All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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Old 04-07-2010, 10:04 PM
traecer traecer is offline
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Nokia is deluding itself...

Just when we were starting to see clarity with Nokia's way forward, they go and muck it up again. By being unclear about the positioning of MeeGo and Symbian, by not having competitive phones on the market with either OS, Nokia are ruining the prospects for either, and damaging Qt's hopes to be a competitive mobile platform.

One problem, the complete lack of competitive phones, can't be fixed by Nokia now. They need to be working on these devices and get them out the door as quickly as possible, with as few bugs as possible. Period.

The other problem, the lack of clarity of Nokia's future product roadmap, can and needs to be fixed by Nokia *immediately.* They need to provide clear guidance about where they see MeeGo and Symbian, and draw a clear line between the two. Also, they need to be emphasizing the way forward for developers is Qt, Qt, Qt.

IMHO, the first thing they need to do is redraw the *series product map. There seemed to be some clarity where the Nseries was going when they announced the N8 would be the last Symbian Nseries, but now even that is muddled. If the various series are indeed just marketing, then here's how Nokia needs to layout the product lines for the current and future market:

Nseries - exclusively MeeGo-powered, 2 main devices, N9 and N10**, to compete directly with iPhone and iPad, respectively. When someone thinks Nseries, they need to think "MeeGo." Obviously tablet devices with relatively large touchscreens (especially the N10), may or may not have QWERTY sliding keyboards depending on market conditions.

Xseries - multimedia phones running Symbian^3 (or 4) - several phones focused on music and camera tech. All tablet devices with smaller screens than the Nseries, no physical keyboards. With a memory and OS upgrade to Symbian^3, the X6 carries over almost unchanged, with a variety of storage sizes. In addition, since "media" also means "camera", the forthcoming N8 device is simply relabeled the X8, and slots in as the top end X device. Another device, the X7, could be for the more budget-aware cameraphone buyer, carrying a Carl Zeiss-equipped camera (of lesser MP than the X8), but with LED flash and the smaller memory storage of the X6.

Eseries - continues to be choice of the business user. All have QWERTY keyboards, either in old-world E71-candybar style or as touchscreen sliders, though there still may be room at the low end for E75-like non-touchscreen sliders. Again, these devices would be Symbian-powered, with screens smaller than the Nseries. Top of the Eseries would be something like the N/E9 whose photos are making the rounds of the rumor mill (which in my new world numbering would be called the E8). There should be room in this line for a less powerful E7, perhaps with less memory and/or smaller screen. E6 could be a new version of the E75 nontouchscreen slider, and E5 could be a E71-style candybar, for as long as those device form factors are viable in the market.

Cseries - as before, the Cseries phones are the consumer-oriented replacements for all those numbered phones not even Nokia could keep track of. However, note that in my new world scheme, there is little if any overlap between the Cseries and the E and X phones. This is reflected in the numbering: top of the line Cseries would be the C5 which would have small, low-res touchscreen w/o QWERTY keyboard, less storage than X6. The other Cseries would be numbered 1-4 and have T9 keypads (or maybe sliders with QWERTY keyboards, ala AT&T Nokia Surge). They may even be able to get by with S60 3.2, since they would be targeted at the got-this-from-the-carrier-for-free market. Primary reason for Cseries in the new world is to impress consumer enough with Nokia brand they will eventually want to move up to E-, X-, or Nseries phone.

All the while, Nokia should be pushing Qt. "You want your app to run on N-, E-, and Xseries devices? Develop a Qt app!" They should be stressing how easy it is to develop a Qt app, and putting together tools that not only help developers write apps, but easily get them to the Ovi Store. They are trying here some, but they need to do better.

Some of you will say that my scheme is very close to Nokia's, and it is, but there are key points that make all the difference:
* Nseries == MeeGo == do everything communications device. These are the best devices with the cutting edge OS. Strong branding, strong marketing for strong devices.
* Xseries has been marketed by Nokia as media devices, but their lackluster cameras and lame music player software have made them look half-hearted at best. As I've outlined, the Xseries truly becomes the "mediaphone" line. For those niche buyers that are primarily looking for a cameraphone, the X8 and X7 will serve them well. Those younger, teenaged buyers that want a musicphone can [get their parents to] look at the X6, which will serve up all the music and videos they want at a price much less than the Nseries.
* Eseries more clearly becomes the business messaging phones they are supposed to be, with little overlap between the Nseries above and Cseries below. They are smartphones for those that don't quite need full Nseries (or iPhone or Android) power.

Ultimately, my "new Nokia world" is about giving each line a clear identity that consumers can understand. Gone are the days where a Cseries device (or the old numbered phones) is more powerful than some E- or X-series, or an Eseries device ends up being a better quality phone than the Nseries. Good phones with clear brand identities will help customers choose the phone they need. Choosing a good phone that fits a customer's lifestyle and budget will help build brand loyalty, and consumers will come back to the Nokia brand.

**(Oh, yeah, that N10 thing...I just threw that in there because I think Nokia ultimately wants to make such a thing to compete with the iPad, and the netbook market in general. The original Maemo devices were about halfway between iPhone and iPad, and the Booklet device shows them trying to build a presence there. Ultimately, a iPad-sized device, running MeeGo with the netbook profile, could be an interesting device in the Nseries line, and could compliment a MeeGo-powered phone-sized device. IF it's clear to everyone that Nseries == MeeGo. IMHO, anyway.)

Old 04-07-2010, 10:30 PM
Abushaheed Abushaheed is offline
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In reading all the comments here I am realising that there is one thing that seems not to be getting the attention it truly deserves: the fact that better from Nokia is always "coming soon". People are being sucked into the iPhone/Android bandwagon because they are addressing issues now! Yes the iPhone is flawed and Android is immature, but people seem to be prepared to deal with that for cutting edge (with all its flaws) right now. Nokia appears always to be several steps behind. Focusing on past success won't bring customers back, only innovation in a timely fashion will. In a nutshell: Don't talk about what you plan to do in the future, do something now! The fact that Symbian is the most complete OS out there doesn't mean anything without quality USER FRIENDLY devices to run it on.

Old 05-07-2010, 02:33 AM
-raleigh- -raleigh- is offline
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The last ditch blog?

@Rafe Just a side question. Is that correct that you are the last bastion of symbianism?

Old 05-07-2010, 05:27 AM
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It is going to be very hard for Nokia to win back a customer if the customer is converted to iPhone or Android. My personal experience shows that when you have an account in iTunes, it is very hard for you to move to other platform. Apple is using the iTunes to tie the customers from leaving...

Old 05-07-2010, 06:31 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Originally Posted by snoFlake View Post
Steve it would seem from their website ( )and the fact that there's now nothing in the Ovi store for N97 that (much to my frustration) Evernote have dropped Symbian support.
Well, spotted. They had a dedicated 'for Nokia' forum until recently, albeit in beta. They seem to have pulled it for whatever reason. Shame because the beta Evernote widget worked rather well, I thought. I can upload it here if anyone's interested?
Steve Litchfield, Admin, AAS

Old 05-07-2010, 06:34 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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"Steve, could you please provide some names of internet radio apps?"

I just searched for "Radio" in the Ovi Store and there they were. Also, TuneWiki has a full Shoutcast player built- in, I believe?
Steve Litchfield, Admin, AAS

Old 05-07-2010, 06:39 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Originally Posted by dongivafac View Post
Actually, sock puppet names like "UKJeeper" are no different from "unregistered" so why not block them too?
I for one enjoy UKJeeper's posts - I love having stimulating discussions as long as people are prepared to stand up and be counted. It's just frustrating when both decent posters and trolls all hide behind Unregistered anonymity.
Steve Litchfield, Admin, AAS

Old 05-07-2010, 06:56 AM
shiv179 shiv179 is offline
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Exclamation Nokia needs to do leaps and bounds

While I am a Symbian fan, Nokia still needs to do more.

Using the numbers game is meaningless -> if Symbian is sooooo wide spread, why hasn't Nokia taken advantage of this?
Instead they release devices with insufficient RAM (not a Symbian problem I know, but what will the user think?), and a sub-par touch interface.

Not to mention the fact that there seems to be no standards -> some apps work on certain devices only -> I mean really now -> where's the compatibility?
Any device running Symbian OS should be able to run 99% of all apps.
And also the sneaky behaviour of Nokia-only APIs...

The iPhone has a fraction of Symbian's market share, yet boast 10000x more apps -> a much better distribution system (App Store), allowing developers to make money, guaranteed compatibility, and possibly simpler to develop for (not too sure about this, remember reading about this).

I dislike anything Apple, but they do seem to do some things correctly, Nokia can learn from them!!

Old 05-07-2010, 09:22 AM
Hurlley Hurlley is offline
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I am a Nokia fan (not fanboy) so I think im critical where need be, not bashing, if there something wrong we need to say it, if you all just sit happy nothing will improve.

The main thing at AAS you bring up is numbers and market share, so what if Nokia has a greater market share? should they just sit happy, I think we all know Nokia is not where we want it to be and our devices are not what we want them to be. Once users realise there is greener grass elsewhere they will go!

Old 05-07-2010, 11:56 AM
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bad bad bad bad bad Nokia.
I want my 600 of inusable N97 (phone? smart-phone? flagship? ... )

Old 05-07-2010, 01:19 PM
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Still too many models

@ tracer - I agree with a lot of your comments, especially in relation to Nokia clarifying their future direction with OS's but I would go even further with limiting the number of handsets.

We all would agree that Nokia has had a stupidly large number of handsets and annoyingly a lot of these have only minor differences making unnecessary confusion for the consumers, increasing manufacturing costs, and creating a huge overhead for development and support.

Yes, Nokia are in the process of reducing the number of handsets but I don't think they plan to do enough and as the tech world has reached a point where it's truly possible to fit every feature in a phone why bother having several phones in each special category (n, x, ,c ,e, etc...). Instead I would suggest that in the smartphone segment (excluding the cheapie pre-paids) Nokia just have three phones: a candy bar form factor including a keyboard and touch screen (business phone); a candy bar with a full touch screen; and a candy bar with a full touch screen and slide-out keyboard. Ideally these would have very similar specs so that the only variations in the firmware are to deal with the different screen resolution and keyboard type.

In conjunction with this I would suggest that Nokia announce a two-tiered phase out of support for current and legacy firmwares. Something like 18 months for current devices and six months for legacy devices, freeing up resources to focus on just one firmware version, the software integration, and the online services.

P.S. Message to Nokia "Stop cheaping out on the hardware (CPU, RAM, NAND memory, etc...) so that it's comparable to the competition's devices for both marketing purposes and also for leaving enough head room for improvements like new features and upgrades from S^3 to S^4"

Old 05-07-2010, 02:58 PM
Hih Hih is offline
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Thumbs down

After spending thousands and thousands euros buying Nokia's Symbian phones, I am saving for Android phone.

I almost vomit when I hear word nokia, symbian or meego.

Old 05-07-2010, 04:30 PM
Posts: n/a
Symbian vs MeeGo

Symbian will be, and is, app centric
MeeGo will be cloud computing centric (that is the future for now)
Nokia now is in change of speed (like cars)

Old 05-07-2010, 05:17 PM
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don't need any apps

WHO needs all those thousands of Apps???
Most of them are just useless. Most of them are just for some teens/geeks who install them all and cry that the phone crashed.

ALL applications I need are already installed in any phone. I don't care about any Apple-App-Store or ovi.
And I don't think it's good idea to invest a lot to have some cool app-store for some few interested geeks.

Do you have all those thousands of appliations installed on your PC???
Those apps is just a marketing trick. In reality nobody needs them.
There are of course some specialized applications some people would need, like medical, financial, or dictionaries but how often would you use them on your little screen anyway - you use them on PDA WITH that old plastick pointer - if you would have to use them with your fingers... they would be professionally useless because of huge letters... oh gosh it's all just illusion, those Apps.

Thank you very much.

Old 05-07-2010, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kazimierz View Post
And I don't think it's good idea to invest a lot to have some cool app-store for some few interested geeks.
It's 2010, wake up. A "few interested geeks" produced over 5 billion total downloads from the Apple AppStore. Busy little geeks, aren't they? You're clueless.


anssi, fightback, nokia, starts, vanjoki

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