All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #16  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by brendand View Post
What @Unregistered said about the N8's GPU being a boon for power-efficiency is very true. The simple fact is that GPUs are designed specially to deal efficiently with ever so common operations involved in drawing to the screen. They do in one clock cycle what a CPU would do in many. Also, no-one cares to explain why the N8 would use more power than any previous Symbian device in the first place.
Also, it's worth noting in the discussion that the N8 battery is not easily removeable. The only on-the-go boost option will be external plug in battery packs.

  #17  
Old 02-09-2010, 11:08 PM
thehobnob thehobnob is offline
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As a (happy) Palm Pre Plus owner the Touchstone is an absolute neccessity for me. The battery life on the device is awful even if you don't use it at all due to the constant syncing with the cloud which cannot be (easily) switched off.

I think this is a large part of why phone battery life is so awful these days. Carriers market all these phones with data plans and facebook/twitter/etc built in. Users will utilize this functionality, thus ensuring the phone's cell radio is on full power for a fair amount of time each day (transferring data, photos etc) - this combined with the overhead of a multitasking OS (albeit a fairly small overhead in Symbian's case anyway) will mean the processor will be working at full pelt a lot of the time as well. None of it is good for battery.

I dread to think how bad the multicore ARM CPU battery life will be.

  #18  
Old 02-09-2010, 11:11 PM
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> The only on-the-go boost option will be external plug in battery packs.

Unless, of course, you have a small screwdriver with you of the correct size, and a spare standard Nokia 1200mAH battery, which is what many of us intend to have if we're serious about this issue. Of course someone in China no doubt will come out with a cheapo replacement end piece for the N8 that simply clips in and out rather than screws, which will be flogged for 99p + 1.99 postage on Ebay I expect ;-)
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  #19  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:16 AM
Will81 Will81 is offline
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It's all very well putting in (for example) a 4" high brightness screen and 1GHz processor
Urgh. I hate it when people think a 1 GHz CPU automatically means huge battery drain. These high-end SoCs are generally fabricated on more advanced, smaller processes (45nm on the latest Samsung Hummingbird or Qualcomm Snapdragon) which uses less power than their older 65nm or larger counterparts.

Newer and faster designs, such as the Cortex-A8, also have far more extensive power saving technologies (like clock gating), further reducing power consumption.

Finally, they don't always run at the max speed and power. Like modern laptop x86 CPUs, they only ramp up when needed.

In effect, these newer SoCs (that Nokia are seemingly ignoring on Symbian handsets) do MORE with less power.

And while we're talking about power, why doesn't Symbian have a push notification service? Apple was the first to introduce it but now Microsoft and RIM are adding it to their platforms as well.

Last edited by Will81; 03-09-2010 at 01:18 AM. Reason: Push notification

  #20  
Old 03-09-2010, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Will81 View Post

Newer and faster designs, such as the Cortex-A8, also have far more extensive power saving technologies (like clock gating), further reducing power consumption.

Finally, they don't always run at the max speed and power. Like modern laptop x86 CPUs, they only ramp up when needed.
This is true, but my experience of using these latest phones is that they are very good on battery drain as long as you don't use them to do anything. Very much like having a 5 litre V8 car that weighs 2 tons. They use very little fuel when they are parked up. The engines only ramp up when you want to go somewhere. On these phones there is almost visible battery drain when they are actively doing power hungry work such as google maps - which hammers GPS, 3G to constantly download new bitmap tiles, display and processing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Will81 View Post
And while we're talking about power, why doesn't Symbian have a push notification service? Apple was the first to introduce it but now Microsoft and RIM are adding it to their platforms as well.
If Symbian took an app that does a regular poll to its remote service in the background and said "this is a push service" then they would have one. All the push services are just simulated push, not real except the ones based on BES.

  #21  
Old 03-09-2010, 06:13 AM
smilem smilem is offline
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Hi Steve,
One topic that I and Im sure others would like to see an article written by you, on is how does the touch optimised symbian ( 5th edition and symbian^3) compare with symbian 3rd edition in terms of responsiveness and overall useability. I recently bought a Nexus One and I find it considerably slower to use than my old trusty N82 even though all the specs suggest otherwise. I got a feeling that a physical button is always going to be more responsive than a touchscreen regardless of how good the technology gets. Even though I use Android now, I keep an eye on symbian and Im waiting for a phone and/or Symbian OS that will make me return to symbian. I have a feeling though that the OS's are getting less usable as technology progresses because they try to do too many things, most of them useless in day to day usage. In my opinion the ideal OS would be something that has the stability and usability of symbian 3rd edition plus a lot more native applications. Am I asking too much?
It would be great to take your thoughts on this topic.Thanks

  #22  
Old 03-09-2010, 07:00 AM
doonit doonit is offline
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In my use-case I've read some of my feeds for an hour before I leave home in the morning. I make a lot of calls, use gps and play music all day long. Emails, quickoffice and more feeds all get used a lot in a typical day. I seldom make it to lunchtime on a single charge. All of this means that I need to always have a car charger and a regular charger with me at all times. And it's been the same with every smartphone I've owned over the last 6 years. My argument is that these are MOBILE devices but if I'm having to carry so many periferal gadgets around then it's not really a mobile device. I might as well just keep my laptop with me for my web needs, buy a gps for getting around and an Ipod for music. So battery life negates the whole concept of convergence.
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  #23  
Old 03-09-2010, 03:09 PM
Will81 Will81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
If Symbian took an app that does a regular poll to its remote service in the background and said "this is a push service" then they would have one. All the push services are just simulated push, not real except the ones based on BES.
What Apple, RIM and presumably Microsoft are doing is consolidating all push services onto one server. This means that the phone only needs to maintain one connection to the Symbian or Nokia push server instead of having each app attempting to maintain its own connection.

This should reduce the amount of CPU cycles and radio access on the phone and help improve battery life. It also means that developers will not need to create their own push notification service which may not be as efficient as the push service built into the OS.

RIM's push technology is no better than anyone else's. They may be first to bring push-email to the masses but their NOC-based system which requires specific Blackberry carrier connections is archaic. Like tnkgrl said on the Engadget Mobile podcast, I wish RIM (or at least their stupid carrier connections) would just die.

Quote:
I seldom make it to lunchtime on a single charge.
Sounds like you should get yourself one of those Mugen ultra-high capacity batteries which makes your phone twice as thick. That should get you through a day on one charge.

  #24  
Old 03-09-2010, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Will81 View Post
What Apple, RIM and presumably Microsoft are doing is consolidating all push services onto one server. This means that the phone only needs to maintain one connection to the Symbian or Nokia push server instead of having each app attempting to maintain its own connection.

.
Symbian/S60 support imap idle, natively and through apps like profimail. Apple and Google Android both license ActiveSync from Microsoft.

There's no real push because the server can never be consistently aware of how to locate the client, unless the client connects to the internet and advertises itself on each WifI/cell network it connects to every time it connects.

  #25  
Old 03-09-2010, 06:33 PM
Seymon
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I agree with you, Steve!
I'm proudly possesing a white N86 and I really love it.
Especially the battery life is excellent at sometimes a whole week with modest use...
My prior N73 reached that, too, with only 1100mAh!!
And i really like the non-daily charging, which - like you said - is normally at android devices etc...

But with the upcoming N8 (as a symbian-lover a dream device :-) *drool* ) there'll maybe arrive battery problems...

but what about the idea to use this "new" external battery packs with usb-cable like Nokia is already selling?

  #26  
Old 03-09-2010, 10:54 PM
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Battery Life

Can't say I've ever had a problem with battery life, or not anything that I've considered a problem anyway. 5230, I'd say it generally manages a week easily. I don't have any particular regime, just plug it in for the night when it's down to two or three bars. If the battery is low then I will stop using web and apps though. Probably use for an hour of internet browsing per day, plus a couple of text messages. Might play an hour or so of music in the evenings, which knocks the battery life down to a few days, still perfectly acceptable.

If I'm running the GPS constantly (OVI maps), then, yes, the battery only lasts a few hours (about 6 before warnings in my experience), but if I'm using the phone for navigation, I'm in the car anyway and it's still better than any satnav I've used for battery life. Only other point is that when using GPS, I frequently have the phone in "offline" mode to avoid roaming charges, which presumably helps the battery a bit. By this point I've already hit the car charger though, so the six hour figure above is for online, not offline.

I'm in a mixed 2G/3G environment if that makes any difference, only get a 3G signal at work, home is either very weak 3G (drops calls often) or moderate 2G. Between work and home there is no signal at all. Not sure how this impacts battery life, but I don't imagine it helps.
 

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