Much has been made of the Apple iPhone and T-Mobile G1's capacitive touchscreens, with many proclaiming them superior to the humble 'resistive' touchscreens that have been used since the dawn of time (oh, ok, since about 1995). But is it as simple as the one technology being superior? What advantages does 'resistive' tech have and what else do you need to know?
Read on in the full article.
Yesterday, while riding on the bus here in Macao, I saw a Chinese youngster happily switching between on-screen keyboard and Chinese character drawing input on his iPhone. He sketched the character and then chose the correct one from a list appearing to the side of the drawing area. Didn't seem to have any problems with accuracy from what I could see.
I recall reading about typing speed being better on the capacitive screen.
I just don't get the idea of resistive vs capacitive screens being complementary - only in the sense that one is a budget option, and the other is what you really want.
Resistive screens are old technology. Trying out the the 5800 the first impression I got was "this is like my old iPaq". You definitely need the stylus - at least until Symbian 5 is properly optimised for touch.
I'm no Apple fanboy, far from it. But the iPhone's screen continually impresses me. A friend of mine treats his phones really poorly - no case, never mind a screen protector. But after 6 months, his iPhone is still pristine. How long could you say that about any resistive screen?
As for the operating temperature range of each screen technology, I'd be interested to know if the range quoted is only based temperatures quoted for Nokia resistive screens, the inference being that do they specifiy screens to match the Finnish climate?
If the future is stylus-shaped and global warming triggers the next Ice Age (as in the Day After Tomorrow) then I'd agree and say yes, resistive has a future beyond being a budget option.
@morpheus: I disagree, resistive tech doesn't REQUIRE a stylus, the 5800 works well enough with just a finger. And, re: budget option, is that a bad thing? Surely phones which cost less to make and which sell for less, and phones which bring smartphone tech down into the mid-tier is good for lots of people?
I don't disagree that Capacitive touch is perhaps better for more things than resistive, on balance, but reports of Resistive touch's death have been greatly exaggerated.
I'm not sure the actual difference between the two technologies is all that great, but the user interfaces make it seem so. TomTom have had no problems with resistive screens, but since their devices are intended to be prodded with fingers from a couple of feet away their UI is designed accordingly. S60 and Windows Mobile were designed for buttons and stylus input respectively, so you can't expect them to be finger friendly without any major changes to the interface. I'm sure if you ran the iPhone OS on a resistive screen it would be fine for fingers but weak when needing the precision of a stylus, because that's how it was designed.
Personally I use a 5800 because it's cheap. If there was another similarly featured phone that had a proper keypad for as good a price then I would ditch touch altogether.
Having said that though, it's a fine phone and the touch screen is more than adequate. It would be nice to have a car capable of 200mph, but my car does more than I need. Same with a resitive screen.
Given the choice, I'd go for capacitive. But mostly just for the durability (or perhaps just perceived durability. You feel more confident and less protective about the device).
I've used both the iPhone and 5800 a fair amount. And yes, the sensitivity of the iPhone screen is great, but I don't have any problems with the 5800 screen either.
They both require a different techniques, that's all.
iPhone - fingerpad
5800 - finger tip
I think alot of people use the iPhone and then expect the 5800 to work in the same way (fingerpad). That does not work well.
Once you get in the habbit of using the fingertip, then it's fine (for me and the mrs at least). Though not as good as the iPhone, I suspect that is in part responsiveness of software related as well.
Also agree with Steve about the resistive being much more precise.
Been a few months, but I'm sure I played with some paint type programs on the iPhone and it did not have the same satisfying feel as using a stylus with the 5800.
On a seperate note, software is critical to the choice. The 5800 would probably work quite well with a capacitive screen. but I'm also considering a Toshiba TG01 and and used to have a Nokia N810.
Dispite the big (4.1 inch) screen I don't think they would work well with a capacitive screen. Too many bits of the interface that require precise input.
I like the whole finger based input fad. But it's not all +++.
Havinig to make everything 'bigger' does result in less information immediately at your fingertips (pun intended). 😊
At least with Resistive, both options, small buttons etc. (use carefully/slowly or quick with stylus) or big easy to prod buttons are available.
Zuber
Seems everyone is forgetting one thing - The General public. And what do the masses want? Easy to use, durable capacitive TS. You think general joe public will buy a phone that comes with a stylus? Hell no they'll want one that they can EASILY use wtb their hands so that they don't seem "nerdy" which is what Resitive IE stylus TS are seen as still, or for business users but either way it isn't the technology that will be used in the future, capacitive will be, I mean Apples own Mobile OSX is now on 30 million devices and growing still, that's 30 million people using a finger friendly OS with a capacitive TS, the future is capacitive, thank God.
The ONLY pro Resistive has is that stupid thing all the Resistive followers fall back on :"But you can't use it in the winter with gloves on har har!!" so what, be a man and take the gloves off ya pansies 😛
Iain 117 wrote:The ONLY pro Resistive has is that stupid thing all the Resistive followers fall back on :"But you can't use it in the winter with gloves on har har!!" so what, be a man and take the gloves off ya pansies 😛
No matter what article you publish and even if you do not go about hitting the iphone, there will be some fan who wants to come and throw figures about sales and how this is better and how that is better...
The important thing is that the general public really will not care whether the screen is Resistive or Capacitive. What will be important is the ease of use and how flexible the technology is is bringing in a wow factor. Do remember that both iphone and 5800 just talk about the phone been touch, not 'our phone offers superior Resistive or Capacitive technology'
@Iain: "The ONLY pro Resistive has is that stupid thing all the Resistive followers fall back on :"But you can't use it in the winter with gloves on har har!!" so what, be a man and take the gloves off ya pansies"
Did you even READ my article?? That was the one thing I debunked, etc.
Resistive screen can be more powerful, useful, responsive and modern if well done.
Stantum Precision Multitouch "TouchPark" Technology on resistive touch screen is a very good example. but it needs a Pmatrix-powered chip in order to use it in Nokia touch phone.
I am interested to know whether Nokia will be the first to implement this great ever feature to its future touch phone!
Stantum > iPhone Multitouch!
Tat Mobile UI > iPhone UI
Iain 117 wrote:Seems everyone is forgetting one thing - The General public. And what do the masses want?
Low prices. Have you been following the news?
Iain 117 wrote:
The ONLY pro Resistive has is that stupid thing all the Resistive followers fall back on :"But you can't use it in the winter with gloves on har har!!" so what, be a man and take the gloves off ya pansies 😛
Wrong. Gloves are bad on capacitive and resistive. Forget touch, buttons are the way. One handed simple operation that doesn't require you to hold the thing in front of your face.
morpheus2702 wrote:I just don't get the idea of resistive vs capacitive screens being complementary - only in the sense that one is a budget option, and the other is what you really want.Resistive screens are old technology. Trying out the the 5800 the first impression I got was "this is like my old iPaq". You definitely need the stylus - at least until Symbian 5 is properly optimised for touch.
I'm no Apple fanboy, far from it. But the iPhone's screen continually impresses me. A friend of mine treats his phones really poorly - no case, never mind a screen protector. But after 6 months, his iPhone is still pristine. How long could you say that about any resistive screen?
As for the operating temperature range of each screen technology, I'd be interested to know if the range quoted is only based temperatures quoted for Nokia resistive screens, the inference being that do they specifiy screens to match the Finnish climate?
If the future is stylus-shaped and global warming triggers the next Ice Age (as in the Day After Tomorrow) then I'd agree and say yes, resistive has a future beyond being a budget option.
I use the 5800 with my finger no problem. However, I use the stylus for things that require precision. A good example being making a route on viewranger. Theres no way you can use a finger, or even a fingernail to do that.
I got my 5800 on release, and it's still pristine. Will it last 6 months or more? I reckon it will, easy.
So thus, no, I don't want capacitive touch. I'll keep my 5800 thanks (although a newer version the same size with a better camera, integrated compass and mass memory would be welcome).
Yes Steve I did read your article, I said the Resistive loyalists say that, not your article, did you even READ my post??
And to the Stantum and Tat fellow, in what way does the Tat Mobile UI beat out the iPhone UI in terms of Multi touch?
And the OSX is on 30+ million devices, how many is this Tat UI on? 'Nuff said.
And to Unregistered, if the general public wanted low prices, then why do high priced products even exist then? Why has the iPhone Platform sold over 30 million Devices? With over 800 MILLION downloads from the Appstore? Yeah, you're definitely right :rollseyes:
Bartman, you'll stay with the 5800 because it's cheap, you can't afford to buy something premium like the N97 or iPhone just like you couldn't afford to buy the N95. That's why you don't neede Capacitive.
I'm sorry but I just feel like if Nokia used Capacitive most of these comments would have their tune changed 😉 If their was no cost penalty for using Capacitive over Resistive then I bet everyone here would want it on their TS handsets, and technology only gets cheaper 😉
I am (purely) guessing Nokia is using resistive for now for the following reasons, in rough order of importance:
1) China and other Asian markets. China is THE biggest market for N Series and probably for 5800 too
2) Strategic supply and logistic chain reasons.
3) Price (linked to 2)
4) Because (I hope) they are soon going to put Haptikos into a commercial product (probably a Maemo internet tablet) and then roll it out from there to a range of devices (linked to number 2 above). Yeah I know, this one is perhaps just me dreaming... 😊
5) because there are still a few elements here and there in S60 TS that requires precision of touch with stylus.
Iain 117 wrote:And the OSX is on 30+ million devices, how many is this Tat UI on? 'Nuff said.
So since windows and symbian is on more devices, both those UIs are better than OSX? Flawed argument of a fanboy number 1.
Iain 117 wrote:
And to Unregistered, if the general public wanted low prices, then why do high priced products even exist then? Why has the iPhone Platform sold over 30 million Devices? With over 800 MILLION downloads from the Appstore? Yeah, you're definitely right :rollseyes:
Check the sales figures of cheaper phones. The 5800 especially, since it has outsold the iphone given similar timeframes, and yet it's still a smartphone.
And what on earth does the appstore (which is a very good success and shows where nokia are badly failing) have to do with highend phones?
Iain 117 wrote:
Bartman, you'll stay with the 5800 because it's cheap, you can't afford to buy something premium like the N97 or iPhone just like you couldn't afford to buy the N95. That's why you don't neede Capacitive.
And there you go, showing fanboy colours at last.
Automatically assuming I don't have an iphone because I can't afford it. When in actual fact it does very little of what I want.
1. I want applications such as viewranger and fully usable satnav.
2. I need to be able to multitask (i.e. have VR running while listening to music, and replying to texts).
The N97 is WAY too big. And I don't want a solid qwerty. If I couldn't afford it, I wouldn't have gone - 6110N - E66 - N85 - 5800. I still have the E66 as a spare in case I lose my primary phone.
Iain 117 wrote:
I'm sorry but I just feel like if Nokia used Capacitive most of these comments would have their tune changed 😉 If their was no cost penalty for using Capacitive over Resistive then I bet everyone here would want it on their TS handsets, and technology only gets cheaper 😉
Since you are obviously very biased, we know you are not right. It's a shame typical fanboys like you make it a nightmare for the ones that actually buy apple products for using them rather than fashion accessories.
Give me the preferance - resistive. While I would prefer the greater responsivness of capacitive, I am used to the 5800s screen and would hate to be without my stylus for things such as viewranger.
My biggest gripe about resistive is the screen in sunlight - thats a real pain.
"I'm sorry but I just feel like if Nokia used Capacitive most of these comments would have their tune changed 😉 If their was no cost penalty for using Capacitive over Resistive then I bet everyone here would want it on their TS handsets, and technology only gets cheaper 😉"
I don't think that is necessarily right.
Looking at the wife's 5800 (formerly an iPhone user till someone dropped it in the fishtank), I'd say it was not significantly worse for selecting things (hardware wise, not talking software) than the iphone. Yes you have to actually tap the screen rather than feather touch it, but as long as you get used to using finger tips it's fine.
Now if they could have made it more resistant to scratching as well (not that I've tested it), then I'd choose it over the iPhone screen. Why, since there are times when I like looking at websites that read best when zoomed out and would much rather use the stylus to select links than zooming in/out.
Finger based is simpler, but when sat comfortably with time to read etc. I don't mind using a stylus to be able to select things precisely. And prefer it to having to zoom in and out.
On a similar point, it would be interesting to see how well the iPhone works with new copy paste functionality (about time) because of the capacitive screen. Selecting specific areas of text without accidently picking up too many/too few chacters might be tricky. It's hard enough with a stylus ot a mouse sometimes. Unless Apple have come up with some clever way of getting round it (but that's not the screen technology).
Zuber
Zuber
Iain 117 wrote:And to Unregistered, if the general public wanted low prices, then why do high priced products even exist then? Why has the iPhone Platform sold over 30 million Devices? With over 800 MILLION downloads from the Appstore? Yeah, you're definitely right :rollseyes:
You are clutching straws now. There's a market for both premium and low cost and a specturm between. It's just that cheaper is more popular and in these economic times it's the luxuries that are cut first.
I don't get the relevance of app store downloads to a touch screen technology discussion. But the 5800 is a blinding success, because it's affordable and does everything people need.
"So since windows and symbian is on more devices, both those UIs are better than OSX? Flawed argument of a fanboy number 1."
Wow, you're comparing numbers from OS's that have been out for more than 10 years to an OS that has been out for 2? You're smart 😊 Whatever way you try to spin my comments, 30 million devices in 2 years is a hell of a feat, especially for a newcomer.
"Check the sales figures of cheaper phones. The 5800 especially, since it has outsold the iphone given similar timeframes, and yet it's still a smartphone.
And what on earth does the appstore (which is a very good success and shows where nokia are badly failing) have to do with highend phones?"
I wasn't arguing the fact that cheap phones sell (Hey, there's always going to be poor people, right?) I was stating the fact that because their is High end stuff at all, the market is obviously there. The appstore had nothing to do with anything really, I just thought the numbers were impressive so threw them in there 😛
"And there you go, showing fanboy colours at last"
And there you go, showing your ignorance. I'm not an Apple fanboy, if anything I'm a technology fanboy, I use a Windows Vista PC (Only ever used a Mac twice and because of the iPhone it has made me more interested in them) and I have owned phones from Nokia, SE, Samsung, Sagem(!), Motorola among others, my forum username is IainsTheName, check out my post history and you'll see I used to own an N95, and that I think very highly of Nokia. I go with the times Bartman, if something doesn't do it for me i'll move onto something that does.
Nokia wasn't making a TS phone so I eventually went with the iPhone 3G, I didn't get the 1st Gen as it didn't have the Appstore and was for all purposes, a dumb phone.
I've seen you mention more than once that you got your 6610 or whatever it was instead of the N95 was because of price, you couldn't justify the extra money for "Just Wi-fi capability" So my original comment is still true.
"Since you are obviously very biased, we know you are not right. It's a shame typical fanboys like you make it a nightmare for the ones that actually buy apple products for using them rather than fashion accessories"
Again Bartman - I am no Fanboy, I use an iPhone yes, I gave my N95 to my Girlfriend (Who loves it, btw) But that doesn't make me a Fanboy, yes I prefer my iPhone to other devices RIGHT NOW on the market, but that could change in the future - IE the Omnia HD has caught my attention with its ability to record HD Video 😉
To be honest I would say I'm more the person who buys the Apple product to use it (Mine is currently Jailbreaked for Video recording and themes) instead of the crowd that just buys it for it's looks and stays with the stock look 😊
"My biggest gripe about capacitive is the screen in sunlight - thats a real pain"
Then I suggest you use one in the sun, my iPhone is A LOT more readable in direct sunlight than my old P900/P910i was (Oh no, something that isn't an Apple Product?!)
Capacitive is better, end of.
slitchfield: There is stylus available for capacitive touch screens (it's not rocket science) if you like the retro stuff.
yada yada yada, Steve Balmer just explained why resistive is still most used...price...its cheap...
if
Wow, you're comparing numbers from OS's that have been out for more than 10 years to an OS that has been out for 2? You're smart 😊 Whatever way you try to spin my comments, 30 million devices in 2 years is a hell of a feat, especially for a newcomer.
Indeed, but the point still stands. Besides of which, the length of time they have been out in the mobile world doesn't actually make much difference. Not many people have 10 year old phones.
You want to measure the amount that just have phones 2 years old or newer? but theres still a much greater margin in it.
I wasn't arguing the fact that cheap phones sell (Hey, there's always going to be poor people, right?) I was stating the fact that because their is High end stuff at all, the market is obviously there. The appstore had nothing to do with anything really, I just thought the numbers were impressive so threw them in there 😛
So because someone chooses a phone thats more suited to them and it is not a highend model they are poor? That's a stupid assumption at worst, snobbery at best.
I've seen you mention more than once that you got your 6610 or whatever it was instead of the N95 was because of price, you couldn't justify the extra money for "Just Wi-fi capability" So my original comment is still true.
Indeed, and why not? That doesn't make me 'poor', nor does it mean I choose the wrong phone. I don't even use wifi on my 5800 as it happens. Tell you what, why don't you try and find me a phone that does everything the 5800 can do (including VR and satnav), and is not bigger? Any price, just find one.
No? Thats because there isn't one.
Then I suggest you use one in the sun, my iPhone is A LOT more readable in direct sunlight than my old P900/P910i was (Oh no, something that isn't an Apple Product?!)
I actually meant resistive - that's one thing I don't like about my 5800. For the record, I changed it before you posted.
You might claim not to be an apple fanboy. But you are clearly a current device fanboy - whatever you have is the best out. And seem to have this horrible snobbery, so yes, I am afraid that whatever you say is biased. 🙄
Capacitive is better, end of.
The losing argument. If you had read the article, you would see theres pros and cons for each. But in the mere fact at least one person prefers resistive, you are made wrong in your catch all statement.
"slitchfield: There is stylus available for capacitive touch screens (it's not rocket science) if you like the retro stuff."
I think I saw one of those advertised. From what I remember, it was quite fat and 'finger' like. And so not much use for recise input.
Do more accurate ones exist and do they let you choose precisely on a capacitive screen?
I'm actually considering an Omnia HD (if it's not stupidly priced) and so might be interested in it.
"But you are clearly a current device fanboy - whatever you have is the best out."
Doesn't that apply to most people ? After all, if it wasn't the best choice, why would I buy it 😊
Zuber
"Indeed, but the point still stands. Besides of which, the length of time they have been out in the mobile world doesn't actually make much difference. Not many people have 10 year old phones.
You want to measure the amount that just have phones 2 years old or newer? but theres still a much greater margin in it."
A better comparison I think would be the High end Symbian devices in the last 2 years and well, WM devices in the last 2 years seems as though most of them are high end.
"So because someone chooses a phone thats more suited to them and it is not a highend model they are poor? That's a stupid assumption at worst, snobbery at best.
Indeed, and why not? That doesn't make me 'poor', nor does it mean I choose the wrong phone"
Not poor, just don't see why anyone with the money would buy something that's inferior when they could get the superior model. For example yes I could buy a low grade HDTV from Asda for �500, but i'd much, much rather spend the �2k needed to get the full lovely 50" version with 1080p support etc. why? Because:
1) The higher price item will most likely have better quality materials used for it's construction
2) Because of higher build materials used, most likely to last longer/be more durable
3) Because it is more expensive it will have better features
No one in their right mind would buy something that's worse than what they COULD get? Makes no sense?
"I don't even use wifi on my 5800 as it happens. Tell you what, why don't you try and find me a phone that does everything the 5800 can do (including VR and satnav), and is not bigger? Any price, just find one.
No? Thats because there isn't one."
Why don't you use WIFI? It's free in enough places these days to warrent usage plus WIFI at home, or do you still use 56k because while boradband is better, 56k does the same thing but is cheaper?
"You might claim not to be an apple fanboy. But you are clearly a current device fanboy - whatever you have is the best out. And seem to have this horrible snobbery, so yes, I am afraid that whatever you say is biased. 🙄"
I guess you got me there, yeah I do think my iPhone 3G is currently the best device on the market right now for UI, many people would agree with me on this fact, in fact MILLIONS would I guess 😊
BUT if something else came along with a better UI then I'd switch to that which imo doesn't make me a fanboy and hence my opinions not biased.
You however (Judging from your list) have only owned Nokia phones and you are a MOD on a Nokia website (Nigh on) and a Nokia Forum, so who, is the more biased of the two of us? Hmmm
""But you are clearly a current device fanboy - whatever you have is the best out."
Doesn't that apply to most people ? After all, if it wasn't the best choice, why would I buy it 😊"
Finally someone with common sense, thanks Zubar (Y)
Not poor, just don't see why anyone with the money would buy something that's inferior when they could get the superior model. For example yes I could buy a low grade HDTV from Asda for �500, but i'd much, much rather spend the �2k needed to get the full lovely 50" version with 1080p support etc.
Because it's not needed? A fantastically stupid argument!
Why don't I buy a bigger house with 10 bedrooms. I won't use them but hey...
Why would I want something with wifi if I don't use it? I also didn't like the size.
It appears you simply want the device for it's presence, not functionality no matter how much you argue.
As I said before, I really don't want anything as big as the N97. Nor a hardware qwerty.
Why don't you use WIFI? It's free in enough places these days to warrent usage plus WIFI at home, or do you still use 56k because while boradband is better, 56k does the same thing but is cheaper?
You just don't get it do you? You obviously do not take into account people have different uses to you.
Why do I need wifi? Answer me that. I have a weather app, might use google maps occasionally, and send MMS. And a few satnav related data things.
All of which tale out a tiny amount of data from my data allowance. And all of those are used when I am not in range of wifi.
You however (Judging from your list) have only owned Nokia phones and you are a MOD on a Nokia website (Nigh on) and a Nokia Forum, so who, is the more biased of the two of us? Hmmm
Well, then you might have seen me moan and frequently complain about -
Nokias:
Build quality
Maps software (awful, just awful)
Lack of apps store
Customer service
I am not a fanboy by any means, which is obvious by my posts. Fact of the matter is, if something comes out better for me I will jump to it.
But like I said, can you find anything that has the same specs and apps as the 5800? Simply, no you can't. And thats why I consistantly stay with Nokia (and have ventured into others, thankye), as they offer the specs I want (almost) in the form factor and size I want.
Just to add in a different bit of info.
Having used the 5800 a lot and spent a few hours with the Omnia HD and some time with the N97 I'd have to say that overall capacitive versus resistive made very little overall difference in device usage. It certainly wasn't a quantum leap either way - to my mind the physical size made a bigger difference.
That's partly because the platform doesn't use some of the things capacitive allows for (e.g. multi-touch), but it is probably also a reflection of the S60 philosophy to be as flexible as possible.
There are other factors that make a much bigger difference between the above device (and the iPhone / G1) that are not connected the screen technology. A lot of the benefits that people talk about for capacitive, with regard to the iPhone, are not down to the screen technology. I would say capacitive screen's main advantage are outdoor clarity and sensitivity.
One area which hasn't been commented on so much is materials. Glass is preferable to some (and tends to scratch less), but is prone to catastrophic failure (smashing). The plastics used on resistive tend to scratch somewhat more easily, but deform under stress rather than shatter.
Essentially its about context - is one worse or better than the others? It depends on requirements!
Assuming stuff like handwriting / accuracy / materials don't matter to you I would say that until capacitive capabilities are fully exploited in the OS I don't think there's any significant difference that would outweigh other factors in why people might purchase one phone over the other. I'm not saying no difference, but there's other factors which are much more important.
Why bother with either. It's a matter of back to the future with keypads...scratch resistant, great feedback, works in all temperatures, visible midday and midnight, indoors and outdoors, no sacrifice of screen space..I could go on. Touch screens are a big waste of time and I cannot believe people fall victim to the hype.
Iain 117 wrote:Doesn't that apply to most people ? After all, if it wasn't the best choice, why would I buy it 😊"
The best choice for your personal circumstances and preferences.
I have a few things that I consider to be the best. I'm not inclined to cry all over internet discussion forums about them and try and defend them to the end despite a hopelessly lost argument.
That's the difference between a sad fanboy and a normal user.