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Nokia 7710 Vs 9500

41 replies · 12,233 views · Started 03 November 2004

Well, Claudio asked in the news section whether he should get a 7710 or a 9500 and that Wi-Fi wasn't important to him.

To me, even with the Wi-Fi thing, the two devices are completly different and that is because of one, fairly obvious reason. One has a keyboard, but no touch sensitive screen. The other has a touch sensitive screen but no keyboard.

This is important because, no matter what software or comms or bells and whistles a device has, the number one factor in whether you will use it on a daily basis for the next couple of years, or use it for a few days and then tuck it in a drawer and forget about it, is what Computer Programmers call the HCI or the Human\Computer Interface.

Personally, the idea of using a PDA without a stylus is utterly foreign. Having to use some dodgy cursor device to scroll through field after field until you get to the one you actually want to modify or enter text into seems like something out of the dark ages.

If I'm browsing the internet and see a link I want to open, I want to click on it. That's what Web Browsers were developed for! They weren't designed to have you tabbing through in the hope the highlighter might, some time this year, rest on the link you actually want.

If I'm presented with a menu of pragram icons and want to pick one somewhere near the bottom I don't want to have to scroll through all the others. I can see what I want. IT'S RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF ME FOR GOD'S SAKE! I shouldn't have to spend valuable seconds of my life trying to tell my phone which of the things I can already see is the one I want. I just want to point straight to it and, in the manner of a certain character from Little Britain (appologies to those who don't get or watch BBC2) say "I want that one".

If you go to McDonalds (Can't think why you'd want to, but lets just say you did, for the purposes of this example), the conversation with the spotty faced youth at the counter (and I can say that, 'cause I just married a former McDonalds employee <hang head in shame>😉 doesn't go;

SFY "Would you like meal deal number 1?"
ME "No thanks"
SFY "Would you like meal deal number 2?"
ME "No Thanks"
SFY "Would you like meal deal number 3?"
ME "Yes please"
SFY "Would you like full fat coke with that?"
ME "No thanks"
SFY "Would you like Diet coke with that?"
ME "Yes please".......

It goes;

ME "Can I have a number 3 meal with Diet Coke please?"
PFY "Sure, anything else?"
ME " No thanks"

For those that didn't give up reading ages ago, the above example is meant to illustrate that the stylus method more closely represents the interface we humans are used to. When we are presented with a list of options with which we are already familiar, we just go straight to the one we want. we don't need to scroll through umpteen different options. We know we want 5. 1,2,3 and 4 hold no interest for us.

However, with the freedom of a stylus comes a choice. We've made our selection, but now we want to store something in our beloved little device. Whether we've chosen the notepad, the contacts list, text message, e-mail, Word, excel. Whatever it is, odds are we are going to want to enter text of some kind. Now, some clever person or other invented a device many, many years ago that allows us to enter basic text, numbers and a fairly extensive range of symbols in such an efficient way that there can be few people in the so-called civilised world that don't have one in one way, shape or form. The Keyboard.

But keyboards are big. Keyboards are bulky. Keyboards require both hands (and, remember, you are already holding a stylus?). So, the keyboard no longer looks like being the best solution IF you are going to use a stylus based interface. It may be the best method we have for inputting large volumes of text, but it adds to the weight and bulk of your device and you can't use it easily in conjunction with your stick.

So, should you buy a 7710 or a 9500?

Well, think about how you are going to use it. Ask yourself;

1/ Am I going to be entering large volumes of text?
2/ Will I be sending the odd text message, or massess of e-mails?
3/ Will I be amending the odd spreadsheet or word document or am I going to be creating large reports from scratch?
4/ Will I be using the device on the move?
5/ Do I have huge clown-hands that are going to make a small keyboard difficult to use?
6/ Does the convenience of having the worlds greatest device for inputting text outweigh the down-side of it making the device bigger, heavier, less intuitive and impossible to use on the move?

In otherwords, think about YOUR human\computer interface.

For me, the answer would be simple, I'm a stylus kinda guy (in case that hadn't come accross). But the tough thing about HCI is that no two humans are alike. Thank goodness that symbian has such a wonderfull array of different devices to suit us all!

I see your point , Bassey. I'm also a big fan of touch screens. And I would agree with you if we were comparing a Series 60 phone to a UIQ or Series 90 phone. But the thing is that the Communicator range of phones (Series 80) has a full fledged keyboard - meaning that you have keyboard shortcuts for practically everything. The Series 80 interface is very much optimised for keyboard use. And if you're going to count seconds, you should also take into consideration the seconds needed to pull out a stylus for every operation.

Between the 7710 and 9500, for me, the choice is easy. I plan on entering a lot of text and I don't like having the screen exposed (in fear of damage). My choice is of course the Nokia 9500 Communicator. Another important thing (for many) in favour of the Communicator is a fair amount (about 500 various applications) of available 3rd party software. The 7710 (Series 90 platform) is pretty much starting from scratch, much like UIQ in form of the P800. And it took a hell of a long time before the really decent applications were available for that platform.

Like you implied, it's all a matter of preference. I really like the Series 90 UI, after reading the UI style guide from Forum.nokia.com. But I'm a fan of the Communicator form factor and consider WLAN a useful feature. I don't mind the size of the device at all. The smaller the device - the less convenient for practical use (IMO).

And also, like you said, the two devices are very much different - aimed at different market segments. The 7710 is a multimedia oriented PDA, while the 9500 is more of a business oriented handheld computer (sub-laptop).

Great article Bassey!

I'm afraid that i'll go with Raven on this one as i'm a big fan of the Communicator series too and a full QWERTY keyboard is a must for me.Few times i had the pleasure of using one but i never really owned one.Although i can't say that i'm pleased with either of these devices since i'm one of those "i want it all" people.I think i'll get the 9500,the keyboard and WI-FI are very important too me but i really hope that in the near future i'll have the pleasure of using fully featured PDA/Phone device very much alike the old Revo or a 7710/9500 combo.

Thanks Ghostdog! I did mean to expand on the advantages on keyboards and the Communicator in general, but my fingers were sore.

Absolutely agree about the Revo 2005! I really don't understand the logic of NOT putting a touchscreen on the 9500. Though some of today's announcements from Nokia suggest some interesting new form factors might be on the way.

If the 9500 had a touchscreen and I could be certain the synch worked, I would get one. Oh, and I won't be getting a 7710 either. No Wi-Fi. In fact, I look around at the symbian range at the moment, huge as it is, with all these latest announcements and "Coming soon"s, and I don't see anything to get excited about APART from the 9500, and that is lacking in one (for me) hugely important area.

Yes, symbian may be more efficient, more stable, better integrated comms etc., but too many of the latest generation of devices are missing too many of the latest generation of features. And features sell.

7710 - No wi-fi or keypad
9500 - No touch screen or SD (SDIO)
P910i - No wi-fi or mega-pixel camera and uses MSD

By the end of this week, PPC will have a small device with touch-screen, mega-pixel camera and SDIO slot plus a larger device with wi-fi, touch-screen, QWERTY keypad (not 9500 quality, but still), SDIO and 128MB of memory. And more is on the very near horizon.

For the moment, I think the fact that Symbian devices are produced by "the names" like Sony Ericsson, Nokia, Motorola etc will be enough to ensure sales over and above better spec machines that the public haven't heard of (I-mate, Qtek, MDA etc). But I don't think it will last unless they start playing the game. The general public doesn't know that symbian has a proven history, rock-hard stability etc. etc. In fact, they don't even know the 3660 or whatever has symbian in it. But they sure as hell know the name Microsoft!

A Communicator with a touch screen would be the ideal device for me as well, but I think not making 9500's screen touch sensitive was the right move from Nokia. A Series 80 device with a touch screen would be completely redundant. The UI must be optimised for the input methods available. And as the S80 screen resolution is so wide and narrow (640 x 200), poking around on it with a stylus would be a cumbersome experience.

Series 90 however...

Reuters today reported that Series 90 and Series 60 will be merged into one platform (read: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6698762). The second edition of Series 60 has support for QWERTY keyboards. So, merge that with the Series 90 screen resolution (640 x 320) and you'll get a beautiful offspring. 😃
I'm quite confident that we'll see such a Communicator in a years time. In fact there's already a "9600" rumour circling around.

As for SDIO support in the 9500, what for? You already have Wi-Fi built in. And SD cards are basically the same as MMC in physical size, in capacity, in speed, and in price.

I agree with you on one part though, Bassey. It's annoying to see Nokia and other Symbian licensees always leaving out some important feature in their high-end devices. It's understandable though, if you look at it from a business point of view. They have such a wide range of products, so putting all their pennies on one horse wouldn't be the smartest thing to do.

Microsoft on the other hand mostly use some obscure manufacturer to produce devices incorporating their software. These manufacturers have nothing to loose by making the uber-killer-bleeding edge-whatever smartphone.

I think MS Mobile and Palm will remain a USA phenomena for some time still. Those MS and Palm smartphones are hardly selling in Europe and Asia. For example, here in Norway the Palm Treo 600 has only recently become available and is going for 800-1000 Euro. The reason being that they are imported in small quanta, because the demand is low. And you can't pick them up on a contract either, as far as I'm aware.

I also agree that the current Symbian offerings could be better, but for me, the 9500 is very much something to get excited about. I don't see any offerings from Microsoft or Palm really topping it. Although it isn't everyone's cup of tea size-wise and it doesn't have a MP camera or touch screen, it does have a real keyboard, a large screen, good battery life and plenty of memory.

And in a years time, when it's time for me to upgrade, I'm sure there'll be another Symbian device to get excited over. 😃

At the end of the day its all down to personal choice. Some people like qwerty keyboards others prefer touchscreens some people want their devices to do X and others Y.

Yes, in theory it would be great to have a device with all hardware options covered but are you going to use them? I personally have no great need for WiFi or a megapixel camera so why would I want to pay extra for a device with these features I wont use.

Device variety is the most importent thing so everyone can find one that suits them.

Bassey wrote:...
7710 - No wi-fi or keypad
9500 - No touch screen or SD (SDIO)
P910i - No wi-fi or mega-pixel camera and uses MSD
...

Bassey, do you really think you'll use a QWERTY keyboard and a Stylus pen at the same time?
If you look at the PC market, already exists Laptops with touchscreen and keyboard, but in fact you either use the keyboard or the pen!

I believe we'll have two different markets for smartphones: series 80 or series 90.
One combo of series 80/90 will be very expensive and I think you won't need the two human\computer interface in the same equipment.

langdona wrote:Yes, in theory it would be great to have a device with all hardware options covered but are you going to use them? I personally have no great need for WiFi or a megapixel camera so why would I want to pay extra for a device with these features I wont use.

Yeah, but then again you have those "I want it all" freaks like me, Bassey and GhostDog. 😃 😛cguru:

RickyTec wrote:Bassey, do you really think you'll use a QWERTY keyboard and a Stylus pen at the same time?
If you look at the PC market, already exists Laptops with touchscreen and keyboard, but in fact you either use the keyboard or the pen!

Just because you use either one or the other at any one time, doesn't mean you won't use both does it? You use a mouse as a pointer\selector and a keyboard to enter text when using a PC.

A prime example would be entering an appointment in the calendar app. You use the stylus to select the date, start time, end time, tick the box to enable an alarm, use the drop down to pick the alarm but then, you tap in the box where you enter the description and switch to the keyboard.

Well I don't know which, if either, I would have and surely things will always be a compromise. I know what I do want and that is something that gives me a phone with a good chunk of laptop thrown in as well. I can then go about my work when out of the office for a couple of days without having to cart a laptop and a bag of wires around with me. I want an office in a pocket. I do this at the moment with a Clie TH55 and an Ngage. You soon figure out that what you need is both the stylus and keyboard input.

Keyboard for text and stylus for the all the reasons given in the original post but also, and this is key for what I do, the ability to do sketches and take free hand notes where ever you might be. The Clie is great for this and I think I could do likewise with a P910i but how I am not going to write up my notes in the hotel using a stick or the tiny keypad on that beast? I might do it on a 9500 but I won't (as far as I understand) be able to make sketches/freehand notes on the thing. Sure I have the same problem with the Clie/Ngage combo but...

...those helpful people at Sony make an excellent fold up full size keyboard. Bingo! This fills the gap nicely. So until something like the 9500 has a stylus function I'll always look to have a device that can support a portable keyboard. Not the ideal of an all in one device but it all still fits in the inside pocket of the motorbike leathers with room for a toothbrush and credit card.

bullroar wrote:I might do it on a 9500 but I won't (as far as I understand) be able to make sketches/freehand notes on the thing.

Well, you could always get this thing.

Since there is some movemend in the marked from Nokia like S60 se with native keypad support and things like melting the s60 and s90 ui to one more efficient platform is somewhat obvious. I have to remark that there are some signes that there will be an other device in the nea future from Nokia with both qwerty and touchscreen input methods. But it is possibile that this device won't carry a GSM/edge capable communiction port. So you'll be talking about the next netbook with only the Nokia logo instead off Psion sticking on it.

But meanwhile the melting of the s60 se and s90 is a great thing. s90 in free scaleble as is the next version of UIQ (which can handle a non tpuch sensative GUI) so there will even be a competition going on between symbian os driven devices. Think that's alright, keeps them both very awake.....

I'm curious whats going to be released next year.... 😃

Raven wrote:Well, you could always get this thing.

Ah yes that thing, it has appeared on my radar and I am trying to persuade my employers to get me one to play with. However, I think it would require me to carry that strange stuff called paper!!

I guess all this choice is a good thing in one sense. But those of us who their own hard cash for these things have to be sure that the device is going to fit what we do and not the other way round. A point well made by Bassey higher up this thread. I am bidding my time for a while, my hunch is that within the next 12 months or so things might well change significantly. As a punter I have to say these are exciting times for handheld/mobile devices.

I would have thought a pointing device similar to the 'nipple' found in IBM laptops would be the goer for a communicator like device, and I'm surprised it hasn't been integrated into series 80 already..

RickyTec wrote:Bassey, do you really think you'll use a QWERTY keyboard and a Stylus pen at the same time?
If you look at the PC market, already exists Laptops with touchscreen and keyboard, but in fact you either use the keyboard or the pen!

I disagree. The Psion Revo, Series 5 and 7 had both a good keyboard and a touch-screen, and it was a great success! I know a lot of people here still love one of those devices.

Langdona: You said you don't really care about wifi and a 1mp camera.
I feel like we are forgetting another option here. If you DO prefer QWERTY over touch-screen, but don't want a huge device and don't need wifi or a camera, the 9300 is an option too!

Me personally: I would prefer both touch-screen and QWERTY, but that is not available yet with Symbian... So for now the 9500 will do 😉

Quite agree 9300 is an another option for who like qwerty .
I could prefare 7710 only who 're have fame of touch screen.

Delta737 wrote:
Langdona: You said you don't really care about wifi and a 1mp camera.
I feel like we are forgetting another option here. If you DO prefer QWERTY over touch-screen, but don't want a huge device and don't need wifi or a camera, the 9300 is an option too!

The fact is I'm quite happy with my P900 😃

My current requirements do not require me to enter a lot of text so the keyboard is not an issue. Although I might like the basic keyboard on the P910 I dont feel its a big enough advantage to upgrade.

I'm happy with the size, phone functions and reliability of the P900.

I use WAP quite a lot but rarely full internet access.

I use it to keep up to date with E-Mail on the move.

I use it as a virtually stand alone contacts and schedule. I just use the PC as a backup.

I use it as a portable reference tool. Mainly Advanced English Dictionary, World Mate and Steve Litchfields Trivopaedia.

I play games on it.

I rarely use it as a camera or an MP3 player.

I probably will upgrade next year but I'm not in a rush to. I will sit back and see what comes out.

My only point is that someone can argue that a phone should have this or that function which is true from the individuals point of view but not necessarily that of the person sat next to him.

Yes, but the Nokia website doesn't mention that the Nokia BT Keyboard is compatible with the 7710. :frown: Maybe ThinkOutside will develop some kind of driver for their own BT keyboard

Hi guys,
Nokia launching new phones so fastly $ confused the people a lot
<Come to topic > As i would like to know wht u buy ?
Nokia 9500 or upcoming 7710 ?????
Those who really don't need wlan can buy 9500 or wait for 7710 ??
which is better among both ??
waiting for 7710 can worth nokia says they shipped in 4q of 2004 in asia . maybe they cancelled or move to 1q 2005 .
plz guys solve tell wht u buy $ who worth it ???

warm regards
claudio.

claudio,

You may want to consider the Nokia 9300 if WLAN isn't important to you and you still want a full keyboard...

They are all great devices (9500, 9300 and 7710). Basically it's a matter of touch screen vs. keyboard and form vs. function. You have to decide what's more important to you.

Check out this page for a detailed comparison between the three: http://www.nokia.com/phones/comparephones/compare_results.jsp?location=EMEA&language=EN&pageaction=COMP&phone=9500&phone=7710&phone=9300

hi guys, as i current 6670 user i need a media device no bother abt full keyboards $ wlan
tell me which has more features in these devices , i don't care abt price
i wait or buy 9500 .

warm regards
your's claudio.

claudio wrote:hi guys, as i current 6670 user i need a media device no bother abt full keyboards $ wlan

Hmm, sounds like you've already made up your mind there, claudio... If you're into multimedia and keyboards and WLAN isn't important to you, then the choice should be rather simple shouldn't it?

Raven wrote:Hmm, sounds like you've already made up your mind there, claudio... If you're into multimedia and keyboards and WLAN isn't important to you, then the choice should be rather simple shouldn't it?

Mate but i haven't decide wht u buy "double minded" still .

As Raven says, if you don't care about wi-fi or a keyboard and you are really into Multimedia on the go, then the 7710 should suit you just fine. But no-one can say for sure which one you should buy because we don't know you.

Have you tried something like an iMate PDA2K or an iPaq6340 ? These are already available so you should be able to try one of these out at a shop and see if they suit your needs. If they do, then it may be worth waiting for a 7710 as this will be quite similar in size\weight and they are all pen based, but the 7710, being symbian based, should make a better phone than the other two which are PDA's with a phone module built-in.

Qoute: "I disagree. The Psion Revo, Series 5 and 7 had both a good keyboard and a touch-screen, and it was a great success! I know a lot of people here still love one of those devices."

I agree with you Delta,

I'm a long-time user of a Jornada 720 and now also a clie UX-50,
and I can say I use the keyboards and stylus ABOUT 50-50.

It's not always a question of preference, it's (for me) most of the time a question of convenience.

See u guys,
Poly
Ciao! � bient�t! Tsch�ss! Paka! Sayonara!

There have been some rumours that Nokia would combine Series 80 and Series 90 category features in something called the Series 100. According to speculations, it would have a full QWERTY keyboard AND touch screen operation supported.

Now that Nokia has announced they will dump Series 90 and replace it with the new Series 60 (or merge these😉 -- depends on how you want to put it), I'm not sure if this talk about Series 100 is right. Maybe Nokia will just bring touch screen support to Series 80 or use Series 60 in all the future wide screen models except the current Communicator product line?

In any case, I won't be missing the current Series 90 UI. In my experience it's just too difficult, slow and hierarchical. For example Palm OS, Pocket PC and UIQ user interfaces are far more logical and easier to learn. I haven't still got used to Series 90, even though I've tried both 7700 and 7710 for hours. I hope Nokia will come up with something better when merging S60 and S90.

Tero

ebo wrote:In any case, I won't be missing the current Series 90 UI. In my experience it's just too difficult, slow and hierarchical. For example Palm OS, Pocket PC and UIQ user interfaces are far more logical and easier to learn. I haven't still got used to Series 90, even though I've tried both 7700 and 7710 for hours. I hope Nokia will come up with something better when merging S60 and S90.

Tero

Not everyone would agree with you there, Tero... (http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum//forum/thread/29784/).

martinharnevie wrote:Hmmm, what about the 7710 with a BT keyboard? I think that's a real option indeed and with much better keys than the 9500.

Might the BT Frog Pad keyboard work with the 7710? It's one-handed, leaving the other hand free for a stylus.

From what I've seen I prefer the 7710, but like many people have said its down to individual preference. I don't see a mobile/pda as a device for inputting reams of text, more for recreation and organising. If I want to type loads I'll use my laptop.

I (personally) like the design of the 7710, and the stylus/touch screen system suits me just fine. But each to their own.