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Camera group test: Nokia N86 8MP, N97, N82 and Samsung i8510

Published by Rafe Blandford at 19:49 UTC, June 16th 2009 under Hardware in S60 3rd Edition, S60 5th Edition|| 56 Comments / Post New Comment

In this review we're doing a group test of some of the heavyweight S60-powered cameraphones. It's the Nokia N86 8MP versus the Nokia N97, Nokia N82 and Samsung i8510 (Innov8).

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Introduction

In this group review, we compare the results of photos shot on the Nokia N82 (an imaging-focussed S60 phone with a five megapixel sensor and a very good reputation), the Samsung i8510 (the first 8 megapixel S60 cameraphone), the Nokia N97 (Nokia's new high end Nseries) and the Nokia N86 8MP (Nokia's new Nseries imaging flagship). The intention is to provide some real world comparison shots. By their very nature, such tests aren't very scientific, but they should provide a good guide to what you can expect from day-to-day point and shoot snapshots.

In all of the following photos we have Nokia N82 (top left), Samsung i8510 (top right), Nokia N97 (bottom left) and Nokia N86 8MP (bottom right). For each image you'll find a link to the source files for each device. Please note that these files, which are unedited and at full resolution, are relatively large - around 1 MB for the N82 and N97 and 2MB for the i8510 and N86 8MP.

As far as was possible, the same capture location and conditions were used for each photo. The important thing here is less the quality of any individual photo, but rather the comparative differences. You would be able to improve any of the photographs by fiddling with settings or using a better photographer (I'm a point and shoot person).

It is worth saying at the outset that all of these devices are able to produce good results. Cameraphones have come a long way in the last few years and it's not at all unusual for people to use a phone in place of a camera. But there's always room for improvement and cameraphone performance continues to improve.

 

Cars

These pictures were taken in sunny conditions (well, sunny for the UK). These are among the easiest conditions to cope with and there's relatively little to choose between the devices here, although the i8510 had a bit of trouble with the sky, but does a marginally better job on the colour accuracy of the tarmac.

N86 8MP, N97, N82, I8510 camera comparison

Source images Nokia N82, Samsung I8510, Nokia N97, Nokia N86 8MP

 

Strawberries (low light, no flash)

These photos, which were shot at dusk, present a much bigger challenge as light levels are much lower. I turned off the flashes on all four devices. The N86, with its variable aperture and larger sensor, clearly stands out from the rest of the group.  The i8510 didn't manage to focus, although with the flash enabled it did a much better job. The N82 is second best, with a significant advantage over the N97. The information to take away here is that the N86 performs very impressively in mid to low light conditions.

N86 8MP, N97, N82, I8510 camera comparison

Source images Nokia N82, Samsung I8510, Nokia N97, Nokia N86 8MP

 

Snail (pitch black, with flash)

The subject of Xenon flash is controversial. If you consider still image performance in isolation then there's no doubt a Xenon flash is best, but with video capture, battery life and size factors to consider, it's not a simple equation. As the N82 clearly demonstrates in this set of images, a Xenon flash provides superior illumination and captures a sharper picture. Less than a metre away, as in this case, and an LED flash will do an acceptable job, but further than that and performance drops off.

In this set the N86, looks a bit under powered, but closer examination shows that it manages the best colour accuracy. The i8510 does a decent job too, but the N97 struggles with the surrounding grass. It is also worth pointing out that, given its performance in low light conditions, you should find you need to use the flash less often on the N86 than you would on other phones.

N86 8MP, N97, N82, I8510 camera comparison

Source images Nokia N82, Samsung I8510, Nokia N97, Nokia N86 8MP

 

Landscape

This landscape capture caused problems for all the devices, with the main issue being poor focus points. The i8510 does the best all round job, but is let down by the colour accuracy of the sky. The N86 has good colour accuracy, but lacks focussed detail. The N82 just edges it over the N97, but it's a clear overall win for the 8 megapixel devices.

This image does effectively demonstrate the effect of the N86's wide angle lens. You'll see 'extra' landscape has been captured on all four sides of the image.

N86 8MP, N97, N82, I8510 camera comparison

Source images Nokia N82, Samsung I8510, Nokia N97, Nokia N86 8MP

 

Bracken

These set of images were taken when the sun was shining strongly. As a result, all the images look slightly over-exposed, with the N82 and N97 being the worst culprits. The i8510 does a reasonable job, but once again it is the N86's colour accuracy and detail that make it stand out. The wide angle lens on the N86 also captured a greater area, including the leg of my foot!

All the phones tested here offer separate manual exposure controls, which would likely improve performance. If you put in the extra effort required to tweak settings then you'll be rewarded with better pictures. However, in reality, most people, when grabbing a quick snap, will leave their camera settings on fully automatic, perhaps with the exception of the scene mode setting.

N86 8MP, N97, N82, I8510 camera comparison

Source images Nokia N82, Samsung I8510, Nokia N97, Nokia N86 8MP

 

Rose (macro mode)

Here's a macro shot of a rose. The different choices that Samsung and Nokia make in their respective colour algorithms is very evident. While the N97 and N86 get close to the 'real' colours on the leaves, the i8510 is closer on the petals. The images below suggest that the N97 and N96 have produced similar results, but if you look at the source images then you'll note the N86 has captured better detail over a greater area. The N82 produces a good all round shot, but doesn't match the detail found in either the i8510 or the N86.

N86 8MP, N97, N82, I8510 camera comparison

Source images Nokia N82, Samsung I8510, Nokia N97, Nokia N86 8MP

 

Meadow

This is another tricky shot, with a mixture of foreground and background to capture. The i8510 does a good job in the background, although, once again, does not seem to get the sky quite right. The N82 and N97 produce good foreground results, but lack focus in the middle distance and background. The N86 has good colour accuracy, but its wide angle lens means it has a greater range of conditions to cope with (more sky).

N86 8MP, N97, N82, I8510 camera comparison

Source images Nokia N82, Samsung I8510, Nokia N97, Nokia N86 8MP

 

Echo (portrait mode)

The N86 produces the best looking photo in this group, while the N97 produces the worst, thanks to a washed out background. The N82 and i8510, arguably, do a better job of capturing the detail of the dog's face. The wide angle lens of the N86 is again evident. Moving closer and taking the photo again (so the framing is similar to the other devices) resulted in improved detailing on the dog's face.

N86 8MP, N97, N82, I8510 camera comparison

Source images Nokia N82, Samsung I8510, Nokia N97, Nokia N86 8MP

 

Stream (fast moving and low light)

These images were taken inside a wood with moderate/dappled light, with fast moving water. The N82, i8510 and N97 all produce similar looking results, with the i8510 and N82 having a slight edge. All three devices 'blur' water and are able to pickup the complex detail of fast flowing water.

The N86, by contrast, produces a very different and much better looking image. Despite the low light conditions it is better able to capture the fast moving water and accurately reflects the complex patterns and light reflections. A clear win for the N86.

N86 8MP, N97, N82, I8510 camera comparison

Source images Nokia N82, Samsung I8510, Nokia N97, Nokia N86 8MP

 

Car (pitch black, with flash, from 3 metres)

These images were when it was very dark (fall over your own feet dark), with the flash set to automatic (fired in all four devices). These are extreme conditions - in most cases you'll shooting in conditions with some background light. The car is about 2.5 metres away at it closest point. The chairs in the background (visible only in the source images of the N82 and N86) are around 10 metres away.

The i8510 and N97 both perform poorly, as you would expect from a typical LED flash. The N82 produces the best looking image thanks to its Xenon flash. However the N86, equipped with a dual LED flash, also performs well, though it lacks some of the sharpness on the N82. Notably the N86, arguably, does a better job at capturing the wooden bench and two fold-up chairs in the background (top left, viewable in source images). It certainly sets new ground for an LED flash/sensor combination. Although the extra brightness of the dual LEDs isn't significant, when paired with the larger aperture and larger, more sensitive sensor, the results can be at least comparable to a Xenon-fired camera, as you can see:

N86 8MP, N97, N82, I8510 camera comparison

Source images Nokia N82, Samsung I8510, Nokia N97, Nokia N86 8MP

 

Conclusion

The main aim of this group test is to let you see a direct comparison between some top cameraphones running S60 on Symbian OS. At least a part of such comparisons comes down to personal tastes and preferences. Colour reproduction, for example, regularly produces differences of opinion. Hopefully with these images you'll be able to form a more informed opinion about the merits of each device.

However, I do think it's fair to say that the new N86 does manage to show its imaging prowess. There are some obvious examples of superiority and consistently good performance across the full range of photos. I was also surprised by the relative weakness of the N97. However, it is worth bearing in mind that both the N86 and N97 are on their first public firmware release. If previous devices are anything to go by then there'll be significant improvements with future software updates.

Rafe Blandford, All About Symbian, 22 June 2009

 

See also

Nokia N86 Review - part 1 - overview - general discussion of hardware, software and camera.

Nokia N86 photo gallery - comprehensive gallery with a view from (almost) every angle, with commentary.

Review Discussion

56 Comments / Post New Comment

tkboxer
N86 is the clear winner. With adjustable aperature it should be.
N97 seems to suffer the same fate as N95, slightly over-exposed photos, still very good quality for a phone camera.
viipottaja
Fantastic, this is the kind of test that everybody has been begging for!

Can you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE (hmm.. more begging) take a picture in pitch black/very dark condidtions with the flashes on but say 2-3 meters away rather than very close like in your snail picture. I would love to see the difference between Xenon and Led under such a scenarion. PLEASE! :D
snoyt
I did a bit of tweaking on the colors and levels of N82 and N97 images. The best I could get out of the N97 image was much nicer and colorrealistic than that of the N82 (=more bluish). I think there is a lot of space for firmware improvement. Shaming the N86 even a bit ;-) Give it a try yourself!
rvirga
(/me looks at the N97 strawberries shot) Those strawberries are rotten; you'd better throw them away... (now /me looks at the N86 shot) No, wait! They're still good, and they look delicious! Seriously, what's wrong with the N97's camera?!?
Also, the flash test shows what I've maintained for a while now, namely that two leds are not necessarily better than a single one. In the N97 shot the grass in the two lower corners appears darker, while in the INNOV8 one both lower corners are well-lit.
Unregistered
The N82 is dead?
The N86 - "Nokia's new Nseries imaging flagship"- make it completely obsolet?
I own a N82 and for me the photographic performance it is super important, so in this case: it is mandatory the upgrade?
Wath do you think about it?
I'll appreciate all your opinions. :)
Unregistered
Are these all handheld shots, or did you use some form of stabilisation to enable a degree of consistency between the non-flash pics?
Rafe
viipottaja - since you asked so nicely (and because I know you're a regular commenter), I've just popped outside and taken one more group of photos as you suggested. Sorry the subject is a bit boring, but it is quite revealing.

snoyt - yes, you can tweak the images and get interesting results. I definitely expect the N97 camera to improve with future firmware. Potentially quite a lot too.

Unregistered - yes they are all hand held pictures. I really like to take the i8510 strawberry one again if I could (so I'd suggest ignoring it). Stabilization would help, but its rather artificial compare to the typical real world shot.
viipottaja
Thanks Rafe! Really appreciate that. And indeed, quite interesting results. I was expecting the N86 to do ok, but am still very suprised to see it perform that well. Obviously, N82 is still better but not quite as big a margin as I would have guessed.
Rafi
Every time there is camera review there is a flame war of Xenon vs LED. The following article compares the benefits and disadvantages of both (though the manufacturer is biased towards LED) when used in cell phones.

http://www.cap-xx.com/news/photoarchive.htm#Xenon

Once you read it I hope you will know that there is just now way to stick that cap into any of the new slim phones...

Besides, it's all software nowadays anyhow since there is only a handful of cmos manufacturers left.
Unregistered
Most objects(my wee daughter i mean) wont be that still tough....would be crucial to see how n86 performs, in low light/moving objects versus xenon on N82.

thanks , czarnikjak
banks
rafe, i always hear that firmware updates improve camera performance and it does (it certainly did on my n96) but nokia are using the same camera modules and sensors in these devices, what is stopping them from using an already good algorithm on another device using the same camera and flash hardware then it would be good out of the box, right?
shadamehr
Steve...

I too have to echo many of the comments above...

Can you PLEASE take some of PEOPLE in dark or low light conditions.

In other words the EXACT sort of photo we really ARE likely to be taking most, and for whcih, the absence of a Xenon flash used to make things a waste of time.

We all want to see if the new LED Flash of the N86 makes it at least a possible option.

As these are arguably (under those conditions at least) the very sort of photo we are most likely to take (us normal people, not you clever techno sorts - winks), then these are what we also want to see included.

As such, by not including these sort, you'[ve left as much UNKNOWN and not answered for us, as answered, wher the N86 is concerned.

If doing these sort of shots means a FAIL, at least be honest enough to show us this.

On the other hand, if it is a revalation and shows that it is possible of a decent fashion, it will be great news.

But as it stands, without these sort of shots, we simply know nothing/are no further forward in answering one of the burning key questions of the N86...

Cheers mate - great review as ever, excepting these omissions...
seki
1. I'd like to see a low-light test of a moving subject. say a crowd scene or band at a pub. you can try the video under the same conditions <smile>

2. I'd really like to see how the i8910 would go in this test. cf the i8510

3. Please do a video comparison too!

@Rafe .. yes the N97 will improve out of site with firmware updates. Hopefully we don't die of old age first.. or wander off to buy an iPhone, Samsung or Sony.
Kazutoyo
I mostly use my phone camera for pictures at the table in a pub with friends. Seeing something similiar would be great. The xenon flash should be a clear winner there, though, as everyone are fairly close.

I would love to see Nokia release a S60 candybar with the N86 camera and a xenon flash. Kinda like the N82, but just the camera replaced. Replacing it with the N86 keypad would be nice too :tongue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafi View Post
Once you read it I hope you will know that there is just no way to stick that cap into any of the new slim phones...
SE C901 have a xenon flash and is 13mm thick. That's certainly thin enough for me.
Unregistered
the n82 the darknight is here to stay..n82 still has the best captures in the dark..if they would have put in a xenon plus led for video recording noting can beat n86..but i guess i will hope for nokia to make 1..
Hardeep1singh
Quote:
Once you read it I hope you will know that there is just no way to stick that cap into any of the new slim phones...
Did you see me asking for a thin phone? All I asked for was Xenon.

S60 fans have always been used to oversized bricks and don't really care for girly razor thin phones. I think this is a classic case of missing customer focus. Nokia has enough bandwidth to release separate devices for all customer segments. Great you've released a multimedia computer for the mass market in the guise of N97. Now its time for you to release a multimedia computer for S60 fans, one that has a bigger processor, more ram, better sound quality and ofcourse Xenon.
gregg003
another winning article for N86 :) it is no doubt the best camera phone at the moment and deserves to be called the N82 upgrade..

maybe you could also compare video capture between the 4 phones
malerocks
Thanks a lot for the comparison Rafe. You have done a wonderful job here in showing the strengths and weaknesses of all these devices.

Can you please add some snaps of people as requested by the other posters?

And I agree that the n86 is producing lovely pictures. Only thing that is bothering me is that bluish tingle of the LED Flash in the picture of the car. But like you said, that's an extreme case and will come up not that frequently.
Barney KoKo
Rafe, for the car and chair in the dark, you use automatic scene or you use night scene, because it does make quite a lot of difference, tq
slitchfield
To answer the question about shooting people, Rafe and I haven't shot 'social' scenes yet because we can't shoot each other easily (too far apart) and we really don't want to shoot our non-geek family and friends (who'd hate to be up on the net for all to see).

Anyone here own an N86 and have an active night life in a place where it's acceptable to take photos? Or have 20-something friends who don't care about being photographed? Feel free to submit more samples to Rafe or myself.
cb474
Rafe,

Thanks for the comparisons! It's definitely interesting to see how the variable aperature improves low-light non-flash photos. I hope this is a sign of a future in which camera phones have more of the technology seen in regular cameras.

One question: Did you really feel that the N86 had better color reproduction in general? Since I can't compare the photos to the real settings it's hard to say. To me the N86 images looked oversaturated. Of course, this is a popular way to go in digital cameras and with film. People feel like more and brigther color is "better" or more "real." But to me it seems fake. Sadly (since I've been looking forward to the N86), I felt that the i8510 often had what seems like the most realistic (lower contrast, lower saturation) images. I think this may be why the i8510 struggles, as it were, with the sky. It is the oversaturation of the other devices that makes the blue of the sky more apparent, even if perhaps that does not reflect the actual conditions. The N82 to me also seems a little better on colors, insofar as its images are less saturated (something I hate to say, since I'm tired of people carrying on so much about the greatness of the N82). I'd hate to think that Nokia has decided to go for the cheap over-saturated look that so often dominates consumer photography. It would be interesting to see, in Steve's review, some shots with color charts that could more scientifically test the color accuracy of the phones.

That said, it was stiking to see that the N86's LED flash seems to lack the bluish cast that LED flashes so often impart to images. That's definitely an improvement.

cb474
nj7
The dual Led of N86 itīs a desillusion, as expected...:frown: Without a Xenon flash itīs not possible to have a great all situation camera.
JKA
Hi Rafe,

thans for review. I agree with that Nokia N86 8MP is a very good camera so I will buy it. But at this moment, I must say that pictures from N86 are not good as they could be. It looks like a big compression in jpegs so details are missing. In the comparison with i8510 I think that i8510 takes a better shots (sharper) and in more cases better color submission. N86 take colors in hot spectrum, but i8510 in more realistic cold spectrum. I hope that next few firmware releases will patch this disadvantages in N86. It does not change the fact that N86 8MP is the best non-touch screen smartphone ever.

JKA
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by viipottaja View Post
Obviously, N82 is still better but not quite as big a margin as I would have guessed.
Why? Because of Xenon? I think you should wait until you see further comparisons in low light between N86 and N82, I think you'll be surprised. Yes, from a freezing the subject perspective xenon will always be better than LED but I wonder out of all the pictures you have on your PC's hard drive how many are taken with flash?
nj7
Quote:
Originally Posted by viipottaja View Post
Thanks Rafe! Really appreciate that. And indeed, quite interesting results. I was expecting the N86 to do ok, but am still very suprised to see it perform that well. Obviously, N82 is still better but not quite as big a margin as I would have guessed.
Agree, N82 is superior on inside photos, where the Xenon flash do the good job.
But the market go tell if Nokia itīs on right track, and I think they donīt, and the declining of market share itīs a consequence!

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