, exhcange mail, name it and it is 100 times better in Android.
the only advantage Symbian has is that it is available in dirt-cheap devices, and it is a huge advantage. It also means that it should be limited to dirt-cheap devices where customers are willing to put up with a locked, ugly, slow, clunky OS.
And I fail to understand why AAS keeps pretending that Symbian's main problem is that of image? I have been a loyal Nokia user for 5 or more years, yet 15 minutes of using an HTC Legend made me regret it all. Yes I would still like to see Symbian prosper and one day would love to go back to it, but ONLY if it regains its position as the best mobile OS.
Android phones Camera quality is mediocre, their applications are written in Java (lol) and all they have is a fluid UI that only Girls and Americans care about.
Bring on the N8."
Have you actually USED an android phone? Thanks for displaying your complete ignorance.
First, no Android is not about eye candy either, though lack of hideous Symbian icons and pixellated text does make life a little bit livabe.
Nokia/Symbian phones being most feature rich - YES if you count things like FM transmitter etc or useless huge internal memory that cripples the phone if ever filled.
Guess what: YES android phone camera quality is mediocre, but NO ONE CARES ABOUT THAT. If you have a great camera which takes 10 seconds to start, its useless.
ANdroid is every bit (if not more) powerful than Symbian. What takes Nokia/Symbian ages to do, Android does in weeks. Just look at how many alternative desktops are available for Android and compare how long it took Nokia to add five lousy, pathetic, ugly, inflexible, buggy, inept, slow widgets to Symbian homescreen. And it is NOKIA/SYmbian who are supposed to specialize in these things!VNC, remote desktop, exhcange mail, name it and it is 100 times better in Android.
the only advantage Symbian has is that it is available in dirt-cheap devices, and it is a huge advantage. It also means that it should be limited to dirt-cheap devices where customers are willing to put up with a locked, ugly, slow, clunky OS.
And I fail to understand why AAS keeps pretending that Symbian's main problem is that of image? I have been a loyal Nokia user for 5 or more years, yet 15 minutes of using an HTC Legend made me regret it all. Yes I would still like to see Symbian prosper and one day would love to go back to it, but ONLY if it regains its position as the best mobile OS.
Unregistered
Quote:
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Originally Posted by talhamid
Have you actually USED an android phone? Thanks for displaying your complete ignorance. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by talhamid
First, no Android is not about eye candy either, though lack of hideous Symbian icons and pixellated text does make life a little bit livabe.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by talhamid
And I fail to understand why AAS keeps pretending that Symbian's main problem is that of image? I have been a loyal Nokia user for 5 or more years, yet 15 minutes of using an HTC Legend made me regret it all. Yes I would still like to see Symbian prosper and one day would love to go back to it, but ONLY if it regains its position as the best mobile OS.
|
morpheus2702
[quote=Hardeep1singh;471770]Down with Eye Candy. We've never cared about eye candy. If we did then phones like N95 and N82 would've never been such huge hits. Features are what matters and Nokia/Symbian phones are by far the most feature rich phones in the market. [quote]
Hardeep, are you still living in 2007?
Welcome to 2010 - where the rise of the iPhone and Android platforms are testament to the overall experience now being 'what matters'. It's not just not enough be 'feature rich' by having a tick list of features
You may never have cared about eye candy but a lot of people do. Why should it be an 'either/or' situation - either have eye candy or have an OS that functions well? Why shouldn't we expect or demand both?
Hardeep, are you still living in 2007?
Welcome to 2010 - where the rise of the iPhone and Android platforms are testament to the overall experience now being 'what matters'. It's not just not enough be 'feature rich' by having a tick list of features
You may never have cared about eye candy but a lot of people do. Why should it be an 'either/or' situation - either have eye candy or have an OS that functions well? Why shouldn't we expect or demand both?
Unregistered
Quote:
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Originally Posted by morpheus2702
Hardeep, are you still living in 2007?
Welcome to 2010 - where the rise of the iPhone and Android platforms are testament to the overall experience now being 'what matters'. It's not just not enough be 'feature rich' by having a tick list of features ? |
The iPhone is definitely a really good all round UI and back up service environment and way ahead of Android - but has its own different negatives.
morpheus2702
Don't think I said Android was great, just that it is on the rise.
And you kind of answer your own question: 'using an Android phone whilst I wait for Nokia to get its act together and release a decent handset with ^4'.
Android, great or not, is better than whatever Nokia has out there right now? And that's what Nokia/Symbian needs to deliver ASAP - a consumer handset with 2010 specs and expectations, in the hands of consumers.
Not any 'Reference' handsets.
And you kind of answer your own question: 'using an Android phone whilst I wait for Nokia to get its act together and release a decent handset with ^4'.
Android, great or not, is better than whatever Nokia has out there right now? And that's what Nokia/Symbian needs to deliver ASAP - a consumer handset with 2010 specs and expectations, in the hands of consumers.
Not any 'Reference' handsets.
unregesterd
my dream nokia phone would be the size of E61i , the look of E71, and the power of N8.all compined toghether would be an overkill..
Unregistered
Quote:
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Originally Posted by morpheus2702
Android, great or not, is better than whatever Nokia has out there right now? . |
I just don't think it would take very much to improve on the Android offerings.
talhamid
@Hardeep: I would love to find out what Android phone you have and what bugs or irritates you about it. I am not saying it is without fault, but compared to Symbian......
@Everyone else: Well, I think Android is not only 'getting better', but at this very moment is light years ahead of Symbian right now. It is fast, non-pretentious, unobstrusive, and does everything you expect it to do. Not to mention it is flexible, 1000 times so than 'open source' Symbian. I will again cite the earlier example of alternative homescreens/desktops vs Nokia's hyper-pathetic s60 v5 homescreen.
Another example: see how SBP Mobile Shell operates on a Symbian set, vs other sets.
Nokia's last hope is Maemo/Meego, and the sooner they put it on more devices, the sooner they will regain lost customers like me.
@Everyone else: Well, I think Android is not only 'getting better', but at this very moment is light years ahead of Symbian right now. It is fast, non-pretentious, unobstrusive, and does everything you expect it to do. Not to mention it is flexible, 1000 times so than 'open source' Symbian. I will again cite the earlier example of alternative homescreens/desktops vs Nokia's hyper-pathetic s60 v5 homescreen.
Another example: see how SBP Mobile Shell operates on a Symbian set, vs other sets.
Nokia's last hope is Maemo/Meego, and the sooner they put it on more devices, the sooner they will regain lost customers like me.
morpheus2702
I've never heard of Symbian, by implication, being 'pretentious' :)
Unregistered
Putting the fanboisisms to one side, doesn't the wild ducks project address this, at least partly?
Unregistered
Quote:
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Originally Posted by talhamid
@Everyone else: Well, I think Android is not only 'getting better', but at this very moment is light years ahead of Symbian right now. It is fast, non-pretentious, unobstrusive, and does everything you expect it to do. Not to mention it is flexible, 1000 times so than 'open source' Symbian. I will again cite the earlier example of alternative homescreens/desktops vs Nokia's hyper-pathetic s60 v5 homescreen. Nokia's last hope is Maemo/Meego, and the sooner they put it on more devices, the sooner they will regain lost customers like me. |
As for Android being light years ahead. Only in your dreams. I use both and Android is a bit disappointing. It's better than the existing S60V5 over Symbian (^1) but not by much. I guess that's why phone makers feel the need to enhance the UI.
influence
Quote:
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Originally Posted by talhamid
@Hardeep: I would love to find out what Android phone you have and what bugs or irritates you about it. I am not saying it is without fault, but compared to Symbian......
@Everyone else: Well, I think Android is not only 'getting better', but at this very moment is light years ahead of Symbian right now. It is fast, non-pretentious, unobstrusive, and does everything you expect it to do. Not to mention it is flexible, 1000 times so than 'open source' Symbian. I will again cite the earlier example of alternative homescreens/desktops vs Nokia's hyper-pathetic s60 v5 homescreen. Another example: see how SBP Mobile Shell operates on a Symbian set, vs other sets. Nokia's last hope is Maemo/Meego, and the sooner they put it on more devices, the sooner they will regain lost customers like me. |
- Excessive slowdown when playing Tower Defence and listening to tunes on Spotify. And when I say excessive I mean, the game is unplayable and the music is unlistenable.
- 'Reseting' of the contacts fields when switching between portrait and landscape mode. By this I mean the cursor is put back to the first field, from the one you were in.
- Flash gets out of sync if, for example - streaming music while taking a photo.
- Sticky keyboard in the web browser.
- Resets, hangs - you know, the usual.
Android isn't immune to bugs any more than Symbian. 'Buginess' needs to be seen as a per device problem, rather than an inherent property of a platform, such is the nature of embedded software.
As for openness. One - you completely misunderstand the meaning of 'open source'. How open source a software project is is precisely nothing to do with things like codecs supported, the ability to put whatever software you want on a device (that's the openess of the device, not the openess of the software). Two - if Android by your definition is so open, why can't a use OBEX push to send a vCard to another phone? Even dumbphones support this.
Symbian isn't perfect, neither is Android.
Unregistered
I would love it if they had 2 reference devices. There are companies, like Aava Mobile, that do just that. There reference device for Intel Moorestown can install Android or MeeGo OS and why not Symbian. With the plain, vanilla OS installed on a reference device purists can pay more and get an unlocked device that they can use for developing apps for different systems.
Hardware will always be more limited than software. A well-designed "reference device" that can load Symbian, MeeGo, Andriod, WebOS, Blackberry OS, Windows Phone 7 is probably possible as long as a device manufacturer had agreements to license the OS.
Hardware will always be more limited than software. A well-designed "reference device" that can load Symbian, MeeGo, Andriod, WebOS, Blackberry OS, Windows Phone 7 is probably possible as long as a device manufacturer had agreements to license the OS.
Jimmy1
I would love a post from Rafe or Steve or Ewan on how Symbian 3 and the N8 functions day to day as a communications device, along with PIM functions.
Specifically, Facebook and Twitter intergration into contacts.
Nokia Messaging: did it get any better?
Are we finally going to get a native Foursquare app or maybe bundle it into Ovi Maps?
How about notifications in Symbian 3?
Destinations? Am I going to still keep on getting annoying pop ups in every single seperate application on how want to connect to the internet, 3G or Wifi, or which connection (I expect to need to do this ONCE when I first set up the phone and that's it. All applications should take their cue from that existing information.)
I think many others would be interested in this too fellas.
Specifically, Facebook and Twitter intergration into contacts.
Nokia Messaging: did it get any better?
Are we finally going to get a native Foursquare app or maybe bundle it into Ovi Maps?
How about notifications in Symbian 3?
Destinations? Am I going to still keep on getting annoying pop ups in every single seperate application on how want to connect to the internet, 3G or Wifi, or which connection (I expect to need to do this ONCE when I first set up the phone and that's it. All applications should take their cue from that existing information.)
I think many others would be interested in this too fellas.
manual_
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jimmy1
I would love a post from Rafe or Steve or Ewan on how Symbian 3 and the N8 functions day to day as a communications device, along with PIM functions.
Specifically, Facebook and Twitter intergration into contacts. Nokia Messaging: did it get any better? Are we finally going to get a native Foursquare app or maybe bundle it into Ovi Maps? How about notifications in Symbian 3? Destinations? Am I going to still keep on getting annoying pop ups in every single seperate application on how want to connect to the internet, 3G or Wifi, or which connection (I expect to need to do this ONCE when I first set up the phone and that's it. All applications should take their cue from that existing information.) I think many others would be interested in this too fellas. |
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