All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

Go Back   All About Symbian Forums > News and Comments > Series 60

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

  #1  
Old 02-08-2010, 12:58 PM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,002
slitchfield is on a distinguished road
The 'full web' still unattainable for many when mobile - Help needed!

You've seen the 'pinching and zooming' adverts for many (non-Symbian) smartphones, showing lightning fast manipulation of full desktop-class web page renders, with new pages 'coming down' in a matter of seconds. "It's the Internet in your pocket" say the promos. And, from my own observations, for many people this is utter pie in the sky. Out in the real world, mobile coverage and bandwidth falls diabolically short - which partly helps explain the popularity of a certain proxy-based web browser that works on everything and enables not the 'real web', but more 'looks and feels a lot like the real web, but isn't really'...


Read on in the full article.

  #2  
Old 02-08-2010, 01:37 PM
Ratkat's Avatar
Ratkat Ratkat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pompey
Posts: 680
Ratkat is on a distinguished road
A good article that makes a lot of valid points...

but as a developer I am going to disagree that most web pages are developed using WYSIWYG editors, in fact I'd say it's exactly the opposite.
With the evolving web's reliance on CSS along with Javascript libraries, jquery, ajax etc etc it is near impossible to develop in the WYSIWYG environment.
__________________
Symbian Phone History: 7650, P800, P900, N-Gage, 7610, 6630, 6680, N70 x 3, N80, 5500, N95, N95 8GB, E51, N82, E71, 5800x5, E75, N97, E52, N97 Mini, N8 Currently using: a busted E71 (as a voip phone)



Cost Effective Web Design Nximedia

  #3  
Old 02-08-2010, 04:46 PM
Davescot Davescot is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 26
Davescot is on a distinguished road
Very good article. In my area there's no 3G whatsoever, not even edge so I rely heavily on Opera Mini and Bolt when browsing away from home which do a reasonable job most of th time.

  #4  
Old 02-08-2010, 04:53 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
My most recent train journey was on a National Express, WiFi was available on board, so no problem with tunnel dropouts. There are also bus companies with onboard WiFi.

However, the 3G/3.5G coverage frequently falls short of what is promised in the UK, which makes me laugh when people talk about Google Maps being any use for nav. It's shite.

  #5  
Old 02-08-2010, 04:56 PM
davidmaxwaterma davidmaxwaterma is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 338
davidmaxwaterma is on a distinguished road
B=Byte b=bits

I think the usual understanding is that B refers to bytes and b to bits. Also, base connection speeds are almost always quoted in bits per second, though the amount of data you can transfer is in bytes per second.

I don't think people use bits instead of bytes in an effort to inflate the numbers - we're not talking about disk drives here.

  #6  
Old 02-08-2010, 07:07 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmaxwaterma View Post
I think the usual understanding is that B refers to bytes and b to bits. Also, base connection speeds are almost always quoted in bits per second, though the amount of data you can transfer is in bytes per second.

I don't think people use bits instead of bytes in an effort to inflate the numbers - we're not talking about disk drives here.
Agreed, it's always been the convention to refer to data comms capacity in bits per second. The calculation to determine how long it should take to transfer a number of Bytes over a given link in bits/s is not a simple multiply by 8 either. There are overheads for TCP/IP and MTUs and other wrapping protocols and all the clever stuff that goes on to encode symbols over RF and error detect/correct them. It's possible to add on a percentage to get a rule of thumb though.

When I get 3.5G with good signal strenth things are pretty rapid. I wouldn't rely on it though, so back a couple of weeks or so to the discussion about cloud services, no thank you - and this is the reason why.

  #7  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:36 PM
jApi NL's Avatar
jApi NL jApi NL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,146
jApi NL is on a distinguished road
Smile Ovi Browser

Opera Mini is my best friend for mobile internet , regardless Wifi , 2G , 3,5G , including Gmail . The links in Mail are also rendered by OM . It's a grand pity , this weeks released OVI browser by Betalabs only works on S40 . I have got it installed on my S60 device . Opening OVI Browser up , there is a message popping up : Warning : "OVI browser does not run on this device" . There is also one Option : "Close" .
I think it's a missed opportunity .....

Regards jApi NL
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OVI Browser.jpg (13.0 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by jApi NL; 02-08-2010 at 11:45 PM. Reason: Screenshot

  #8  
Old 03-08-2010, 12:18 AM
Tenkom Tenkom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 133
Tenkom is on a distinguished road
The built in s60 browser is always slow... But more on point. Where I live I can happily surf on 3.5G using the built in browser on my iphone or android phone.
Opera mini will always be somewhat faster. Even on wifi. But the difference is not very large on modern phones like a galaxy s or iphone 4. And the rendering, ui, zooming is so much better than in opera mini it's easily worth it for me at least.

S60 browser UI is just ridiculous. In fact. Opera mini offers a better experience regardless of loading speed.
But opera mobile 10.1 for s60 is pretty nice.

But I do have opera mini installed for when I find myself in a edge only area. No reason to limit one's options.

  #9  
Old 03-08-2010, 01:55 AM
Will81
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Nokia problem is....

For me, reception is not the main reason why I find the web browsing experience on a Nokia phone to be lousy. The problem I find is the pathetically low-end CPU Nokia has been using in its "high-end" phones. Webpages these days are complex and they NEED CPU power to render them in an acceptable amount of time.

I cannot believe that in Q4 2010, Nokia's flagship phone, the N8, will sport a 600 MHz ARM11 CPU. At that point, other manufacturers would have been using higher speed (up to 1GHz) Cortex-A8 CPUs, or equivalent designs like the Qualcomm Scorpion, for almost two years. These phones, which are already on the market, have more than 3 times the CPU power than the unreleased Nokia N8.

BTW, when I heard that the Nokia N97, the 2009 Nokia flagship, had a 434 MHz ARM11 CPU, I almost cried.

  #10  
Old 03-08-2010, 05:49 AM
nudger nudger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 30
nudger is on a distinguished road
Opera mobile?

Do the benefits mentioned here translate to Opera Mobile as well as Opera Mini? I know that the former is a native app and the latter a Java one but I don't hear Opera Mobile talked about much and am not sure what the real dfference in performance is. Should I be using Mini instead when the signal isn't great?

The explanation of thr differences on the Opera website doesn't help me, I'm afraid..

  #11  
Old 03-08-2010, 05:55 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by nudger View Post
Do the benefits mentioned here translate to Opera Mobile as well as Opera Mini? I know that the former is a native app and the latter a Java one but I don't hear Opera Mobile talked about much and am not sure what the real dfference in performance is. Should I be using Mini instead when the signal isn't great?

The explanation of thr differences on the Opera website doesn't help me, I'm afraid..
You need Opera Mini to get the compressed low bandwidth feed from the Opera proxy.

Opera mobile is a good browser for interpreting standards for small screen but connects directly to the website.

Opera mini connects to Opera proxy server and takes the compressed/stripped feed - although you might find some features of the original website are sacrificed for the speed.

  #12  
Old 03-08-2010, 06:01 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will81 View Post
For me, reception is not the main reason why I find the web browsing experience on a Nokia phone to be lousy. The problem I find is the pathetically low-end CPU Nokia has been using in its "high-end" phones. Webpages these days are complex and they NEED CPU power to render them in an acceptable amount of time.

I cannot believe that in Q4 2010, Nokia's flagship phone, the N8, will sport a 600 MHz ARM11 CPU. At that point, other manufacturers would have been using higher speed (up to 1GHz) Cortex-A8 CPUs, or equivalent designs like the Qualcomm Scorpion, for almost two years. These phones, which are already on the market, have more than 3 times the CPU power than the unreleased Nokia N8.

BTW, when I heard that the Nokia N97, the 2009 Nokia flagship, had a 434 MHz ARM11 CPU, I almost cried.
The 434 MHz ARM11 in the N97 should be measured against the 412MHZ ARM11 in the iPhone 3G. (although the iPhone had graphics accelerator to support the CPU).

I disagree that the Nokia flagship phone will be the N8, it's now going to be their mid range phone, with Meego devices supplying the "flagship"(I hate that geeky word flagship). The price of the phone purchased as handset only will be below the ones with 1GHz in to reflect this.

I personally (like the vast majority of buyers) couldn't give a flying fig about the number on the CPU and I will only judge a phone by how it works for me.
Ads

  #13  
Old 03-08-2010, 06:47 AM
malerocks's Avatar
malerocks malerocks is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 644
malerocks is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You need Opera Mini to get the compressed low bandwidth feed from the Opera proxy.

Opera mobile is a good browser for interpreting standards for small screen but connects directly to the website.

Opera mini connects to Opera proxy server and takes the compressed/stripped feed - although you might find some features of the original website are sacrificed for the speed.
That is not so. Opera Mobile uses the proxy to compress data as well. However, this facility is turned off by default in Opera Mobile. If you go to settings within opera mobile and turn on Opera Turbo, it starts using the proxy to compress data.

Both compress data, but the mini does a better job at compressing than mobile. This is because even though it compresses, mobile retains a lot of the site (fancy) features that you can use (unlike mini).

  #14  
Old 03-08-2010, 07:12 AM
Cox Ukka
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by malerocks View Post
That is not so. Opera Mobile uses the proxy to compress data as well. However, this facility is turned off by default in Opera Mobile. If you go to settings within opera mobile and turn on Opera Turbo, it starts using the proxy to compress data.

Both compress data, but the mini does a better job at compressing than mobile. This is because even though it compresses, mobile retains a lot of the site (fancy) features that you can use (unlike mini).
This is from the FAQ at Opera.com (http://www.opera.com/mobile/help/faq/)

What is the difference between Opera Mini and Opera Mobile?

Opera Mini and Opera Mobile look the same, so what’s the difference? Opera Mini, Opera Mobile and Opera for desktop all share the same rendering engine, Opera Presto. With Opera Mini, this is located on a server. In Opera Mobile, it is installed on your phone.

When you request a page in Opera Mini, the request is sent to the Opera Mini server that then downloads the page from the Internet. The server then packages your page up in a neat little compressed format (we call it OBML), ready to send back to your phone at the speed of ninjas on jetpacks.

When you request a page in Opera Mobile, the page is sent directly to your phone from the place from which you requested it, meaning you do not rely on the Opera Mini server. This means that the page is displayed just as it would in Opera for desktop. Your phone has to do a bit of work here, meaning that older phones might struggle.

By using Opera Mini, our servers do most of the work, so it works well with less- capable phones. Pages are often smaller (saving you money) and faster to load due our server-side compression. Opera Mobile can compress pages also, by enabling Opera Turbo.

Opera Mobile is only available if you have a Windows Mobile or Symbian/S60 phone. Opera Mini is available for a much wider range of handsets. To see which version(s) of Opera your phone is capable of running, see the

  #15  
Old 03-08-2010, 08:13 AM
SFx86 SFx86 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5
SFx86 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Litchfield
[...] The truth is that most sites are designed using WYSIWYG or wizard-based tools far removed from the original raw text tags.[...]
Please Steve, as a person using HoTMetaL PRO 5.0 don't talk about what mayorities use in web design ...
 

Bookmarks

Tags
mobile, needed, unattainable, web

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:00 PM.


vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Notes || Contact Us || Privacy Policy