The Nokia 5800 and what it means for N-Gage

[Tzer2]

Nokia today announced the 5800 XpressMusic, the first touchscreen phone based on the S60 platform (which is the platform used by N-Gage-compatible phones). Although it's obviously being compared to Apple's phones, the 5800 costs about half the iPhone's price, and is consequently aimed at a more mainstream mass audience. The 5800 is also the first phone to use the latest S60 5th Edition platform. But what does all this mean for the N-Gage platform?

Read on in the full article.

[Tzer2]

First of all, sorry about the layout snags but I can't get the page to behave unless I remove the pictures and I thought you'd want to see the pictures.

Secondly, the 5800 is the much-rumoured "tube" phone, but it's not really meant to be an "iPhone killer". They're going to be compared, but if one device costs half the price of the other they're clearly not intended for the same audience.

Nokia will be bringing out an "iPhone killer", but it will probably be much closer to the same price as the iPhone and probably use the Nseries brand.

PocketGamer.co.uk confirms that N-Gage is indeed coming to the 5800 - I have no clue how they want to manage that, but apparently it is happening. The only control mechanism I can think of is a Zeemote, but that's kinda awkward imho...

http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/reader_...=55663&et=news

Sorry, wrong link:

http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Vario...ews.asp?c=9278

[Tzer2]

Chlettn, thanks for the link.

It does make perfect sense, there's enough screen resolution to do it and the controls could be replicated with on-screen ones and/or perhaps the accelerometer. The proximity sensor might even come into play?

The platform is also very similar to S60 3rd Edition which is what N-Gage games are written for at the moment, so existing N-Gage developers wouldn't have too much trouble writing for the 5800.

Going back to controls, most N-Gage games just use the d-pad and one or two gaming buttons, some just use the d-pad, so there aren't that many controls which need to be replicated or replaced.

One thing's for sure though, N-Gage will definitely be coming to S60 5th Edition whether it's on the 5800 or another model. It's just a question of how long Nokia take to do it (and they do take their time sometimes... ;-) ).

[Tzer2]

And, actually, there's a really good reason to think games would take to the 5800 like a duck to water: the Nintendo DS.

The DS has loads of really good titles that don't need the buttons at all, including stuff like Animal Crossing that were originally written for button-based controls.

Nokia could just follow Nintendo's lead in how to successfully convert button-based games into touchscreen-based ones, then N-Gage should do really well on devices like the 5800.

sincerity?
ill be sad if n-gage goes s60 5th edition... i buyed an N95 8gb yesterday, and its so awesome! im still waiting for titles with opengl support... and i dont think s60 5th edition n-gage titles will be compatible with s60 3rd edition phones... i know this is an evolution, but i worked so hard to get this mobile, then it will get obsolete so soon... thats sad! i know that i could have waited more for his truly sucessor (not n96, its a crappy phone)
im getting really sad... =´[
please nokia, dont throw away n95 8gb support so soon!!!

[Tzer2]

Unregistered, don't worry! :-)

First of all, nothing is obsolete, no one is going to abandon S60 3rd Edition support any time soon, especially as there are so many S60 3rd Edition devices still to be released (the N85 and N79 for example).

S60 3rd Edition has been the top-selling smartphone platform for almost three years now, that size of userbase is not going to be ignored.

Going by previous experiences, it will probably be several years before support for S60 3rd Edition would cease.

Secondly, if they do release N-Gage games for S60 5th Edition they will probably also release them for S60 3rd Edition. The two platforms are technically similar so it should be fairly easy to write for both (though of course the control methods would need tweaking to suit the phone's buttons or touchscreen).

[sandy_1988]

Surprisingly, Forum Nokia's 5800 page states that the Operating System is Symbian 9.4.
Regarding application compatibility, generally, backward compatibility doesn't changes in a minor upgrade of the OS (like from OS9.3 to OS9.4/5). And I don't think change in the UI does have any effect on application compatibility.

[ccraig]

i can't wait for with such a cheap price tag nobody can complain really your getting a lot more for your money than what iphone offers.
earlier i watched video with games being played and it looked very very good
also i read that n-gage compatibility is being worked on but wont be ready for launch
i will get one for sure.

btw n-gage app updates have been released for all phones heres change log http://forums.arena.n-gage.com/nokia...&thread.id=198
if you have an n81/n81 8GB you have to get the update version corresponding with the firmware you a running b/c there is two different updates ,you'll find more info on the various phone pages at http://www.n-gage.com/ngi/ngage/web/.../download.html
since updating my app the cant update profile error no longer pops up ,also showroom loading time is faster .


EDIT: Ikona as now posted about updates on blog ,you should beable to use check for updates feature in app soon to update app that way,if it says no update get it from the site via PC etc

I wonder how are they going to make it n-gage compatible when there's no keypad or naviwheel and the touchscreen is obviously single-touch (opposed to iPhone's double-touch). They could of course make virtual keys on the screen for games with a virtual dpad (like with Real football 2009 for iPhone) but that's where the setback - the screen is only single-touch - that means you can't press a direction on the virtual dpad together with A or B at the same time.

So the only way I see it is making a special exclusive S60v5 library of N-Gage games for the phone that will deal with this disadvantage.

Also about the OS - is it Symbian 9.4 or 9.5 after all? Nokia's website says it's 9.4.

[argh]

I don't think there's any reasonable way that you will end up with the same selection of games on both the touch and button-based phones, which will fragment the platform - they're just not suited to the same game types.

Still, I suppose 3D acceleration and accelerometer usage could do just the same thing. I don't actually see 3D acceleration catching on with n-gage, unless they release more devices with an accelerator included (although it looks like The One and Crash Nitro Kart are waiting for the SDK with this...)

Any idea if this device has one?

Edit:

Oh, and I think the n-gage SDK should add analogue support, similar to PC games. Each device can supply a number of "axes", which the player can assign to analogue controls if they want (with digital button fallback controls).

e.g. an accelerometer has 3 axes (well, at least 2 potentially useful ones for gaming), a player using the Zeemote has 2 axes for the analogue joystick, the naviwheel is 1 axis. A touchscreen could also be used as a 2 axis analogue controller in this case.

[Tzer2]

Argh, the 5800 does have an accelerometer (it's needed for changing screen orientation just like on the iPhone) so that can work as a gaming control.

In fact the 5800's accelerometer DOES work as a gaming control, the built-in version of Global Racer uses it for steering.

...I wonder how are they going to make it n-gage compatible when there's no keypad or naviwheel and the touchscreen is obviously single-touch

If you use the accelerometer to steer characters, the touchscreen itself could be used for buttons, which would allow pretty much all of the control mechanisms on current N-Gage games. The accelerometer and touchscreen work independently so they can be used simultaneously.

There are also these "proximity sensors" which may or may not be useful in games, hopefully we'll find out more about them as 5800s become available.

I don't think there's any reasonable way that you will end up with the same selection of games on both the touch and button-based phones, which will fragment the platform - they're just not suited to the same game types.

Have you tried playing the Nintendo DS?

That has LOTS of ports of games from button-based systems (especially the Nintendo 64) which have been adapted to work entirely from a non-multi touchscreen. Animal Crossing is perhaps the best example because it includes both touch-only and button-only modes, and they're both just as easy to use.

As a matter of fact the original N-Gage's first Asphalt game was also released on the DS.

This really shouldn't be a problem at all, especially when you consider how simple the controls are on most N-Gage games.

[argh]

Originally Posted by Tzer2

Argh, the 5800 does have an accelerometer (it's needed for changing screen orientation just like on the iPhone) so that can work as a gaming control.

In fact the 5800's accelerometer DOES work as a gaming control, the built-in version of Global Racer uses it for steering.

Yes, I saw it had an accelerometer - I was asking about accelerator in the first section of my post (probably should have been more clear - 3D graphics hardware). Global Racer isn't an n-gage title, is it? I was explaining how I would like to see it work in n-gage and one possibility for how all the different analogue hardware could be integrated in to n-gage in a consistent way. It would be great if this game out with the new SDK, allowing for Nitro Kart to take advantage of the steering too.

Originally Posted by Tzer2

Have you tried playing the Nintendo DS?

That has LOTS of ports of games from button-based systems (especially the Nintendo 64) which have been adapted to work entirely from a non-multi touchscreen. Animal Crossing is perhaps the best example because it includes both touch-only and button-only modes, and they're both just as easy to use.

As a matter of fact the original N-Gage's first Asphalt game was also released on the DS.

This really shouldn't be a problem at all, especially when you consider how simple the controls are on most N-Gage games.

I'm not saying there won't be any games for it, I'm saying that it makes it harder for developers again - some platforms with touchscreen, some without. The existing games will probably need to be retrofitted to support touchscreen, or just left without touchscreen support, in which case it will be an n-gage device that can't play all n-gage games. That's what I meant by fragmented.

Wat i want to know mainly is will or will not 5800 have ngage coz it will be really fun to play dose gamds on d 3.2 inch screen. And if it will have ngage i wanted to know how titles like fifa09 will work cos i dont think i would want to use the accelerometer to move d players. Also does it have d hardware to run all ngage titles