All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

  #1  
Old 13-07-2009, 10:54 AM
celios celios is offline
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N97... some thoughts/a rant

I think we all agree the N97 is essentially good hardware (except the lens cover that actually scratches the lens as you open it!) let down by bad software. When you think about it, it's hardly suprising that Apple, a company that essentially only produces one phone, can get things right faster than Nokia, a company who felt so confident they even decided to release another smartphone on the same day as the N97!

The growing raft of bugs and problems with the N97 is possibly the point that analysts will be able to look back to and trace the start of Nokia's downfall in years to come. After almost a decade of being a dedicated Symbian user, first with UIQ and then with S60, I am now in the position where I am recommending the iPhone 3GS to friends (even though I've ever owned one) as the N97s bugs and inconsistencies are starting to irritate even me - and I would say I have much more patience that the average user. I am waiting one month from today, and then my N97 will be going on eBay; I'll cut my losses and move on to a Pre, an iPhone or perhaps an Android-based handset (which is in the lead in my mind right now).

If anyone from Nokia - or with a line of communication to Nokia - is reading this, you really need to start diverting resources to the N97 and try and keep this ship afloat before it's too late. If you think you're going to do an N96 (badly buggy product at release that is slowly improved over 12 months), you need to think again.

We need a clear statement about firmware updates - what is planned and for when. Give your loyal early adopters a reason to stay with your 'flagship' product.

Will you be focussing on stability?
Can we exect UI improvements like greater use of kinetic scrolling, or better camera images, increased speed, or even <gasp> a complete fix for the unlock bug!?

Perhaps shoving something out the door and then pretending there are no issues worked in the past, but it's not working now. Take a look at this forum, or over at 'Nokia discussions'. It's no good thinking that your new internet tablet or next phone will save the day... without any backup for the early adopters who have influence of their friends and collegues, there will be a reduced audience awiting the Maemeo based devices and the next flagship N-series device.

A few years ago, it was possible for Nokia to delude itself that it was still leading the market, not following it. That is certainly no longer the case. Nokia, the competition is eating your lunch right now, if you don't improve things soon they'll be moving on to your dinner!

  #2  
Old 13-07-2009, 11:49 AM
dorisall dorisall is offline
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Well I do think the same but you got to remember a couple of things:

1) S60 was designed as a keypad kinda OS, moving to touch is quite a challenge while keeping the base structure intact, but I am impressed on how far they went especially on their second device and also impressed and also surprised on how stable the N97 is (relatively).

2) Kinetic Scrolling is coming to s60v5 on the 5530XM so I would presume a firmware upgrade *hopefully* would do the trick

3) Show any other brand phone with camera capabilities that even come close to the Nokia cameras except maybe some of the Sony Ericssons. The Samsung Omnia HDs "so called" 720p video recording is horrible. Also you gotta remember Nokia's policy about giving you everything in one device, "Its never gonna happen" they need to do that to keep all their portfolio interesting without having just one device hawking up all the spotlight. I hate it but.....

4) When it comes to the iphone, there is NO multitasking so try doing some typing and research at the same time, only a 3.2MP camera with NO flash so taking pictures in a bar or a dimly lit place is impossible. Their OS is fairly basic and thats why it is snappy and stable.

5) The only reason iPhones are popular is because of the apple logo and not their capabilities, I have some friends who paid exorbitant amounts of money to switch to AT&T and get that ridiculously expensive 2-year contract just to get an iphone, and you know what they don't even know about half it features, its just an apple product to them, period (although some use it right) and the reason app store is as big as it is is due to popularity of the device.
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  #3  
Old 13-07-2009, 02:05 PM
nifton nifton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorisall View Post
its just an apple product to them, period (although some use it right) and the reason app store is as big as it is is due to popularity of the device.

And the fact that the majority of iPwnd users are thick enough to pay for an app which we've been using for free for years...

  #4  
Old 13-07-2009, 03:34 PM
celios celios is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nifton View Post
And the fact that the majority of iPwnd users are thick enough to pay for an app which we've been using for free for years...
You can laugh at Apple all you like, but look at the success they've had with 3rd party apps and developers in 3 years - they have more apps that the N97 has after 10+ years of S60 releases!

With the Ovi store Nokia are now visibly playing catch-up in a market they led, and have managed to squander the lead in such a short time. The N97 is looking like the tipping point where they even lose the hard core 'fan boys'.

This is their last chance. It's no good talking about a new OS or a new device next year or 'tomorrow'. If it's anything like 5th Edition, that will all mean starting afresh with new apps.

Right now hundreds of thousands of Nokia owners have an unstable device with various glitches (some serious, some trival), what seems to be a huge hardware problem (the lens cover issue) and no idea if or when any of this stuff will be fixed.

I feel like I paid Nokia 500 to enter their Beta test programme!.

  #5  
Old 13-07-2009, 04:15 PM
dorisall dorisall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celios View Post
You can laugh at Apple all you like, but look at the success they've had with 3rd party apps and developers in 3 years - they have more apps that the N97 has after 10+ years of S60 releases!
S60v5 has only been around for less than a year and already in the last couple of days Ovi store has grown and added more apps.

Plus the iPhone is an "American" product with mostly american consumers, so obviously apps will be created faster because well, its america. While the N97 and Symbian in general is more of a European product.


Quote:
Right now hundreds of thousands of Nokia owners have an unstable device with various glitches (some serious, some trival), what seems to be a huge hardware problem (the lens cover issue) and no idea if or when any of this stuff will be fixed.

I feel like I paid Nokia 500 to enter their Beta test programme!.
Well have you heard of the 3GS overheating problems, enough to burn a persons leg and the color off the back plastic. Rattling noises inside.

Every device has its faults. For the longest time the iPhone didn't even have MMS capability, WOW, and people still said "Aaah, thats the best phone eva" just to prove that it is simply a status symbol like the Nokia 8800 Arte series nothing more.

Anyway I am not trying to start a whole Nokia vs. iPhone war yet again and I do agree that the iPhone is a very good device but it is very different than Symbian and it targets different people and Nokia like always aren't trying to copy but they are trying to be themselves and come up with original ideas which is what made them No.1. Although once in a while they tend to come up with pretty stupid ideas that make people go WTF were they thinking

So I hope you don't give up hope and remember that the N97 came out less than month ago so in a couple of months we will see some pretty good additions and improvements
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  #6  
Old 13-07-2009, 04:23 PM
jim_0068 jim_0068 is offline
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Please note:

1) I'm a cell phone enthusiast and currently a jailbroken iphone user
2) I owned and used the n97 for 2 weeks before i brought it back
3) I have owned many different platform phones and currently am awaiting arrival for the HTC Hero and most likely will pick up a touch pro 2

- iphone (stock) versus nokia n97 = nokia n97 romp (for the most part). The only thing iphone wins is ease of use and the fluid ecosystem of itunes, the app store, and how it combines it all in 1 easy package.

- iphone (jailbroken) versus nokia n97 = iphone wins by a slight margin in my opinion. The only reason i would own a nokia n97 over a jailbroken iphone at the moment is for the more "open OS" that allows me to do what i want without having to hack it and for the better camera.

--------------------------------------------------------

To be honest if you sat me or really any other cell phone enthusiast who has used multiple platforms in a room with nokia software people or whoever is responsible for the s60v5 edition i could tell them what they need to fix to make it A LOT more popluar. There really isn't THAT much that would need to be changed but there are a lot of really stupid "what the hell did they do that for" kind of things that if fixed would probably make the reviews better.

  #7  
Old 13-07-2009, 04:39 PM
dorisall dorisall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim_0068 View Post
To be honest if you sat me or really any other cell phone enthusiast who has used multiple platforms in a room with nokia software people or whoever is responsible for the s60v5 edition i could tell them what they need to fix to make it A LOT more popluar. There really isn't THAT much that would need to be changed but there are a lot of really stupid "what the hell did they do that for" kind of things that if fixed would probably make the reviews better.
Amen
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  #8  
Old 13-07-2009, 04:51 PM
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davecozens davecozens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorisall View Post
in a couple of months we will see some pretty good additions and improvements
I'd like to see 'em fix the lens cover scratching issue with firmware!
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  #9  
Old 13-07-2009, 06:19 PM
celios celios is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim_0068 View Post
To be honest if you sat me or really any other cell phone enthusiast who has used multiple platforms in a room with nokia software people or whoever is responsible for the s60v5 edition i could tell them what they need to fix to make it A LOT more popluar. There really isn't THAT much that would need to be changed but there are a lot of really stupid "what the hell did they do that for" kind of things that if fixed would probably make the reviews better.
My point exactly - so why did they release S60 5th Ed without such obvious testing?

And why are simple things like the problem with the unlock bug still not fully fixed?

Why design a camera lens cover that is SURE to damage the lens itself?

Are Nokia napping? What has happened here. This, as we are so often told, is supposed to be the leading phone company in the world.

Asleep on the job?
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Old 13-07-2009, 06:58 PM
dorisall dorisall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celios View Post
My point exactly - so why did they release S60 5th Ed without such obvious testing?

And why are simple things like the problem with the unlock bug still not fully fixed?

Why design a camera lens cover that is SURE to damage the lens itself?

Are Nokia napping? What has happened here. This, as we are so often told, is supposed to be the leading phone company in the world.

Asleep on the job?
I really wish when someone is having an interview with Nokia to ask them that, because I am sure there are thousands out there who share the same concern. Nokia, what state of mind are you in?????

Any normal company would test any moving mechanism back and forth and see how it should hold. Apparently they are all blind at Nokia.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. I never experienced any trouble with the lock/unlock switch with both firmwares, mine works flawlessly, also my lens cover doesn't even have a dust trail from the mechanism.
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Old 15-07-2009, 10:35 AM
rdcinhou rdcinhou is offline
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Remember that the Nokia E90 also has a screen scratching problem caused by the tolerances between the keyboard and the display--the keys and key ridge would scratch the display when closed.
 

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