All About Symbian - Symbian, Nokia and S60 unwrapped.
Definitive Review: Comes with Music
Published by Steve Litchfield at 12:47 UTC, October 16th 2008
Rafe's been trying out Nokia's newest Music service offering, Comes with Music - for real, with a full retail package. There may be some caveats with the system (PC/MSIE-only, DRM-heavy), but overall he comes away very impressed. How is the PC client to use and what's the overall experience like for a new music-loving phone user? Can you retro-fit CwM to an existing handset? What can you do and what can't you do with the downloaded music? Find out in Rafe's definitive Comes with Music review.
"It does change the way you look at music - I have downloaded tracks I'd never have bought outright, partly because I could, but mainly because I wanted to see what they were like. Nokia have created several 'Introduction to...' pages which underlines this ability to try out new music and there are also playlists available from various artists who have selected their favourite music. This ability to try out new music without any perceived costs is, to my mind, the most innovative aspect of Comes with Music. Of course you'll also download your favourite albums and artists, but you would have probably got them anyway. Comes with Music lets you be much less selective and will, I imagine, result in much more eclectic music collections. Overall it is a liberating experience (perhaps rather ironically given the DRM!)"
Where can I get it?
You can currently buy two different Comes with Music packages from the Carphone Warehouse. The Nokia 5310 is available on PAYG for £129.99 (+ £10 air time) or on a contract (free from £25 per month) and the Nokia N95 8GB is available free on a contract from £40.
These handsets are also available from the Nokia Online Shop. The Nokia 5310 is available SIM-free for £159.99 and the Nokia N95 8GB is SIM-free for £399.
(These represents a premium of and £44 and £54 respectively over the prices for handsets only).
News Discussion
tkboxer
So how will they sell a "Comes with Music" phone in the U.S. when they don't have a music store in the U.S. ?
Rafe
The Musc Store is coming to the US in 2009. I imagine the USA will get CwM at the same time or shortly afterwards.
SimonJudge
Rafe
Yes I'm sure it is unlimited. The Guardian story is mistaken (note the story is from September 25th before the Nokia Remix event - e.g. the big UK Indies are included in Comes with Music).
I checked on this point with Nokia. There are no set limits (like 120). As noted in the article there is an abuse usage clause in the T&C's, but this is not set at a specific number of tracks.
I checked on this point with Nokia. There are no set limits (like 120). As noted in the article there is an abuse usage clause in the T&C's, but this is not set at a specific number of tracks.
Dynite
So the comes with music phones actually comes without music until 50 of her maj's have been given to El Nokia?
Rafe
Well yes in a sense. You buy a Comes with Music device so it is all included in one price when you buy the handset.... It is not an add-on that you can buy. This is what gives it the perception of being free.
I mentioned £50 because that's the extra you have to pay. £4 a month is quite a good deal in my book.
I mentioned £50 because that's the extra you have to pay. £4 a month is quite a good deal in my book.
tenoce
And having the newer Nokia's FM transmitter inbuilt, you can listen to the music with "low-fi" equipment. You dont even have to have bluetooth car stereo, just a normal car radio.
snoyt
Sounds like an semi-offline unlimited music subscription for a couple of pounds/euros a month on a dedicated device. No expensive 3G contract needed. No hefty 3G battery use for streaming required. The real music lover would probabely see it as a cheap and practical solution to listen freely to anything he likes and only buy those that really stay popular in his ear.
There is lots of music I'd love to listen too while new, but won't buy because it wears down after a few listens. Thumbs up Nokia. How long until this is as standard as a GPS on their phones?
There is lots of music I'd love to listen too while new, but won't buy because it wears down after a few listens. Thumbs up Nokia. How long until this is as standard as a GPS on their phones?
Rafe
Snoyt - personally that's how I expect to use the service. I'll probably still buy the stuff I really like in a DRM free format, but Comes with Music gives me a chance to get easy access to all kinds of stuff.
viipottaja
Rafe, I gather this is obvious but seemed to be missing in your article: you can of course download directly on and into your phone as well, right?
Second, can you clarify a bit, as far as you can now say, what happens at the end of the year. Say, I have a 5310 with CWM, and then at the end of the year I buy a N95 8GB with CWM. I can presumably transfer and listen to all the tracks I bought the first year on the new N95? Or not?
How about if I only buy a new CWM device in say 3 years from now. Can I transfer from the original CWM I had?
Second, can you clarify a bit, as far as you can now say, what happens at the end of the year. Say, I have a 5310 with CWM, and then at the end of the year I buy a N95 8GB with CWM. I can presumably transfer and listen to all the tracks I bought the first year on the new N95? Or not?
How about if I only buy a new CWM device in say 3 years from now. Can I transfer from the original CWM I had?
Unregistered
'Unlimited' to me means no limits, which means 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. That's clearly not what's on offer here.
Personally DRM is the deal breaker for me. Even free is too much to pay for that junk.
Personally DRM is the deal breaker for me. Even free is too much to pay for that junk.
bartmanekul
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by viipottaja
Second, can you clarify a bit, as far as you can now say, what happens at the end of the year. Say, I have a 5310 with CWM, and then at the end of the year I buy a N95 8GB with CWM. I can presumably transfer and listen to all the tracks I bought the first year on the new N95? Or not? |
I would also like to be able to add it to my phone (will be an N85). I dont want to have to buy a xpress music phone just to get this service.
Rafe
Quote:
|
Rafe, I gather this is obvious but seemed to be missing in your article: you can of course download directly on and into your phone as well, right? Second, can you clarify a bit, as far as you can now say, what happens at the end of the year. Say, I have a 5310 with CWM, and then at the end of the year I buy a N95 8GB with CWM. I can presumably transfer and listen to all the tracks I bought the first year on the new N95? Or not? How about if I only buy a new CWM device in say 3 years from now. Can I transfer from the original CWM I had? |
At the end of the year you can transfer the collection a new PC or a new Comes with Music device once every three months. I'm not sure of the exact details (i.e. what is a Comes with Music device). I'm not sure of the exact mechanism, but yes you can listen to the tracks you previously downloaded. I'll try and find out more about how exactly this works (I suspect some kind of license re-sync might be necessary). And the same would apply three years from now. During this time they would keep working on the PC.
viipottaja
Cool, sounds good.
I am surprised by not being able to access the Store over the air with 5310. Does it not support internet browsing at all, is the Music Store only compatible with S60 phones or what is the reason? That to me seems like a serious drawback as the teenies in particular, I am sure, would love to listen to and dowload stuff when out and about being cool on the high street.. :)
I am surprised by not being able to access the Store over the air with 5310. Does it not support internet browsing at all, is the Music Store only compatible with S60 phones or what is the reason? That to me seems like a serious drawback as the teenies in particular, I am sure, would love to listen to and dowload stuff when out and about being cool on the high street.. :)
Rafe
Yes I think its missing a trick. Bear in mind the 5310 is a fairly basic handset. The browser is probably not up to the job. The newer S40 ones probably are (not tried it though).
I'm sure the 5310 CwM will do well enough, but its the 5800 version that sees the best implementation IMHO.
I'm sure the 5310 CwM will do well enough, but its the 5800 version that sees the best implementation IMHO.
Unregistered
I have an N95 8GB purchased in Feb 08 product code 0559497.
Are Nokia planning to let people who dont have a "Comes With Music" handset use this service. Im willing to say them a set amount to listen to music.
The only network who are going to support CWM is 3 and I dont want to have to get handset on their network
Are Nokia planning to let people who dont have a "Comes With Music" handset use this service. Im willing to say them a set amount to listen to music.
The only network who are going to support CWM is 3 and I dont want to have to get handset on their network
architengi
I like this service.
Can I subscribe to it? Is it 80 euros per year, or how much?
Can I subscribe to it? Is it 80 euros per year, or how much?
Unregistered
"The fact that Comes with Music downloads are tied to a particular device is the caveat that will give the biggest cause for concern. If you already own an iPod, other DAP, or music-capable phone then you will not be able to transfer music to it. A lot of people have made significant investments in both devices and music purchases, such that the switching cost makes Comes with Music unattractive. Moreover, Comes with Music will be limited to a certain set of devices which may not have universal appeal."
As far as I know, music purchased from the iTunes Store can only be played on iPods and on a few marginal non-Apple devices. That didn't stop people from *buying* songs on iTunes Store. So the fact that FREE songs are tied to a device, Nokia phone in this case, does not constitute a deterrent for people who consider buying the phone. Furthermore, nothing prevents you from copying the songs you already own to a memory card and load it on the phone.
The trend is towards a phone+DAP device, so the Comes with Music phones are a good value proposition.
As far as I know, music purchased from the iTunes Store can only be played on iPods and on a few marginal non-Apple devices. That didn't stop people from *buying* songs on iTunes Store. So the fact that FREE songs are tied to a device, Nokia phone in this case, does not constitute a deterrent for people who consider buying the phone. Furthermore, nothing prevents you from copying the songs you already own to a memory card and load it on the phone.
The trend is towards a phone+DAP device, so the Comes with Music phones are a good value proposition.
Rafe
Unregistered / architengi - Currently you can only get the service with a new handset.
Unregistered - I made the point about other DAPs / Music Stores because for some of them you can get DRM free music. iTunes does this partially for example. You can also burn things to CD and then re-rip them. Personally I agree with you. But some will have a big collection of music purchased via iTunes that is DRM locked and therefore will only want an iPod.
and yes agreed - phone + DAP makes sense for many, but not everyone. (e.g. I have iPod Touch, but only ever really use it on plane journeys, most of the time my phone does everything).
Unregistered - I made the point about other DAPs / Music Stores because for some of them you can get DRM free music. iTunes does this partially for example. You can also burn things to CD and then re-rip them. Personally I agree with you. But some will have a big collection of music purchased via iTunes that is DRM locked and therefore will only want an iPod.
and yes agreed - phone + DAP makes sense for many, but not everyone. (e.g. I have iPod Touch, but only ever really use it on plane journeys, most of the time my phone does everything).
matchstick
The only way that Nokia can take on the behemoth that is iTunes is to make CWM as simple as possible and it does seem that this is a good start.
However, they HAVE to find a way to allow users to download music directly on Wifi/3G enabled handsets otherwise they are lagging behind the iPhone and with the mindshare that device has they won't survive.
BTW is the music that's downloaded also licensed to play on the PC that downloads it ?
If so the fact that WMA DRM has been thoroughly broken on windows may make this a more attractive proposition for some people, albeit for completely the wrong reasons.
All in all it's a decent start for Nokia but it's missing important features IMHO and while I'll be tempted by a CMW 5800 when it's released I think I'll probably hold off until I'm not tied to a PC to get the music I want.
However, they HAVE to find a way to allow users to download music directly on Wifi/3G enabled handsets otherwise they are lagging behind the iPhone and with the mindshare that device has they won't survive.
BTW is the music that's downloaded also licensed to play on the PC that downloads it ?
If so the fact that WMA DRM has been thoroughly broken on windows may make this a more attractive proposition for some people, albeit for completely the wrong reasons.
All in all it's a decent start for Nokia but it's missing important features IMHO and while I'll be tempted by a CMW 5800 when it's released I think I'll probably hold off until I'm not tied to a PC to get the music I want.
Rafe
matchstick - you can download music on some phones (S60 ones certainly), but yes I would agree this should happen on all phones with CwM.
Sorry if its not clear - but yes you can play any music downloaded on the PC. (Indeed you might argue that £50 for a year of music for your PC is a fairly decent deal in its own right).
And yes any time there's DRM there's a good chance someone has broken it...!
Sorry if its not clear - but yes you can play any music downloaded on the PC. (Indeed you might argue that £50 for a year of music for your PC is a fairly decent deal in its own right).
And yes any time there's DRM there's a good chance someone has broken it...!
bartmanekul
Theres the whole breaking DRM thing, but if I can play it on my PC and phone, Im sorted.
And if I can transfer the licence to whatever new handset I get, thats me definatly sorted!
Im actually thinking it would be a brilliant present for my GF.
Except she has just got a 6210N and started a new 18 month contract.
Cmon Nokia, open up subscriptions for other phones. People want to buy your product!
Also, I want to know if its possible to transfer the computer its licensed to play on. She might well want to use mine at some point or she might replace her laptop.
And if I can transfer the licence to whatever new handset I get, thats me definatly sorted!
Im actually thinking it would be a brilliant present for my GF.
Except she has just got a 6210N and started a new 18 month contract.
Cmon Nokia, open up subscriptions for other phones. People want to buy your product!
Also, I want to know if its possible to transfer the computer its licensed to play on. She might well want to use mine at some point or she might replace her laptop.
Rafe
bartmanekul - you have to keep the PC license on the same computer for year. After the year is up you can do a PC OR device transfer once every three months. At least that's what I was told - I doubt the process to do that is actually in place given it wont apply for a year.
The device transfer is a bit unclear right now - i.e. I imagine it needs to be CwM capabale, but does not have to be a CwM version - it needs to support the DRM required basically.
The device transfer is a bit unclear right now - i.e. I imagine it needs to be CwM capabale, but does not have to be a CwM version - it needs to support the DRM required basically.
bartmanekul
Seems ok.
Although I really dont know about the 6210N. It is an FP2 device, but they do cut out a lot on those 6xxx models...
Although I really dont know about the 6210N. It is an FP2 device, but they do cut out a lot on those 6xxx models...
mvn
The downfall to this type of DRM is that if Nokia decide to close the store then everybody loses their music licence (Witness the recent closure of Yahoo and Microsoft plays for sure), its just a subscription service where users rent the music but the hidden costs is added to the handset.
In many cases a full CD is cheaper than the 8.00 cost of full purchase and about 1411kbps rather than 128-192kps quality. Online music should be cheaper as the companies are saving on packing etc...
In many cases a full CD is cheaper than the 8.00 cost of full purchase and about 1411kbps rather than 128-192kps quality. Online music should be cheaper as the companies are saving on packing etc...
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