All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #61  
Old 26-06-2010, 07:27 AM
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I'm reading this thread and can't help but laugh. Laugh loud! The only site on the planet that tries to put a positive spin on this mess.

Allow me to refresh your memories: a few months ago when rumors were flying high that Nokia was about to ditch Symbian from its' high end portfolio this site's collective blood pressure rose to imaginable proportions and they did all it could to discredit the gossip. Although to be fair to AAS some people at Nokia also tried very hard to kill the pesky rumor that just wouldn’t go away. Guess what folks? Didn't work. Try as you may the Nseries team at Nokia is still saying “see you later” to Symbian.

Now let me remind you at this point that Nseries is Nokia’s premier range of devices. Despite of what Rafe is spinning here the premier range is not X nor C series. It’s the Nseries that is king at Nokia. In case some of you are still doubtful please take a moment to look at this picture and let me know if you still think C series is high end: http://cellphones.techfresh.net/wp-c...handset_01.jpg

Not quite high end, is it folks? More like Series 40 ain't it? So Rafe... please spare us.

The folks in Finland in charge of this company are not stupid. The Nseries product family
represents the best that the company has to offer and quite clearly Symbian was seen as an obstacle to achieving success. Hence the delegation to the low end of the market.

So my dear Symbian apologists, welcome to 2010 and say hello to your Series 40, err…. I mean Symbian phones

Thank you.
I could not have said it better. you nailed it spot on

  #62  
Old 26-06-2010, 07:36 AM
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The N9 is going to have to be damn good!

  #63  
Old 26-06-2010, 08:19 AM
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I could not have said it better. you nailed it spot on
It was way off the mark, a load of negative shyte. It was more screwed than nailed.

There will be Symbian phones named X?? that are media centric and as or more capable than the current N8 and continue to grow. There will be another level of connected mobile computing devices slotted in above them using Meego and named n??.

Sounds good to me for everyone.

Suggesting that Symbian is the new S40 is crass and idiotic. Especially when you consider what Fujitsu have been doing with it.

People who have suffered the ignominy of repeatingly predicting the downfall of Nokia and repeatedly having their negative crap rammed back down their throat can't handle or see it.

  #64  
Old 26-06-2010, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy1 View Post
Also wanted to add:

Nokia needs to get its communications department (and management) sorted, because this news is likely confusing the hell of not only developers, but future customers as well.
What's confusing? Seems pretty simple to me, you'd have to be stupid not to understand.
If any developer is confused then maybe they should consider another career.

  #65  
Old 26-06-2010, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Biggles View Post

Make no mistake, this is terrible news unless the Symbian Foundation can get another manufacturer to commit to high end phones.
Armchair experts need to look at what's going on in Japan.

  #66  
Old 26-06-2010, 10:33 AM
Mr Mark Mr Mark is offline
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I'm reading this thread and can't help but laugh. Laugh loud!
I'm reading your post and kind of doing the same thing.

We've known for a long time that MeeGo is going to the high end. That leaves about 80% of Nokia's smartphone range that will be running Symbian. That's all X and E series. The C Series will largely be S40 and will represent Nokia's entry level range.

The E Series is business oriented and continues to sell well. The X Series is aimed at media phones. There have been some rather silly pronouncements that there is no middle market but the global sales figures completely destroy that argument. Most of Nokia's smartphone sales - more than, say, Apple and Android's combined total sales last year - came from numbered phones which are simply the previous branding convention for the X Series.

So, as we knew, the top end - the N Series - is transitioning to Maemo. In the meantime 80% - or about 55-60 million smartphones a year - will run Symbian.

Sure. Nokia are abandoning Symbian all right.

  #67  
Old 26-06-2010, 03:17 PM
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Sans the rose-tinted glasses

This is basically Nokia admitting that they were caught flatfooted at the high end by Apple, and later Google, and it will have taken them 4 years to get back to a point where they can compete again in the disproportionately profitable segment.

What they are saying is that Symbian is the new S40. In other words, along with the rest of technology, last decade's high-tech is this decade's entry level. To use an analogy, it would be like Sony coming out of nowhere and building a device that caused iPad and iPhone sales to fall (or stagnate as the market expanded), and Apple relaunching iOS onto cheaper devices like the iPod Nano and AppleTV. It wouldn't be cause for celebration at Apple ("iOS is 'expanding' to new markets"). It would be seen as a defensive move as they regroup.

MeeGo appears to be the right OS for moving forward. Hopefully this announcement means that an actual product announcement will be forthcoming. As of now, MeeGo is just vaporware. Maemo had promise, but the N900 was clearly just a prototype offered for sale.

  #68  
Old 26-06-2010, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post

Suggesting that Symbian is the new S40 is crass and idiotic. Especially when you consider what Fujitsu have been doing with it.

People who have suffered the ignominy of repeatingly predicting the downfall of Nokia and repeatedly having their negative crap rammed back down their throat can't handle or see it.

If you're a Nokia shareholder, like me, you are not pleased with how Nokia has flailed about for the past few years, destroying about 75% of their market cap and not getting any of it back over the past year's general market rally. They are now simply a mass market producer, and no longer a market driver. That's the issue. In some respects, they are like GM after Honda became popular in the US. Sure, GM always sold more cars than Honda (and still does), and could point to some technological advances, but they seemed to follow, not lead.

Symbian is the new S40 in that it is the new entry level. Of course, entry level in 2011 is very different from entry level in 2001. What isn't? It's a bit like saying that Windows XP is the new Windows 98. No one is suggesting that it is as limited as Windows 98, only that the latest and greatest of 2001 was now powering the $250 netbook on a coffee table.
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  #69  
Old 26-06-2010, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dohouch View Post
So now we have N8 which is Symbian ^3, then Symbian^4 is coming, a complete ground-up rewrite, but future high-end devices will be Meego.

So to avoid being a Nokia Guinea Pig, won't buy any high-end Nokia for a least 12 months!

Would a Nokia Android device mean the end of civilisation as we know it?
Unfortunately, "wait 'til next year" has been the rallying cry for several years now. In 2007, the message was that while Nokia didn't have a touchscreen phone then, they were working on one for next year, and given how great the N95 was, the S60 Touch OS would be great. In early 2008 (while still developing S60 Touch), Nokia released the N96, a flop, but promised better things when the first Touch devices were released later that year. In December 2008, the 5800XM finally came out (aimed at the middle market), but the hype was about the N97 coming out in 2009. Almost as soon as the N97 was released the apologies began for how underpowered it was, as did the promise that 2010 would be better. Now in 2010, even before the N8 is released, they are again telling high end buyers that 2011 will be "the year" that they really take on iOS, Android (which didn't exist in 2007), and Windows Phone 7.

  #70  
Old 26-06-2010, 04:26 PM
Biggles Biggles is offline
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Armchair experts need to look at what's going on in Japan.
Not really. Sure Symbian is the kernel of MOAP-S but since I don't live in Japan and neither do probably 99% of the readers of AAS, we'll never be buying a Fujitsu Symbian handset.

EDIT - And you do make a point that all Symbian apologists have been trying to make to Nokia, if Fujitsu find Symbian good enough to use as the core of their phones with 1080P recording and 14 megapixel optical zoom and waterproofness etc, then surely it's good enough for Nokia as well. We know it is, but Nokia are totally direction-less.

The problem I have is that I don't want a mid-range Symbian handset, I want a high end one. And an X series isn't going to cut it. And the E series will be running S60 FP2 until the end of time and the C series is low-range stuff. I want an N series.

Now that's not to say I won't actually buy an N series handset running Meego. I might, because Nokia as a value proposition work well. But it's bad news for Symbian.

Last edited by Biggles; 26-06-2010 at 04:29 PM.

  #71  
Old 26-06-2010, 06:03 PM
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The problem I have is that I don't want a mid-range Symbian handset, I want a high end one. And an X series isn't going to cut it. And the E series will be running S60 FP2 until the end of time and the C series is low-range stuff. I want an N series.
.
What has what you want got to do with anything? Most people won't be buying high end, most will be mid and low. Symbian.

Everyone has their own personal needs. I've been waiting for a phone like the X10 mini to come along for years, the pro version will probably now be my phone, I don't care that there is Android 1.6 hidden below the SE customisation, I just want that form factor. I hate the recent trend towards bulky oversized slabs (that started with the iPhone).

And that is where most AAS readers are getting confused, they forget that their needs are a tiny niche and the real mass market will be for phones at the level of iPhone/Desire and below. Meego N series will be pitched above these, X series will be equivalent.

"High end" (I really hate that geeky expression) will be higher end with Meego.

  #72  
Old 26-06-2010, 08:12 PM
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I'm reading your post and kind of doing the same thing.

We've known for a long time that MeeGo is going to the high end. That leaves about 80% of Nokia's smartphone range that will be running Symbian. That's all X and E series. The C Series will largely be S40 and will represent Nokia's entry level range.

The E Series is business oriented and continues to sell well. The X Series is aimed at media phones. There have been some rather silly pronouncements that there is no middle market but the global sales figures completely destroy that argument. Most of Nokia's smartphone sales - more than, say, Apple and Android's combined total sales last year - came from numbered phones which are simply the previous branding convention for the X Series.

So, as we knew, the top end - the N Series - is transitioning to Maemo. In the meantime 80% - or about 55-60 million smartphones a year - will run Symbian.

Sure. Nokia are abandoning Symbian all right.
Nobody is saying, at least I am not, that Nokia are abandoning Symbian. It's just that it won't be on Nokia's best devices.

  #73  
Old 26-06-2010, 10:07 PM
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www.google.com

  #74  
Old 26-06-2010, 11:55 PM
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Nobody is saying, at least I am not, that Nokia are abandoning Symbian. It's just that it won't be on Nokia's best devices.
But it will be on their biggest selling devices.

  #75  
Old 27-06-2010, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post

And that is where most AAS readers are getting confused, they forget that their needs are a tiny niche and the real mass market will be for phones at the level of iPhone/Desire and below. Meego N series will be pitched above these, X series will be equivalent.

"High end" (I really hate that geeky expression) will be higher end with Meego.
But this does create fragmentation. However versatile QT turns out in practice (and let's wait and see before we speak with authority based on technical specs), Nokia will be using separate OSes for separate devices. Clearly there will be things MeeGo does that Symbian doesn't. Otherwise Nokia wouldn't be making the switch at all. Thus this will create confusion for developers and especially consumers.

Apple has one unified OS (iOS) that drives or will drive its mobile devices, from the older 3GS still offered for $99 with subsidy, to the most advanced iPad selling at $829 and everything in between (iPhone 4, iPod Touch, and whatever else Apple expands it to).

Android faces similar fragmentation issues as Symbian because of all the different versions out there, but in practice the compatibility has been pretty good. If Symbian relative to MeeGo operates as smoothly as Android 1.6 relative to 2.2 (from app compatibility and availability) then it might be OK, but it still means another year before Nokia is able to tap whatever additional benefits come from MeeGo.

From a perception perspective, it would make more sense if Nokia took Apple's approach and didn't announce the "next way" until a few weeks before it was ready, and then state that "almost anything written for Symbian^3 will run on MeeGo" if that's indeed the case (and was tested extensively). That way the OS is transparent to the user.
 

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