Orange SPV is better than Nokia 7650

[thejpzr]

Originally Posted by MemphisX

The best will emerge victorius by the number of it's customers, right?

not exactly: that what counts for operators most are those customers who generate the most GPRS (or data in general) traffic...

and guys from Orange told me that SPV generates much more GPRS traffic than symbian phones.... 8)

[MaleBuffy]

This is another reason why poeple prefer Symbian phones......lower cost! 8)

[GhostDog]

Dont you think that this is geting really boring.

Reading jpzr's posts one right ofter the other reminds of people that shout so they can get their message trough,it doesn't work really

[MemphisX]

FANBOYS... ALL ALIKE. Even if you want to calm them down they will stick to what they think. It doesn't matter what they love. ATI, nVidia, Intel, AMD, Sony, Philips fanboys? All alike. They don't care about the truth. They believe that the stuff they bought are the best because they just have the brand name they love. They don't even know what open mind people are. They will never grow up. On the past we were speaking about liverpool , real madrid, juventus, milan fans. Now we speak about them. Every single company on the world wants to have fanboys. After all they are free, the only payment they give to them is MARKETING and ADDS. They are just PAWNS. They are their PUPPETS...

Originally Posted by thejpzr

I don't want to down you, but MS Smarpthone OS has "incremental update technology" that makes it possible to make partial software updates over the air - thing that no symbian phone has.

The reason M$ $martphone OS has "incremental update technology" is because M$ knew that users would constantly be finding new bugs/security holes in the OS and so the users would just be fed up of having to go to a service centre everyday to get their phone flashed! Symbian doesn't need over the air technology cos it's users won't be on first name terms with their local service point unlike M$ $martphone users!!

Sunil

[thejpzr]

Originally Posted by MemphisX

FANBOYS... ALL ALIKE. Even if you want to calm them down they will stick to what they think. It doesn't matter what they love. ATI, nVidia, Intel, AMD, Sony, Philips fanboys? All alike. They don't care about the truth. They believe that the stuff they bought are the best because they just have the brand name they love. They don't even know what open mind people are. They will never grow up. On the past we were speaking about liverpool , real madrid, juventus, milan fans. Now we speak about them. Every single company on the world wants to have fanboys. After all they are free, the only payment they give to them is MARKETING and ADDS. They are just PAWNS. They are their PUPPETS...

it is not always matter of "fans", sometimes it is matter of moral choices. I doubt that you will ever understand it though...

and by the way: where would you prefer to get your (mobile) software from? from a group of HARDWARE manufacturers or from the largest SOFTWARE corporation in the world? which is more competent in SOFTWARE? heh?

cell phone hardware will become sooner or later a commodity available very cheaply from East Asia as it is in PC computers, and that what will really matter will be software.

and the message to all of you who criticize MS: if you use MS Windows at home or at work but criticize MS's cell phones then you are not sincere...

[MemphisX]

Well you don't get it pal, do you. We buy what it benefits up best. We buy what is the best choice now,NOT what it will be best later (and if it's gonna be best we don't know). Microsoft has the monopoly on the pc os market, so do we have many choices? I have 3 os on my computer because ms is not doing their job right (win98 for compatibility, winxp for stability and mandrake linux). And do you think it's more moral to buy an MS product than a nokia? I don't think so. They are the same for me. I liked ericsson some time ago for their policy, but things are different now (sony-ericsson). I also believe that the future will come from the japanese market, by companies like panasonic, toshiba... But I am not going to say that their products are better or that they are going to be better by the rest! And I BUY WHAT I FIND TO BE THE BEST CHOICE NOW, NOT LATER. If you have some experience with the computer industry you may remember the matrox g200 graphics card. It was superior than the rest (tnt,voodoo banshee), but the drivers it had was shit bad. Their customers had to wait for more than a year for the drivers to get mature. But by then geforce was out, and tnt2/voodoo3 was too cheap to buy (not to mention too faster). The same goes for the spv. Why should I buy that when i know that is full of bugs and that by the time it will become mature, far superior and stable products will be out, while the older products will be faster and more stable but most importantly cheaper...

[erhum]

I, like many people here, couldn't give a toss whether you or anyone else here is Polish (Russian/German/Finnish/English/Kiwi/US/... substitute whatever nationality you like). I said I had no axe to grind.

And no, I wasn't actually disagreeing with some of the underlying assumptions in your arguments. For instance, right now I would agree that .NET CF and .NET provide a superior programming model for distributed components. Will that picture remain the same over time ... not entirely sure. There are a number of middleware players that developing functionality for the Series 60 environment.

And saying that all PPC apps will instantly translate to Smartphone is bullshit. Some of them will deliver value, others will appear irrelevant. Many of the apps that are floating around today could be irrelevant (in their current form) as new, distributed concepts emerge (e.g. what need will you have for a static smartphone-based train timetable when a modern app in your device can refresh its data should the schedules have changed - but you would only want it to refresh its data if the shcedules have changed).

On the issue of Operators - I dont work for one, but talk to several regularly. What they want is increased ARPU through usage. The best way they can achieve that is by delivering useful and valuable services to the user. Saying that they love the SPV because it uses more data to keep itself up to date ... is only relevant if the user, in the end, perceives that 'up-to-date' status as valuable.

I do believe that for S60 to achieve the goals they have set for themselves, more work is necessary - esp in the area of middleware and frameworks.

Final point - lets cut the personal attacks, and stick to the valid points about the devices and technologies.

[Dazler]

yes, it is so! and please note that .NET technology is superior to Java in many respects, for example because it offers the same programming model (for all platforms: mobile, desktop and server) while Java offers totally different programming models for various platforms (wirelss Java -MIDP, desktop - Swing, sever - JSP/EJB).

Lol have been developing in both of them and there both equally good/bad.

Java is the way of the future if you want cross platform.

Java is 1 language -> all platforms

.Net
is all lanuguages -> 1 platform (more to come ... (maybe :p ))

.Net makes it easier if you need something on the windows platform.
But since .Net is based on com+ all those things can be done without it.

Java sucks because it's slow and huge (.Net 2 actually)

None of them belong on Mobile phones ...

Although I have to admit that midp would have been cool but since all the developers seem to use some strange not on other device useable classes the initial purpose of midp is lost.

[MemphisX]

Well i don't find anything that suits me on the visual studio .Net . After all i can do my job on ver 6. But for the high end developers, yeah it is really worth the upgrade (not only in the software but also in the hardware, considering the requirements )

[Ewan]

Originally Posted by thejpzr

not exactly: that what counts for operators most are those customers who generate the most GPRS (or data in general) traffic...

and guys from Orange told me that SPV generates much more GPRS traffic than symbian phones.... 8)

Would this have anythign to do with the fact that Data GPRS on the SPV is free if you are on Orange, and chargable for ANY OTHER DEVICE???

So the non SPV phones actually make more money for Orange than the SPV. Oops, strike out another "arguement" ;-)

[thejpzr]

Originally Posted by erhum

And no, I wasn't actually disagreeing with some of the underlying assumptions in your arguments. For instance, right now I would agree that .NET CF and .NET provide a superior programming model for distributed components.

model that Symbian phones will NEVER have because there will never be .NET for Symbian phones! So if you would like to enjoy the latest soft technologies you need to turn your attention to MS powered phones.

Originally Posted by erhum

And saying that all PPC apps will instantly translate to Smartphone is bullshit.

if only 10% of Pocket PC apps would be translated to MS Smartphone then MS Smartphone would have at least 100 times more apps than Symbian Series 60.

Originally Posted by erhum

Some of them will deliver value, others will appear irrelevant. Many of the apps that are floating around today could be irrelevant (in their current form) as new, distributed concepts emerge

distributed apps are not the solution for everybody, particularly now when MS powered phones can use SD cards of size up to 1 GB (poor Nokia crap uses MMC cards of size up to 128 MB only).

Originally Posted by erhum

itself up to date ... is only relevant if the user, in the end, perceives that 'up-to-date' status as valuable.

'up-to-date' is not everything, user interaction could become more important and .NET technololgy provides means to make apps with user interaction VERY EASILY. much easier than for Symbian.

Originally Posted by erhum

I do believe that for S60 to achieve the goals they have set for themselves, more work is necessary - esp in the area of middleware and frameworks.

too many companies with conflicting interests are involved in Symbian to get it through! in Microsoft business model is clear: soft - MS, hardware - no name vendors in Asia, operators: branding and services.

Originally Posted by erhum

Final point - lets cut the personal attacks, and stick to the valid points about the devices and technologies.

OK, but please note that this forum is frequented also by Finnish boors and in their case everything what is not praising them is personal attack.

[thejpzr]

Originally Posted by Ewan-FreEPOC

Would this have anythign to do with the fact that Data GPRS on the SPV is free if you are on Orange, and chargable for ANY OTHER DEVICE???

So the non SPV phones actually make more money for Orange than the SPV. Oops, strike out another "arguement" ;-)

good one, but you can't prove that it is the main reason.

[MaleBuffy]

if only 10% of Pocket PC apps would be translated to MS Smartphone then MS Smartphone would have at least 100 times more apps than Symbian Series 60.

If my grandma had wheels ,she would be a skateboard!

too many companies with conflicting interests are involved in Symbian to get it through! in Microsoft business model is clear: soft - MS, hardware - no name vendors in Asia, operators: branding and services.

Is that the reason why there are several Symbian powered mobile phones, and just one Smartphone 2002 powered one?

[thejpzr]

Originally Posted by MaleBuffy

Is that the reason why there are several Symbian powered mobile phones, and just one Smartphone 2002 powered one?

not truth in Asia (Phillipines) another one is on sale and many more coming soon - big wave around this summer.

and Pocket PC phones (roughly comparable to Nokia communicators although better because with GPRS) are many on several markets.

so you may be talking about Series 60 - 2 models - 3650 and 7650 - both with MONO sound.

anyway: the reason for small number of MS Smartphones now? LATE market entrance by MS. Please note: MS lately entered several markets, for example internet browsers, but it now has over 90% in it. LATE entry is the reason, but it will not prevent MS from success.

but don't worry, this eastern european Nokia company will be kicked strongly soon - lately they fired 1800 people, more coming soon, yet in this year...