Symbian^4, Orbit and the compatibility break

[slitchfield]

In the last few days there has been considerable comment, in various media channels, on some of the changes that are set to be introduced with the Symbian^4 release, including the breaking of backwards compatibility due to the retirement of AVKON and rise of Orbit, which we first reported on back in May. With Symbian starting the process of communicating the changes to developers, and with renewed discussion online, it is worth revisiting the subject. Read on for further details.

Read on in the full article.

So does this basically mean Nokia/Symbian Foundation admit that S60 on 5800 and N97 are far behind competition in terms of UI? And they have nothing new to propose till 2011?
This will not end well for Nokia...

[viipottaja]

Yes and no. I would think there is no particular reason to assume that both SF^2 and SF^3 could not introduce fairly important usability and, apperently more importantly for many, flash graphics and effects etc. Second, AFAIK, the second best selling TS device in the world IS the 5800 so its not like they are in dire straits anyway. With N97, N97 Mini, 5530 and others added to the line up they'll do ok till 2011. Third, they have Maemo 5 rolling out, which may or may not be a significant improvement alredy (ahead of Maemo 6 later).

[Rafe]

That's one spin you can put on it. You can say this about any substantial software update... However as I tried to suggest in the article the thinking behind this is more complicated that just a need to update the UI (which receives disproportionate attention from techies).

The change is really part of an overall move of better positioning a platform strategy for the next 10 years. Symbian's SHAI (which receives little or no attention) might also be considered part of this and could be just as vital.

While I think you can say that the N97's UI is behind compared to its competition, UI is only one element in any device. Incidentally I think the 5800 doesn't really count in this comparison as it currently has no comparative open OS competitors in its segment. Hence why its selling well.

As viipottaja says and I mentioned in the article things aren't going to stand still either.

Symbian ^4 is on devices in around 18 months. Software does not magically appear over night. It takes time to develop. The timescale for Orbit+Direct UI is relatively fast compared to similar projects.

I have upgraded* N82 to 5800 for that reason - I only buy unlocked phones, and basically 5800 has no competition on the market. I am also very familiar with S60.
Indeed there are some UI things on 5800 that feel very strange and need changes (like seeing text twice on the screen when you type on the small on screen keyboard or the need to scroll menus to exit the app, while it could easily fit on screen).

But OS change with breaking compatibility is very difficult and can go very wrong.
- will Nokia keep the schedule or will we see significant delays in this development?
- will developers develop apps for current S60? I would say app market on Symbian is already kind of weak, Ovi store is almost empty (even not everything from Download! is there).
- will current phones sell well now? (I would not buy N97 knowing what is going to happen)
- will Nokia provide OS upgrade for current hardware (looking at the recent history I very much doubt that, Apple provides OS 3 even for the first, 2 years old iPhone model)

I kind of hope for the best case scenario, bit I have many doubts. And I would not agree that "The time-scale for Orbit+Direct UI is relatively fast" - this should be ready one year ago. Nokia should put touch OS as a top priority and investment on the first day iPhone was announced, instead of spending effort and money on non essential things like Navteq acquisition. But that just my opinion :-)

* excluding the camera is in fact sadly very much downgraded, even on N97 (no Xenon)

[celios]

You can say the N97s UI is behind the competition. But you can also say it is unstable and has large bugs and shortcomings in essential functionality.

Reported problems like :- text messages not being delivered, "out of memory" errors, web browser shutdowns/silent crashes, phone not ringing when called or randomly changing to default ringtone, phone not unlocking when unlock button used, phone not allowing calls to be answered, complete spontaneous reboots, messaging application not updating the screen properly... I could go on. This is not UI 'gloss', this is the stuff that makes a phone in 2009.

The whole point of a operating system is to give a degree of stability and application portability on different hardware configurations. However, it seems in the exciting rush to the future ('jam tomorrow', or in 18 months time), the present has been forgotten / neglected and Symbian-based phones seem to be going backwards and not forwards in the stability stakes.

I agree, this will not end well for Nokia or Symbian. They will have precious few of their existing users left if they continue at this rate, no matter how wonderful Symbian ^4 might be.

By the way, to illustrate OS compatibility problems - Nokia was not able to transfer some of it's own, internally developed apps from S30 R3 to R5 - like Nokia Internet Radio (does not work on 5800, no new version), Nokia bluetooth keyboard software (no new version, old version kind of works, but not reliably), Nokia Sports Tracker (no new version, there is only the "unofficial" version on the internet) etc. 5800 is available on the market for 10 months and Nokia cannot handle even this simple transition... What is going to happen with the significant compatibility change?
On top of that some of my applications purchased for older phones simply were not transferred to R5 by the developers. This is not a good sign for the future - those developers simply do not care enough to put time and effort.

[morpheus2702]

Is there any information as to when the first Nokia device running SF will appear (outside of roadmaps)?

Throwing this out there, I think SF will herald the end of the N series. N series devices will still be launched running S60 in 3rd and 5th edition flavours, but when SF appears on a Nokia device, it will be the excuse Nokia needs to launch something new, an 'S series' if you will.

I've read a lot of group tests involving the N97 in the past month (against the latest flagships from Apple, Android and WinMo) and it has come mid-table in many, the UI and speed being the main areas of criticism. Maybe SF is the fresh start Nokia needs to capture the high ground and let S60 migrate to the mid-ground?

[PaulyLaw]

Originally Posted by celios

I agree, this will not end well for Nokia or Symbian. They will have precious few of their existing users left if they continue at this rate, no matter how wonderful Symbian ^4 might be.

haha .. you mean they might be down to just a few billion users!

Get real celios. The harsh truth. Most users dont really care. You know, the majority of users for whom their smartphone is just a phone. The ones who never bother installing any new software to their phone, dont bother rearranging any of the application icons, dont even bother remapping the softkeys. They use it exactly as it is for the length of their contract, and then upgrade to another phone and chuck their old one in a drawer somewhere.

Its really just a tiny, tiny, tiny proportion of users (kind of like the people who come to sites like this) who get worked up about it.

Anyway, the realy future is not in Western Europe of the USA, its in the new markets and Nokia are bettered placed than anyone to expoit these markets.

I have a feeling Nokia / Symbian will do just fine, and for all your concern I bet you buy a Symbian ^4 when one is available ;-)

[celios]

@PaulyLaw, "Nokia profits down 90%"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...a-profits-fall

The future is here already!

"Nokia said it shipped 5m N series phones in the quarter, a lower figure than expected. Devices such as the N95 and N96 have been losing out in the lucrative smartphone category to the iPhone, which has sold more than 17m worldwide, and touchscreen phones from makers such as Samsung and HTC."

Most people won't bother to post on internet forums when the are unimpressed by a phone like the N97, they will either return if for another or just not buy Nokia next time.

I feel really sorry for the N97 user for whom it's just a phone and they never install any new software. Let's hope the poor devils manage to at least get off the v10 / v11 firmware, as it has numerous bugs in the telecommunication side of the device.

Delivering buggy products in the present and talking optmistically about the future will only take you so far. Especially when there is real competition about.

I like what Nokia is doing with Symbian... it makes sense now.

Symbian will be free for all to use and built on

S60 will replace S40 as lower and mid end devices OS

Maemo will be the future of high end devices

Since Maemo & S60 are compatible with QT they can take advantage of Symbian^2 & Symbian^3 developed applications.

In short Nokia is giving out the tools for free apps that they can use in their S60 & Mameo OS. At the same time they can implement the Symbian^# OS if their proprietary S60 and Maemo OS becomes obsolete...

[italic]I feel really sorry for the N97 user for whom it's just a phone and they never install any new software. [/italic]
Unlikely to be many of those, given it comes with Facebook/iPlayer widgets preinstalled on the homescreen and with Ovi Store that - despite its flaws - is pretty simple to use.

[ebo]

I believe the binary break with Symbian^4 is something Symbian OS can live with, because this already happened to some extend when moving from S60 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition too.

At that time many feared developers would not support 3rd Edition or 2nd Edition anymore, but instead 3rd Edition applications started appearing quite fast. Some users of old devices have been disappointed, however, as they did not get all the software for their device anymore.

I believe it could be a larger risk for Symbian not to enhance the platform just to remain compatible with the past.

As a bad example, technology wise, we've seen how desktop Windows hasn't developed pretty much at all for 10 years now, because Microsoft has wanted to keep it compatible. Not much development has happened since Windows 2000 was released.

what does this mean for someone planning buying an S60 phone or upgrading? I hate to buy an N86,N97 and have no software for it in 12 months. I know some people change phones in less than 6 months but some stay with one for at least 3 years. For the average consumer planning to get a phone now. Palm,android, other new OS etc... seem to be more attractive seeing it will still have support 2 years later.

On the other side, it is exciting to see what nokia has instore but seeing this news, they wont get my money now.

Is there a report concerning Qt's performance on Symbian? Qt is a port so there is one more layer between sysyem and UI. How will this affect the performance.

One more question:
How will developers write applications for symbian as there will be 2 environments ( native Symbian C++ and Qt )?
I believe that Qt does not have Active Object support or Client-Server feamework. How should a developer connect Descriptors with QString ???