All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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Old 28-10-2008, 08:00 PM
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7 days with an N85.

So the very nice girls and guys over at womworld kindly posted off their N85 for me to have a play with. It arrived today. I thought I'd post some comments, notes, observations and 'living withs' in the forum here (not specs and all the stuff you already probably know) and leave it open to anyone with specific questions or comments about the device whilst I have one in my hands. I'll keep the thread as neat as possible.

So, Monday:
The phone arrived and the first thing I thought was 'that box is slim'. The N95 (my current phone) box is still in the bottom draw in the office and this new box is much slimmer. I hoped that was to be the same of the contents...


And it was. The N85 sat there in its piano black sleekness (with copper back), but it was actually bigger than I thought it was going to be. At least bigger in length. It's marginally longer than the N95 when closed, with a visually longer and visually narrower screen. Its thin though and in the pocket test it was easy to tell which was which. I was kind of
expecting it to be smaller though? Its heavier too, but that does give it a good solid feel (when its closed, but I'll come back to that).

Starting the phone the battery was half full, so I thought lets go with the USB charging!! I hooked it up to the laptop and ..... well, nothing. It asked whether I wanted PCSuite, data transfer etc etc but the battery level indicator just stayed put. Hmmm? I pulled it back out and got a message that was gone too quick to read (though probably something to do with disconnecting properly) and then plugged it back in. This time I felt a distinctive 'click' into position and it started charging. Clearly you got to make sure it gets right in there as it will connect to your PC even if its not fully inserted. The USB charging option is great though, finally. Although I seem to have Nokia chargers EVERYWHERE, there's still the hassle of pulling them out of cable boxes, climbing around under desks, tables etc etc where as now I can just stick the mini usb in and we're off.

The slide on the N85 has been a talking point already and this one is the same. When closed its fine, but you slide it open and any press of the keys give the slider downward movement and an audible 'tap' sound before the dull click of the button itself. I don't know why this is the case with these phones, but there's no play like that in the previous Nokia sliders I've had. Staying on the slider, because its is a totally smooth fronted phone there is no ridge to stick your thumb into to slide it open. This results in one thing with single handed opening:


FINGERPRINTS


The quickest way finds that when you pick the phone up, it lands your thumb directly in the centre of the screen. I hate fingerprints, although with a phone that's smooth of course its going to happen!! Just something you will have to get used to if you have 'fingerprint issues'. I've found it 'difficult' to single handedly open the slider for the multimedia keys as my thumb just slides over the screen unless I press down hard, although this issue is negated by the fact that if your going to need those keys, you're normally turning the phone to landscape position and can have two hands on the phone. The slider motion itself feels really good. It snaps into its position well and without too much sound and no wobble back.

So what's different to look at inside? Well first off its much of the same, but it displays in a 'prettier' style. Under personalisation, the first thing was to pick a theme which ended up being Haze, a smooth teal looking theme. And then, of course, you have to have the theme effects on. This give you a transition between screens, much like say... vista for example. You also have a choice now in the layout of the menu items over just list and grid, The new options include horseshoe and v-shaped though I'm struggling to make these of any greater use over the classic grid/list. It just takes to long to get to what you want... its all about looks here rather than purpose I think.

Horseshoe menu layout


V-Shaped menu layout

There is a nice stand by option which I like, as it all about the position of the icon bar on the stand by screen. Finally I don't have to have the bar going across the top but can have it down the side (vertical bar) or not at all (basic). Its all about choices!

In the general settings, with this phone having the Navi wheel, there's some configuration for it. i.e. On or Off. I turned it on but could I get it to work? NOPE! After much messing around I just left it and moved to the breathing setting. Breathing?? Really? Is that what they are calling it!? Basically with breathing set to ON, the light around the Navi wheel pulses periodically when in standby. It looks nice, with a 'breathing' white light, though if you sleep in total darkness I can see it getting annoying. (you can turn it off though)
There is also a sensor setting option in general, which allows you to turn the auto rotate ON/OFF. If you have the theme effects on when you rotate the screen it doesn't just snap from horizontal to vertical, but transitions. Again, looks pretty. There seems to be a lot of that in this handset. Its pretty.
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  #2  
Old 28-10-2008, 08:16 PM
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Tuesday:
Still going from the USB charge yesterday its been on all night and starts the day with still a full set of bars as the alarm tones off. There seems to be a lot of mention about having the FM radio come on as the alarm tone but I couldn't see anything... I wonder if its in need of the headset in before you can pick it? Anyway, the 1200 battery seems to be making a bit of a difference. The screen itself in OLED style looks great. Its good on the power saving too and I like it. Its sharp colours and sharp whiteness of the clock in standby looks excellent. And finally, in standby you can see the clock... its not in black text!! Genius!

It got a couple of visual tests today. First off in the meeting today the phones were on the desk. A couple of blackberry curves, blackberry 8800 and sharp wimo, an N95, a palm treo(?), an N95-8GB and the N85. The N85 looked the business on the table. Won hands down. Very smooth. Looked sleek and interesting over the others, and managed to hold itself well in a business setting. Later on in the evening its come up against the pub table, with the usual blackberry competition, N95, E61 and some freaky small but cool phone from Japan. Again, it looked good.

One thing that seems to have been levelled at the phone by friends and colleagues is that the phone is a bit girlie looking? I don't agree with them in the naming, but understand what they are trying to say, as its a phone (as I have said) that's being pretty, hence the girlie comment. Perhaps in a load of suits flaunting their blackberrys around it wouldn't cut the mustard for them. But in its position in the market I think its looks excellent. It small form and smooth dark face stand it well.

I started the day off having spent Monday missing the key presses I wanted. Having no ridge on the buttons on the slider was making the adjustment from the N95 a bit awkward. Plenty of double presses on separate keys, closing things I didn't want to close and launching things I didn't want to launch. Tuesday proved more successful though and my thumb having adjusted to where the menu and left/right soft keys were but I still find the green/red keys placed right on the very edge of the frame a little.... difficult. And that brings me back to the Navi wheel.

Rubbish.


I really couldn't/can't get it working to any use, and it seems the reason for that was that I was perhaps pressing too hard. I have to touch it sooooooo gently to get it to work it is wholly pointless! It's got some serious competition of course with the ipod scroll method... but its not even close. I can safely say I hate it. No problem tho... turn that setting off too.

I am liking a different new addition though. The keylock flick switch on the side which locks/unlocks the key pad is good. I've normally slid the slider back and forth to unlock but now I have a dedicated switch that allows me to use the phone without having to slide it.

I have set up a couple of mail boxes and the email comes in very quick with no issues which I was pleased to see. I often have a stalling period on the 95, but its as expected here. The first set up gave me the option of MfE or a normal mail setting. Since adding in my regular email I seem to have lost the MfE option, which I do actually need. Where is it?? Best have a look for that in a bit.

I tried the FM transmitter today too in my car. I was pretty pleased to see that the phone had this function... excellent thinking big N. I tuned my car stereo into the correct frequency and played a tune. All I got through the stereo though was an intermittent tone. No music. The problem I have is that my car is equipped with BT for the phone itself. Once the phone is paired with the car it means that no other connection to the phone is going to happen. So if I want to stream the music to the car, I'd need to turn the BT off. Clearly that's not going to happen what with being on your phone whilst driving. So I don't think I'm really ever going to get any use out of the FM transmitter option. Shame because I think it's a grand idea. Its very very easy to set working:


Tomorrow, I have a full day at an expo at the NEC so I'll get a good bit of 3G/Wifi action, so although I still have 3 bars at this point, its going to get another charge tonight.

A couple of final things, the photos in dark light still suck and the button to the right of the Navi wheel...I'm not really getting yet.
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  #3  
Old 28-10-2008, 08:17 PM
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Wednesday:

So today, I had a day down at the NEC at a construction expo. I took the phone off charge from an overnight plug charge at about 0800hrs. I have MfE running at peak times every 30 mins. (Peak being 0900 - 1930) and not at all off peak. It's now 2230hrs and this is the first time I've heard the low battery tone. (its different! ) It's had a bit of use and I think in all honesty my N95 would be dead by now, but this isn't that much further behind, so you would still be in the situation where you need to charge daily!

Whilst wondering through the exhibition halls, there was an ideal photo op to send back to the lads in the office, so I pulled out the N85 to get a quick snap shot to mail them.



Now this was a pretty good photo op, but I wanted to get it as quickly as possible before I missed it. It took an age to start the camera and then I couldn't get it to focus. So about seven or eight seconds, and before the model moved off whatever it was she was sitting on, I had to force the shot. Hence the above image. If I'm using a phone camera, its often because I want to quickly capture an image. I've tried it a few times now and failed (though clearly there are plenty of other times I have taken a very decent picture). I find the pressure you need to put on the button sometimes results in me getting the red or green lines, other times I see the lens try to focus, but not actually get that far. It's also about 5 seconds from sliding the lens slider down before you get an image you can then try to focus on. :(

Anyway on the way home, the M1 was shut, so I got my colleague to get into Nokia Maps. Now I've never been a fan of Nokia Maps in all honesty, but it's all I had today to try and find a route home (so clearly a benefit right there). There were plenty of times that it didn't pin us in the correct position, and this is with the phone in the open position at all times. Coming back through Derby on the A52, so a major road, it left me a good chunk off (though heading in the correct direction).

Another problem, well hardly a problem, but something that isn't supposed to happen appeared when the phone is idle. The menu/clear and soft key lights have remained lit. Also, if I slid it for the multimedia keys, the play/stop lights didn't light up. It's happened a couple of times, but has corrected itself after a restart back to just the time showing.

So, with the maps probably running for about 1.5 hrs and with MfE and the rest of the day use, i.e. no phone calls and only a couple of photos, the battery is done. I don't have an issue with charging the battery each night but clearly if your on the road somewhere your are going to need a charge point. I could of course just plug it in whilst I'm typing this.

I've also found a liking for the button to the right of the Navi wheel, despite its ugliness on this otherwise smooth face. Previously, to view my recent photos I had to double click the play button on the side of the N95. That launched the preview of my last photo taken. The new button on the front now does that but so much more. I now get a rolling set of 'tiles' for Photos, Maps, Internet, Maps, Games, TV & Video, Music and Contacts with a variety of relevant options on each. I think that easy access button will be use full once you arrange the tiles as you want them.
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Old 28-10-2008, 08:17 PM
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Thursday:

Last night found me in the pitch black looking to send an email. I noticed in the dark that there was a distinct difference from the amount of light leaking. On the N85 there is none. Well at least not out the sides. There is a bit of 'fluffy light' from the Navi wheel but thats all. Very tight.

I have had 2 major gripes today though. Not a good day in all. Firstly, I lost all visuals for my videos. It said it would be playing but there was no image and no sound. Annoying, as I had to restart the phone to get anything. Much MUCH more annoying though was the keypad. Was..... ? I mean IS.

In a call with DTMF needs such as telephone banking, when I wanted to enter some digits I found the keypad needed 2 presses to get the first key. So that resulted in a lot of 'not enough numbers' or 'not recognised' comments from the voice at the other side. Things seem to be very slow. The menus are slow although turning off the theme effects helps a bit here, going into a folder is slow... I want things to be a bit more snappy! This slowness is probably why I needed two presses to get the first key accepted. i.e. the first press made the phone think 'oh here we go... he's pressing a button' and the second press got me to 'there it is, show it on my screen'. I don't want to have to pause whilst the phone gets ready for my key presses!! I found this happening with the menu button a couple of times today too...

I had a play with the FM transmitter too. It piped the tunes from the N85 to the stereo no problems. The volume needs to be adjusted through whatever system you are playing the music too. I found that I could move about 5 meters away from the player before the signal went. I also found that the stereo received the signal best when I held or put the phone on its side with the speakers facing the floor. I still need to try it in the car with my BT off though. One thing I wanted to do was to see if I could stream Internet radio over the FM trans. I couldn't although that doesn't mean you can't. I just can't get the Internet radio to work at the moment. Despite it finding my network, and all other services over wifi working, I just get 'connection timed out, try again' Not sure on that one right now, will see if theres an updated version to the on on the handset?
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Old 28-10-2008, 08:17 PM
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Friday:

I'm happy now that I'm definitely not the only person that cant work the Navi Wheel. It's been around the office, and girls can't do it either. So its not a dainty finger thing. *phew*

The interface to PC Suite works nicely though. I get a call in and its comes on my screen who is calling etc. The SMS interface works well too for send receive although if I read a message on the laptop, I still displays as a new message waiting on the phone screen...

I have noticed, that the vibrate on the phone is FIERCE though!!! And also, the sound from the phone is much clearer. Clearly the speaker placement works a treat. The only time it doesn't though, is when you are still holding it in your hand. Then the sounds are muffled somewhat.... but hey, just move it.

The FM transmitter only works in my car (an Audi) if you don't have your bluetooth connection on as mentioned earlier. Otherwise, the BT connection takes over all sound from the phone which is normally fine. Its displays Nokia on the stereo, as it does on any any other stereo you are play music too. One problem I have though, is that the N810 contacts manager doesn't work for this phone, so I can't push my contacts across to the car. So... not names.

I've installed Y-browser, and Fring and skyequikey, and a few widgets no problems. I'm out of luck at the moment for easily finding any other apps. AllAboutSymbian software section doesn't list the N85 or 3.2 FP2 phones, and nor does Nokias own MOSH. I don't know!

Last thing tonight... for example if you are in contacts. and you press the soft options key, at the top of the pop up you have 'show open apps'. This is the same as holding down the menu key. It actually makes getting to 'exit' or the last option (by going up the menu to get to the end instead of down the menu) a longer process. (like 2 clicks). Seems a bit pointless.

Sorry, that wasn't the last thing. This is. I miss the 'edit key'. I can't multi select pictures for names or whatever. :(
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Old 28-10-2008, 08:17 PM
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The Weekend!


Well, That's the week over and the weekend is here! Plenty of opportunity to play with the phone!! Except, I'm not really that in to it :( There's nothing NEWand EXCITING. The shape is nice, the weight of the phone good, but the menu is slow and it's much the same as my N95. Perhaps if the Navi Wheel worked perfectly, it would make the user interfacing more interesting, but it doesn't... so its turned off. One thing I do like, is the FM Transmitter. In fact, I can safely say that is the only thing I'm going to miss when this phone returns to Nokia. I've been able to stream my fav. Internet radio through the stereo just through FM... easy! The FM selection menu is quick and easy too, just choose the frequency you want to transmit on and off you go:



I had another look at the camera, and again had similar issues to before. I'm sure that if you are taking the shot on an inanimate object, you can pose yourself correctly and steadily take the shot. Kids, animals, automotive etc... forget it. I seem to have normally ended up with shots like this... (quality not content) :





The final straw came when I got this old favourite:


The only apps running were the camera, the menu and standby.

Its not all bad. The gallery looks better. Well, I say looks better, it looks the same it just navigates better. You can view a picture in full screen and click to rotate. If you hold the rotate button down though, the image minimises and the carousel of shots comes into view until you pause when it nicely transitions your chose shot back into full view.

Of all the screens when navigating though the options, this is the slowest. Its painful:


Just to prove I can take a none blurry photo:?



Final thoughts to the weekend: I also experienced the OLED in the SUNLIGHT Its pretty hard to read anything in brighter light actually. Its not impossible, you just have to focus more on getting the right angle. I'm sure this is something you would quickly become used to. The screen on the whole is very nice.


A late edition comment though is the 'listen' option for all your messages. Is this put in because of driving hands free or something... I mean, having an SMS or email read out to you in a non reflective computer voice just sucks quite frankly... I dont get the point. Does anyone else??
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Old 28-10-2008, 08:17 PM
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Summary:

I think this phone will be good. It isn't at the moment, but after a f/w update or two, I can only hope they smooth/speed up the operation and its becomes more of a joy to use. It is a very nice looking phone as I've said, but there are no new major developments or anything to stand out when other handset manufacturers are innovating more. Its more of the same mostly though, if you are an N-series owner but with the N95 being two years old now, not a lot has changed. Perhaps Nokia are working on not changing a winning formula. (winning in that the N-series has a mass appeal). Perhaps they did the innovating first and have sat back a bit, whilst those of the likes of RIM seem to be innovating as they are changing an old formula?

I like the OLED screen as its very clear and sharp but it isn't that clear in brighter light. I like the visuals on the phone, but they are possibly one of the reasons the menu runs slower, I like the gallery and camera interface but I can't get a decent shot without being totally totally still for 5 seconds. Which brings me to the conclusion that this is a phone of compromises. In the natural order of upgrading your phone, then yes.. this should be one you have a look at. I wouldn't rush to go get one myself as I think I can safely say I won't be sorry to see it go.

There are two things I do like though, no compromises. The FM Transmitter and the key lock switch. I hope that Nokia roll these out to as many handsets as they can/that need it. Its hardly ground breaking in the new choices but its a solid enough phone for anyone in a position to want a tidy sized upgrade.


So, I have this phone for a few more days... and I'll add anything else I think is worth mentioning in its day to day use. If you have any comments on anything I have said too... then let me know.

The womworld comment link is here
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Old 28-10-2008, 09:13 PM
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Nice stuff kontraband - let me know if you need somewhere to put images and the like.

Not quite sure I understood this bit thoguh 'slider downward movement and an audible 'tap' sound before the dull click of the button itself', but then its been a while since I saw this phone.

Thanks for posting this.
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Old 28-10-2008, 11:34 PM
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Thanks! uch appreciated.

Cheers, Kontraband. Been waiting for something like this to appear. Trying to justify the "early adopter" fees of 515. But I feel that I won't be able to hold off for very long.
Though,I do have a question that maybe you can verify over the course of the week:
Could you please try the FM Transmitter again without the bluetooth connection? I like listening to podcasts while driving and this is(one of)my killer features.
Again, thanks for the detailed report on usage. Looking forward to more!
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Old 29-10-2008, 08:32 AM
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I can echo the slider movement when its up. Worst of it is, it 'rattles' when on the phone. Seems its just the right movement for the slider to move about, which is very annoying.

Hopefully when I get my next one (current one is going back due to a GPS fault - cant get a lock), it will not have this slider problem.

Oh, and the FM transmitter works very well, except for when there is a strong signal on the same frequency - it usually battles the phone. So find a pretty much unsed frequency, or you might be driving along and suddenly have a fight between classic FM and you're favourite song.

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Old 29-10-2008, 10:03 AM
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I'm hoping the pre-ordered N85 turns up here shortly so I can add some more comments. FM transmitter has been one of my favourite features in the N78. Really pleased to see it in the N85 and N79.
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Old 29-10-2008, 10:16 AM
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Im wondering if its going to become standard for S60 Nokias (like GPS), or remain an N series feature. My bet is on the latter.

I also have to echo the naviwheel problems - its so ineffective I just turned it off.

Apperently, it works different for for different people. Something to do with your fingertips? Will be interesting to see how you get on with it Rafe.

Out of interest, where did you pre-order it from? If its Nokia, they had some in stock yesterday.

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Old 29-10-2008, 11:57 PM
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Rafe, no problems. The slider comment is similar to what bart has said, though theres some differences for me. When it's open there isn't any issue with the slider making a noise or wobbling during a call, but if the phone is held in one hand, and you put your thumb on the bottom of the slider, that's when it wobbles. So it's weighted unevenly towards the bottom of the slider which is why theres no wobble when the phone is pressed against the ear.

Obskure, I will play with the FM transmitter again for sure. I'll try it in a couple of link ups to various stereos. €515 is possibly to much for me right now, a heavy price to pay to be an early adopter of this phone. I'll reassess that later though. Are you driving a car that has a bluetooth connection in it?

Bart, I'd go with you on the latter too, though hope we're wrong. I'm looking forward to seeing what Rafe has to say about the Navi wheel too.
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Old 30-10-2008, 03:24 PM
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How does the N85 feel when the slider is out and you're holding it between your shoulder and your ear?

My old N80 didn't sit properly, like it was going to fall out from between. At the very least, it was very hard to hear and hold there.

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Old 30-10-2008, 07:54 PM
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jwaisanen,

For me... Very solid. Very solid indeed.
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