All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #16  
Old 28-06-2010, 01:57 PM
viipottaja viipottaja is offline
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Steve, another great, informative article, especially for some one non-technical like me!

However, I think it could have been even better. I would hope you could explain and perhaps even help undestand a few more things, in addition to a basically factual/statistical presentation of what some phones have and others don't.

So:

1) you say that its a good idea to use resources close to their limit; explain why? I guess you mean price, power consumption etc. but did you have something else in mind too?

2) speaking of price - how much would doubling RAM cost? Has its price gone down the same way other components likely have? And before someone says "$X is nothing" - no its not nothing - margins matter and arguably Nokia's success so far has been largely about shaving costs and preserving margin. obviously, that can be taken too far and may well have been with N97/S60v5.

3) speaking of power consumption - I've seen comments that RAM consumes power - how much truth is there to that?

4) you mention in passing that there may have been some OS/architecture limitations to adding more RAM. I had no idea! Can you explain what those are/were? (Yes, I did see Sammy and SE were able to solve it but still would be intersted to hear what the challenges were).

5) User cases - you mention that for many users even current N97 RAM is sufficient (obviously also for the most vocal users it was not). This is a more generic request for the AAS crew as a whole - could you write a piece on what you know from user case studies? For example, I saw Rafe make a comment that he is continuously surprised how low on that list calendar functionality is. What else suprises you? How many people actually browse on the phone as we do? etc. Might make interesting and illuminating reading, and help understand why Nokia or any other vendor may choose to include or omit a feature or allocate resources for development of a particular feature.

  #17  
Old 28-06-2010, 02:13 PM
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carman58 carman58 is offline
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Ram

Interesting article as ever, and sadly as an N97 user I'm fully aware of the need for both a bigger C memory and much much more RAM :( Really hope Nokia start 'over engineering' there handsets so they can at least compete with the opposition and the phones will work as advertised !

  #18  
Old 28-06-2010, 02:22 PM
bchliu bchliu is offline
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I'll try not to be too cynical here.. on one hand Steve, you write this article about how important the RAM size is to a phone.. in comparison to your previous article about the smart phone comparisons when the N8 "wins out" despite it having HALF as much RAM as its competitors (iphone and HTC). So which way is it? Oh.. Dont use the "Android and iOS takes more RAM" - simply by the fact that they already win out in doubling the RAM size as it is.

Whilst Symbian does a good job at memory management, we cannot also forget that its notorious for memory leaks. A freshly booted N97 might have 50MB to start, but give it two days of heavy use (closing and opening applications), this maximum will drop down to the mid-30's. It wont be long before requiring a reboot when the Internet browser complains of "Out of memory" errors. The reason? Every time an app closes, it does not close fully leaving some details in memory. This accumulates over time (happens especially with the Mail application) leaving less RAM to play with. My Vivaz falls into the same boat with 150MB to boot, and lowering to 117MB over a few days.

Symbian really lacks the Virtual memory. If they can do this, then it will make things a lot better (but still does not justify for underpowering your device).

  #19  
Old 28-06-2010, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bchliu View Post
I'll try not to be too cynical here.. on one hand Steve, you write this article about how important the RAM size is to a phone.. in comparison to your previous article about the smart phone comparisons when the N8 "wins out" despite it having HALF as much RAM as its competitors (iphone and HTC). So which way is it? Oh.. Dont use the "Android and iOS takes more RAM" - simply by the fact that they already win out in doubling the RAM size as it is.

).
Well, it really does depend on how it performs in the real world. Just counting numbers is no guide.

And nobody can realistically judge N8 memory use based on N97 memory leaks.

  #20  
Old 28-06-2010, 03:10 PM
boxieblue boxieblue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchliu View Post
...your previous article about the smart phone comparisons when the N8 "wins out" despite it having HALF as much RAM as its competitors (iphone and HTC)....

...

Symbian really lacks the Virtual memory. If they can do this, then it will make things a lot better (but still does not justify for underpowering your device)...

N8, rather the Symbian^3 OS, brings the feature of "writable demand paging", which has been clearly mentioned in this article. So despite having a lesser amount of RAM, using it will make it seem as if there is actually a lot more. The reason is that only the most active applications remain in RAM, while the rest are written to disk space. AFAIK, no competitor (incl. WebOS, Android, iOS, Blackberry OS, WP7, Bada) offers the feature so far...

  #21  
Old 28-06-2010, 03:29 PM
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Can somebody please explain in noob friendly words how to add an extra language to my X6?

  #22  
Old 28-06-2010, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by UnregAli View Post
Can somebody please explain in noob friendly words how to add an extra language to my X6?
read this:
http://www.techhail.com/mobiles/noki...-firmware/3193

  #23  
Old 28-06-2010, 03:53 PM
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Question writeable demand paging

Well this idea is very promising for Lower ram devices as its a standard feature of symbian 3, i wonder is it possible to backport this feature to RAM Crawling devices like N97 and symbian 1 devices

  #24  
Old 28-06-2010, 04:51 PM
viipottaja viipottaja is offline
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bchliu, well the category you refer to N8 was "multi-tasking, processor and speedt". So not just RAM. Yes, I think Steve should have split that category to three at least (multi-tasking on its own, speed on its own, and processor spec on its own)/

  #25  
Old 28-06-2010, 09:29 PM
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N8 has over 150 Mb of RAM left in most proto devices.... It should be higher.
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  #26  
Old 28-06-2010, 09:46 PM
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N8 has over 150 Mb of RAM left in most proto devices.... It should be higher.
Why? Have you had a problem where you have run out of RAM with it?

  #27  
Old 28-06-2010, 10:23 PM
Tenkom Tenkom is offline
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The n900 is in serious need of more physical ram. The swap partition is slow and when the phone starts using it things get seriously laggy.

  #28  
Old 29-06-2010, 09:02 AM
dg1974 dg1974 is offline
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Symbian^1

Steve, the main problem with N97 and N97 mini is that the RAM is just too small, as shown in your diagram, can you guys lobby Nokia for the same memory management as Symbian^3. After all, they are supposed to be the flagship devices, and surely they can spend sometime back porting features from Symbian^3 to make their flagship devices work like a flagship device should do.
I can live with the phone being as slow as a 3 legged dog, but after running a few background apps like best profiles, I often only have 10MB free. Pushing the OS that far makes the phone unreliable and forces me to reboot the phone.

  #29  
Old 29-06-2010, 11:25 AM
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Sorry for my pessimism. Having used HTC android sets, I have lost all sympathy toward Nokia . All their so called flagships to this day crash and burn when more than 3 web pages are open. I wonder where do you find the sweet spot. It is hard for someone to be pleased with these measly amounts of RAM unless they haven't used anything but a Nokia set. We can wallow all we want in the knowledge that symbian requires less RAM. The reality is that these phones ate dead slow. There is no shortcut to good hardware that OS worthy of flagship lable

  #30  
Old 29-06-2010, 12:05 PM
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Steve, the main problem with N97 and N97 mini is that the RAM is just too small, /.
WOW! you are QUICK!

Good thing you posted that or we would never have known.
 

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