Orange unimpressed with N-series

[Slartibartfast]

After yesterday's rumours of the N80 being dropped/recalled I also contacted a customer support agent and spoke to them for half an hour or so. They confirmed that the N80 was being dropped due to a lack of stability in the software, the same reason the N91 was dropped without even making it to market.

Interestingly the Sony Ericsson P990i is still under review - as it has been for months. It is still not deemed stable enough for release.

I'm very fond of my N80 - but it must be said that (like the E70) the firmware that it originally shipped with was ridiculously flawed. That either Orange or, more importantly NOKIA, should think the thing was ready for public use is beyond belief.

So - working back up the tree - we have Symbian: a company that appears to have struggled to provide a stable operating system to its two biggest clients. I've interviewed engineers from Symbian and all I hear is that they are under-resourced and have spent more than the last year struggling to stabilise the OS on these new devices.

I would be very interested in someone from this site (Rafe, Steve) actually getting hold of someone from Symbian and asking them to explain what's happened, what went wrong (they cannot deny that things have gone wrong - unless they really want to insult our intelligence) and what they intend to to avoid handing this market to Microsoft. The rep I spoke with was sold on the M3100 - and he was pushing it very hard - either that, he suggested, or a none symbian SE camera/phone.

So when thinking of the launch of the new OS 9.1 devices the phrase "pig's ear" comes irresistably to mind. As this is the premier site for news and information on Symbian I think it's time this matter was addressed - we've all suffered - time for some explaining!

[roakes]

Just called Orange and they said it has been discontinued but not recalled.

I wouldn't mind an M3100 so any way I can force them to admit the N80 is a bit crap and get an exchange?

[southglade2000]

Same here, they said that there was nothing wrong with the phone, it was just being replaced by a different model.

So, I have a phone with flaky firmware that isn't going to be updated.

Did the guy at orange offer you the M3100 as you were due for an upgrade or was it as a replacement for the N80?

[Slartibartfast]

The 3100 was offered to me for GB50 - although I could have probably knocked that down by claiming I was going to move networks.

I've had a windows phone (an M500) and it was God awful. Even the reviews of the 3100 on the net include phrases like "I'm having to poke the thing in the bum [reset it] three times a day". Is that normal???? Since when did phones get this bad? At least with the N80 I know exactly how it's bad - and can work around it.

I really, really miss the old PSION days - rock solid PDAs that never, ever crashed. Or even the old Palm days - rock solid dumb-as-a-brick PDAs that were so simple they couldn't crash.

[Telumehtar]

I don't know -- maybe it's just about managing expectations. I got an N80 knowing exactly what I was letting myself in for. Here's a brand new phone with more technology crammed into it than any previous phone, a brand new OS and a brand new web browser. Of course there will be problems and it will be buggy, I thought, but it does more of what I want than any other device and I can put up with that and wait for the inevitable firmware upgrades.

Sure enough, version 4 is pretty much rock solid. I think it rebooted once on me while doing satnav.

But what happens in a lot of cases is this: people believe all the marketing; you can do this, you can do that; they expect it (quite rightly) to work perfectly, and when it doesn't they start making demands and asking for replacements and causing a whole load of trouble for the operators.

I don't know whether people need to learn that brand new technology has limitations, or whether marketers need to be more honest about it. I don't see either happening in a hurry.

Over the air upgrades will help so that people can have their firmware updated without even noticing.

Operators should be careful about dropping devices. The N80 was the first device I was prepared to switch operators for.

[southglade2000]

I agree totally, I was quite happy to wait for the firmware bugs to be ironed out.

But now orange have dropped the phone they won't upgrade their firmware and if I take the phone to my nokia centre they'll only put the latest orange firmware on, which is the one I have.

[Slartibartfast]

I agree - I love my N80 - I'm writing this using it right now. However with on help from orange! I had to download updates etc. My concern is that we are very much the minority and so most people will have only experienced the early 3.14 software.

Couple that with the 990 launch and you have to wonder what went wrong.

slartibartfast

[TazUk]

Ah the pains of being an early adopter.

I believe the biggest issue with the last N series launch was the combination of new device + new operating system.

I had similar problems with my WM5 K-Jam that I bought a week or so after they came out - buggy, prone to restarts and no third party software was available. 6 months down the line I had a stable device that I was happy with, but only after a firmware upgrade and some intense research on a specialist forum. Hmmmm wait that sounds familiar

Of course by then I was bored with the poor build quality of the device and the overall size, so I sold it on eBay for a decent amount of cash and bought an N80 lol.

I'm looking forward to the next set of N-Series devices with a reasonable amount of confidence. The third party software situation is improving daily and the operating system is maturing nicely. Now if someone at Nokia will make the rumoured 10GB N81 happen I'm in like Flynn

[Cash]

Originally Posted by roakes

Just called Orange and they said it has been discontinued but not recalled.

I wouldn't mind an M3100 so any way I can force them to admit the N80 is a bit crap and get an exchange?

If orange have now stopped selling a current model phone because they say that the software is faulty, or too buggy or unsuitable then I think you have a very strong case to be able to return your phone, they have ultimately sold you, by their own admission by discontinuing a current phone because of software flaws, a product that is not fit or sutable for the job it was designed for.

The problem is getting orange to admit the real reason why they have discontiniued the phone, if you phone to orange about this I suggest recording the calls..I think there is an app that will allow you to do this.

If you want to pursue this I would suggest talking to trading standards or the office of fair trading, they are always happy to help..

[goona]

A good friend of mine says the same thing as he works for Vodafone, they are not selling for much longer in stores due to the same issues. But to me it actually displays the ignorance of the staff and support guys. They are not interested in getting you up to date software nor actually fixing any issues once they have sold you the phone contract. The same could happen with any phone you buy from them, they could pull the plug and leave you feeling a little annoyed once your signed up for 12/18 months.

I have had no real issues with my phone and i use it a lot with all types of software running on it, tomtom sat nav, nokia contacts software working along side the bluetooth nokia 610 car kit etc. Ive had this running on both v3 & v4 of the firmware and couldnt be more happy. If you are to ask me its the best phone I have ever owned you just have to look after it.

[Cash]

I cant see what all the fuss is about, I am more than happy with my N80..apart from battery life and camera, but I can live with that.

Maybe the problem is with the orange designed firmware.

[deadkenny]

That's what I wonder.

My sim-free N80 seems pretty good. Battery life is what I expected for a phone crammed with so many features and technology, and especially 3G and WiFi. The Internet browser is buggy but then you can just download Opera which is much better. It's pretty stable otherwise and that's on the pre-V4 firmware, though menus are a little slow. Has it's quirks but I still prefer it to non-Nokia models.


The other possibility is the support guys are just reflecting opinion based on calls they get moaning about it (which may be unrepresentitive) and the real reason Orange are discontinuing it is because of the new Internet Edition of the N80. Which as far as I can tell is little more than a firmware/software update anyway just repackaged.

If there really is something wrong with it maybe we can get the operator and/or (in my case) Nokia to replace it with the Internet Edition.

[Cash]

Originally Posted by deadkenny

That's what I wonder.

My sim-free N80 seems pretty good. Battery life is what I expected for a phone crammed with so many features and technology, and especially 3G and WiFi. The Internet browser is buggy but then you can just download Opera which is much better. It's pretty stable otherwise and that's on the pre-V4 firmware, though menus are a little slow. Has it's quirks but I still prefer it to non-Nokia models.


The other possibility is the support guys are just reflecting opinion based on calls they get moaning about it (which may be unrepresentitive) and the real reason Orange are discontinuing it is because of the new Internet Edition of the N80. Which as far as I can tell is little more than a firmware/software update anyway just repackaged.

If there really is something wrong with it maybe we can get the operator and/or (in my case) Nokia to replace it with the Internet Edition.

You will be lucky to get nokia to admit anything is wrong with their products...well I am sticking with mine untill the N95 comes out..I hope Nokia will learn a few lessons from the N80..ie..better battery, better flash for camera especially as the N95 is supposed to have a 5 mega pix camera, easier ota firmware upgrades and would be nice to get some sort of notifications from Nokia when there is a firmware upgrade, I think that as others have mentioned the problems are with the operator staff not knowing the phone, not selling the phone to the people who will use and understand the phone, and the support staff not being trained correctly with the right info and knowledge to sort out problems.

[fdxd]

Originally Posted by goona

A good friend of mine says the same thing as he works for Vodafone, they are not selling for much longer in stores due to the same issues. But to me it actually displays the ignorance of the staff and support guys. They are not interested in getting you up to date software nor actually fixing any issues once they have sold you the phone contract.

This is quite true. Most software issues are simply due to lack of user knowledge not faults. The Operators are aware of this. But their Customer Services arent. Over 80% of returned smarpthones are not faulty in any way(from the operators). Customer Services dont even know Nseries are smartphones run on an OS etc. Tell them the phone takes 30 seconds to startup they think its faulty, lol.

[Winfield]

@Cash
Unfortunately from the previews I've seen on the N95 the flash is exactly the same as on our N80. And the screen "downgrade" is certainly a no-no for me.
Regds