All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #16  
Old 22-04-2010, 03:42 PM
Ian 2
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"We will not ship the product before the quality meets the demand of the end user."

Judging by the N97's road to acceptable quality they may release Symbian^3 phone late 2011 Or never...

  #17  
Old 22-04-2010, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I find it very hard to sympathize with Nokia after the N97 debacle. Nokia's "high-end" flagships have been hobbled by some extremely poor engineering choices. And far from fixing those problems, they continue to perpetuate designs based on underpowered chips with inadequate memory - witness the new C series. It's as if they insist on passing off those outdated components - even to high-end consumers -hoping no one notices the inferior performance. This has everything to do with leadership and management decision.
I think that why they made a statement saying Symbian^3 devices will only come when ready. That's a strong signal to me.

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Originally Posted by snoFlake View Post
Looking at market cap, profitability and cash reserves rather than rumoured bid for ARM Apple should take over Nokia - instant low end portfolio and developing nation penetration and really great new open source OS
One might almost think you were trying to wind up two sets of people at the same time... Mutually Assured Destruction?

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You didn't look at the geographical split. Nokia dominate in Africa and Latin America. In the other more important markets they aren't doing too well. :(
I didn't, but there's not really a lot there that can't be explained by a) seasonality (Christmas, Chinese New Year) b) improving economic conditions (YoY results) c) small bases (for the larger percentage numbers).
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  #18  
Old 22-04-2010, 04:03 PM
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I don't care if they need four more weeks to finish the OS and the smartphone, but please, just make it good, without bugs (or at least without the obvious ones).

  #19  
Old 22-04-2010, 04:26 PM
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How it is possible, that Nokia 2010 Q1 market share is ca. 33% and it's up from last Q1, but it was 37%.

What is the new method to count market share?

  #20  
Old 22-04-2010, 07:21 PM
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The year-on-year growth in smartphones is very encouraging on the face of it. But as Symbian^1 devices work their way down the Nokia portfolio is it that surprising. Imagine a year from now where S60 devices have all but supplanted S40 handsets, will the majority of their shipments be 'smartphones' with requisite impressive numbers?

Not that I wish to spark any debate into what is or is not a smartphone, but if all Nokias become smartphones by default, does this not warrant a more detailed segmentation of Nokias smartphone numbers? It would be a good marketing ploy for Espoo to say that a year hence, EVERY Nokia is a smartphone?

  #21  
Old 22-04-2010, 07:53 PM
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Nokia gaining smartphone market shares?

I think it is important to point out that Nokia isn't really gaining new market shares. It more like converting people who used the S40 (dumb phone) user to S60 through their competitive pricing.

I the near future, phones will not be labeled as smart vs dumb, but more as in "high" vs "mid" and 'low' tier phones.

Nokia will make every phone a smart phone going forward simply by making them affordable; the division and analysis of smart vs dumb phone breakdown is going to blur.

  #22  
Old 22-04-2010, 09:35 PM
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Yipee more Nokia news!!!!

I wonder how they dismiss news of Google Maps with voice navigation is now avaiable in the UK for all android 1.6 devices and above.

  #23  
Old 22-04-2010, 09:41 PM
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Nokia still produces crap phones, period

Crap phones are ok for Africa and Latin America.

Well done Nokia!

  #24  
Old 22-04-2010, 11:06 PM
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Nokia still produces crap phones, period

!
Period ?

Nah. Bullshit.

  #25  
Old 22-04-2010, 11:08 PM
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Yipee more Nokia news!!!!

I wonder how they dismiss news of Google Maps with voice navigation is now avaiable in the UK for all android 1.6 devices and above.
Have Google fixed the ridiculous maps having to be downloaded problem yet?

Any good sat nav device has a stored internal map. Any device that doesn't is useless out of connection area.
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  #26  
Old 23-04-2010, 01:37 AM
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profit margin

I found out Apple they sell iphone with very hight profit margin. nokia seem very fairly play with user, sell with a low profit margin, It's worth to use nokia, also offer a rich free application for nokia user too.

so i feel iphone is cheating user

  #27  
Old 23-04-2010, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
How it is possible, that Nokia 2010 Q1 market share is ca. 33% and it's up from last Q1, but it was 37%.

What is the new method to count market share?
http://www.nokia.com/press/press-rel...newsid=1393524

"Beginning in 2010, Nokia is revising its definition of the industry mobile device market that it uses to estimate industry volumes. This is due to improved measurement processes and tools that enable Nokia to have better visibility to estimate the number of mobile devices sold by certain new entrants in the global mobile device market. These include vendors of legitimate, as well as unlicensed and counterfeit, products with manufacturing facilities primarily centered around certain locations in Asia and other emerging markets."

  #28  
Old 23-04-2010, 12:15 PM
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Hard to accept

Instead of raving about possible expansion in emerging markets, just sincerly answer the following simple question:

Would you like the idea of having Nokia stocks in your pension portfolio?

My answer is `no`. For longterm investors the stock is a total failure, having now the same value as 11 years ago and no product or idea which would help fighting two competitors. With p/e close to 30 and limited chance to expand, this stock seems to be doomed.

Sorry for repeating the truism, but they do not have a breakthrough product, unlikely have anyting interesting this year and actually the best Nokia for your money is a second hand phone, depending on your needs something like e71, e63, e61, e90 or n95, n82, n86 (or one from each category .

  #29  
Old 23-04-2010, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henryk View Post
Would you like the idea of having Nokia stocks in your pension portfolio?
Since they pay dividends I would. Pensions funds depend on a lot more than just raw stock price.

  #30  
Old 23-04-2010, 03:04 PM
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Really? Seems they're doing pretty well to me, if you read the relevant sections of the doc. They had a 27% fall Year on Year in North America, but so what, the US is a minor mobile market globally (despite the amount of hype and hot air coming out of there) and Nokia traditionally doesn't do well in the US. APAC fell 3% too but again so what, Nokia practically own the region - even in smartphones alone Symbian devices (mostly Nokia) command over 80% smartphone market share there!
And every other region saw growth between 2% and 42%. That's not "aren't doing too well".
Really? Do you really have proof that NA/US is a minor market? Maybe to the >500m subscriber base in India and China (which btw was a very lucky guess based on estimating by total population in those countries), but NA is probably #3 or #4 in the world. quoting (very reluctantly) from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._phones_in_use

My point being - your guess is poor and baseless.

As for Nokia's performance numbers, Mr Mark, the analyst are rarely right, but it's very easy to pick apart Nokia's number and show them how much their product managers are goats just by using their own press release - the drop in average handset price drop was probably what set off the sell off of Nokia shares (64EUR -> 62EUR), because it's nearly impossible to drop the price of low end handsets, which means their "high-end" handsets are probably mispriced to start with and the market forced the drop. Which comes back to some keen observations by many ppl - S60 is pretty irrelevant in the high end market (just look at the continuing drop of the N-series and the bare crawl of the E series), while S40 is continually replaced by S60 (I think there's maybe only ONE s40 handset released in 2009). The argument that Nokia's performance is acceptable is pretty apologetic. i'm pretty unimpressed about Android's performance because so many different variations have hit the market has hit market but barely make a dent relatively, but Apple has only TWO base variations (I don't count the different storage sizes as variations) of their products, but managed to sell 25mil, which basically blows any single Nokia handset out of the market. My point being - Nokia is making a really huge bet on Symbian^3. Few investors ever have the appetite to play in that kind of game because it means Nokia's back is pretty much against the wall in the high end market as they've pretty much ran out of value offerings on the high end smartphone market. BTW, as you can see, this is a response to your posting last time, so please do enlighten us hear on how Nokia as actually making progress in the high end smartphone market, preferably by comparing product by product sales figures. I can almost guarantee you that any number you'll find will show how much a laughing stock Nokia products are on a single product level (adoption rate by big corporations, market sales by product region in high end smartphones, consumer satisfaction, retail sales). I never disputed nokia's overall market performance, but my argument remains - Symbian is pretty irrelevant on the high-end smartphone market. the N97 is probably their best offering in features, but the numbers there are pitiful relative to their competition, and the e-series are considered mid range handsets now, not even enterprise business class handsets. The numbered handsets are low-end handsets that were meant to be given away. Do you have comparisons on which pay monthly tariffs their handsets are on offered? It's not enough to just say they're given away free as well, because the tariff range pretty much tells which market it's targeted for. But I can see you're just as enthralled by the shoddy Nokia marketing spin machine as every other arrogant Nokia fanboy there is out there. Meanwhile, investors (including me) and consumers (the ppl really financing Nokia) are continually pissed.

-Gene
 

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