Nokia flagship stores update

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My experience with the 5800 is entirely contrary to your description. I decided to replace it because I felt like a change but there isn't a phone out there that can compete with it.

I really tend to hate to say things like this, but you're basically wrong.

Whilst you may like the UI, there is no way that it is consistent. Its a very good example of bad UI design, whereas the previous Symbian incarnations were just an example of a relatively dull, but utterly competent UI.

Nokia are definitely not dropping out of the high end market though. The writing for their reworking of the product placement has been on the cards for years.

The Maemo team were rumoured to be working on a device with a SIM card slot several years ago, and they've long since wanted to drop S40 in favour of S60.

So the high end will be primarily Maemo with maybe one or two S60 devices getting close down to spec.

S60 is now covering a fairly wide range (£130-500), with the 5530, 5800, X6 and N97/Mini all having the same core CPU/Memory/screen resolution, with differences in storage and ancilliaries. Not too many years ago S60 would never have been attempted at the lower end.

Originally Posted by clonmult

I really tend to hate to say things like this, but you're basically wrong.

Whilst you may like the UI, there is no way that it is consistent. Its a very good example of bad UI design, whereas the previous Symbian incarnations were just an example of a relatively dull, but utterly competent UI.

I'm not wrong. Unless you can show me the phone that can replace my 5800 I am absolutely right. I would buy it instantly.

The UI is not the phone and is well down the list of what is important to me about a phone. After some months of use everything is easily and instantly achievable anyway - and it often works better than other phones. You may well have taken (as I have) a HCI module for your degree. If so then you might have met the die-hard Unix command line user who can 9 times out of 10 achieve more that the X based UI user in less time.

Originally Posted by clonmult

I really tend to hate to say things like this, but you're basically wrong.

Whilst you may like the UI, there is no way that it is consistent. Its a very good example of bad UI design, whereas the previous Symbian incarnations were just an example of a relatively dull, but utterly competent UI.

Nokia are definitely not dropping out of the high end market though. The writing for their reworking of the product placement has been on the cards for years.

The Maemo team were rumoured to be working on a device with a SIM card slot several years ago, and they've long since wanted to drop S40 in favour of S60.

So the high end will be primarily Maemo with maybe one or two S60 devices getting close down to spec.

S60 is now covering a fairly wide range (£130-500), with the 5530, 5800, X6 and N97/Mini all having the same core CPU/Memory/screen resolution, with differences in storage and ancilliaries. Not too many years ago S60 would never have been attempted at the lower end.

Not too many years ago the lower end was the only choice.

I have just read on ArsTechnica that you actually could NOT buy anything in those stores (US at least) even if you wanted to. Those were in fact showrooms, not stores.
http://arst.ch/axf

What a dumb idea! At least they have most certainly achieved their desired target of zero sales :-)

[Rafe]

I'll comment in more detail later (trying to nail down the story beyond its closing - my thoughts)...

Clearly some reaction to this is going to be negative. But as some have already said it is a business decision. You can argue it represents a failure of the concept retail stores strategy (I think so to an extent), but I wouldn't translate this in to a general Nokia failure, or even a failure of sales strategy. As also said - put it into perspective - this is 3 stores. Nokia still has a logistics / reatail chain / channel that most business would love to have.

Interesting discussion about whether Nokia should have just absorbed in as a loss leader, but that dubious when we don't know the RoI. Presumably they'll put the millions in running costs somewhere else (maybe invest into better online stores?)... or having concept pods in more regular stores?

[RogerPodacter]

These were full regular stores, i bought a few phones from the new work store. They mere not just for showcase only.

Anyway the reason these closings are a big deal is because the usa only has 2 nokia stores in the entire country, chicago and new york. Its not like nokia is closing 2 of their 6 stores or something. Nokia is closing their only 2 stores in north america. These stores were more than just revenue earners, this was their whole image, a place where you can actually hold a phone in your hand before purchasing it. I always visited the new york store when i flew to the east coast from cali. These store closings look much worse than people think. Its very bad.

I have never bought anything from a Nokia store or direct from Nokia online because Nokia products are ALWAYS found cheaper elsewhere.

Originally Posted by RogerPodacter

These were full regular stores, i bought a few phones from the new work store. They mere not just for showcase only.

Anyway the reason these closings are a big deal is because the usa only has 2 nokia stores in the entire country, chicago and new york. Its not like nokia is closing 2 of their 6 stores or something. Nokia is closing their only 2 stores in north america. These stores were more than just revenue earners, this was their whole image, a place where you can actually hold a phone in your hand before purchasing it. I always visited the new york store when i flew to the east coast from cali. These store closings look much worse than people think. Its very bad.

2 Nokia stores is never going to even scratch the surface the USA market. Even in Manhattan and Chicago. New people running the show at Nokia, new ideas.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

2 Nokia stores is never going to even scratch the surface the USA market. Even in Manhattan and Chicago. New people running the show at Nokia, new ideas.

2 stores work better than 0 stores, though. If Nokia has finally reached through to T-Mobile and they will indeed carry the N900 and will subsidize it with their Expect More plans, then closing the flagships can be seen as a change in strategy. Otherwise, it is purely a retrenching. Now that T-Mobile has released its Expect More Plus plans, that don't subsidize phones but cost $10/less per month, unlocked phones finally make more sense for the average user who is also capable of some simple math. Until now, buying an unlocked phone was about features, and not about finances (since you might as well get a "free" or discounted phone if you are stuck with the same price and a 2-year contract anyway).

Let's get one thing straight.

These stores were not about making money from retail. Does anyone believe Nokia thought they could crack the US market with a couple of stores, or the UK with one?

They were 99.9% about building the brand image, and competing head to head with the likes of Apple in the 'cool' stakes. Nokia needed somewhere to have glitzy launches and attract attention - the fact they are closing these down is a sign that Nokia are leaving the battle with their tail between their legs. They are retreating to lick their wounds and focus on the middle ground.

Maybe there is some sense in that strategy, as what they have now isn't able to compete toe-to-toe with many of the other leading smartphones. Maemo/N900 is interesting but not ready for prime-time... yet. However, building reputation and a brand isn't something you do in an afternoon and by closing 3 stores like this, one can only conclude that Nokia don't think they will be ready to return to the top table for quite some time, if at all.

It that, or they are genuinely in financial trouble.

[clonmult]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'm not wrong. Unless you can show me the phone that can replace my 5800 I am absolutely right. I would buy it instantly.

The UI is not the phone and is well down the list of what is important to me about a phone. After some months of use everything is easily and instantly achievable anyway - and it often works better than other phones. You may well have taken (as I have) a HCI module for your degree. If so then you might have met the die-hard Unix command line user who can 9 times out of 10 achieve more that the X based UI user in less time.

I did HCI on my degree back in 88-91, and its something thats always been of interest to me.

I do agree that there is more to the device than just the UI itself, but that is a critical part of the experience. I handed my 5800 over to my stepson, as I really didn't like the UI changes. Every time I tried to do something the UI design was jumping out at me screaming "I've been put together randomly without any real thought". On the flipside the stepson apparently loves the phone.

Personally I'm finding the N85 a more friendly device overall. Consistent UI experience, similar functionality, just as good for music, definitely a much better camera.

Nokias vision over the last few years has been chronically inconsistent though. Whilst there's been the long held view that S60 would be working its way "downmarket" to replace S40, with Maemo taking the high end, they still don't have any true halo models in the range for people to aspire to (Vertu doesn't count). And the overall designs of their Symbian products are generally functional and good on productivity/functionality, the fact that the designs aren't "wow, gorgeous" is the one area that Nokia seriously needs to work on. It looks like the X6 is the first step in the right direction, here's hoping for more.

Its this apparent lack of vision that is at least part of the reason behind the closure of these stores - they're gorgeous places, but the products that they've been trying to promote just don't have the same level of elegance.

Apple are one of the few companies that have got this right across the board - darned near every product looks good, and tends to have a well thought out user experience. Whilst techies and geeks may knock some of the functionality, thats not necessarily what the major of the public actually want.

[spaceprobe]

It strikes me that the problem with Nokia is that they are too complacent. They need to get out there and be aggressive about what they do and sell. Take the 5800 look at what it does for the price. I manage my life with the diary all synced with Ovi. It as become my main sat nav, and I make use of the bluetooth facility. I have never had it hang or required a re set. The music player is great as is BBC Iplayer. All of this for half the price of a Iphone. I had a friend come to visit this week with his brand new Iphone 3GS, he was shocked by the better sound quality and camera on my 5800. The down side is Nokia customer support poor, my phone is still stuck on firmware v21, at least I managed to get Ovi maps 3 on, e mails to Nokia go unanswered. Nokia should not look to flagship stores but get out there and tell people what phones like the 5800 can do. They remind me of Asko, some of you may have heard of them, they are a Swedish washing machine maker. They made upmarket machines of very high quality and cheaper than the market leader the German Miele. However their marketing was poor and customer service hit and miss. They got into financial problems, pulled out of the UK market and ended up getting taken over my a large Italian maker of cheap machines. Wake up Nokia.

[ebo]

Steve Litchfield wrote: "I agree that the flagship stores were about more than just making a profit."

As far as I know, they weren't about making profit at all until the beginning of this year, when Nokia changed its retail strategy.

For example, when Nokia Flagship Store opened in Helsinki, they said openly to journalists it's about marketing and promoting, not about selling phones. You could see in prices of the phones. They were usually the most expensive ones ever.

According to some reports (for example Ars Technica), you couldn't even buy anything in the U.S. Flagship Stores, even if you wanted. So they were supposedly only marketing channels.

As Nokia is doing quite badly in the U.S., I really don't understand how they can do anything that makes them less visible there. A strange move, but maybe we'll here more news about this that would bring some sense into this.

[Fredo14]

I have a problem with my new N97 Mini.
After the hard resset i am not able to make any video call using my Phone.
Could any body has the same problem and how to solve it.
I am using the latest Software V10.0.020.

Thanks

[buster]

I think you need to see Nokia a bit like Microsoft in this case. If Microsoft opened a store, most people would think, so what? as MS is not a "cool" brand like Apple, and does not engender a loyal (some would say fanatical) following in the same way Apple does.

Unless Nokia were going to open several stores in all major US cities, having a couple of stores was never going to make any real difference; them closing is a pity, but is probably totally irrelevant in the greater scheme of things...