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  #1  
Old 17-03-2003, 06:38 PM
detlef detlef is offline
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Sony Ericsson - Customer Care Center about the firmware upd.

Hi,

I had a small email discussion with the German Sony Ericsson Customer Care Center about the firmware updates.
For all my PDAs, PCs and even GPS devices I can download the latest firmware update for no free from a support URL.
Only with my Sony Ericsson phone I have to drive to one of those "authorized" Repair Centers to get the firmware update.
Also until today it is impossible for Sony Ericsson to post a list of changes so I could check if the way into the city is worth the walk because they fixed some important bugs or include new features I like to have.
This is IMHO a very strange behavior and not customer friendly at all. The reply of the Sony Ericsson Customer Care was:

"The Repair Centers have direct access to a server in Sweden to get the updates. This is the offical policy of Sony Ericsson and we won't tell you the reason for this. You have to accept this behavior because it will not change in the future."

I think we should not accept this! We should post some mail adresses of Sony Ericsson officials here and on other boards and send them as many mails as we could. Also some articles in the press would help a lot.

Detlef

  #2  
Old 17-03-2003, 06:41 PM
Accela Accela is offline
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Well, if that is the case, it is the problem with customer service over there.
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  #3  
Old 17-03-2003, 06:56 PM
Muzikfreakah Muzikfreakah is offline
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Perhaps their purpose for this is to avoid reckless human error which will only resault to more damage units increasing need for service on their part. There are a lot of factors to consider when flashing your own rom, like power failure in the middle of flashing, which will lead to a dead, unusable system after that failure. The risks of flashing a PC bios would be the same I guess.

So we could actually just leave it to the experts, its free anyway
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  #4  
Old 17-03-2003, 07:44 PM
mrgadget mrgadget is offline
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well i think musicfreak that the least they could do is give you the option to do it yourself not under warranty, or have it flashed there under warranty, i have been updating the roms on my ipaq3975 and never had a problem. I think it is a bad policy and further very discouraging for customers experiencing crashes from SE software and having to go to a retailer to get problem fixed. How much easier is it to present us w/ a rom upgrade online!
when they say warranty void if phone open, they could have such a policy for flashing rom yourself, anyway if you f%$K it up you then could bring it to an SE retailer, that way they wouldn't be so busy w/ every single unit beeing brought in for flashing.
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  #5  
Old 17-03-2003, 07:54 PM
Muzikfreakah Muzikfreakah is offline
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Well for those with expereince, why not indeed, and just a clause that it will void the warranty. In my opnion, and I speak only for myself, Id rather bring i to SE because if any were to make a mistake in flashing it I woudlnt want it to be, Id rather have them fix it for free. I spent a lot on this phone already and Im sure ill be spending more when the accesories arrive But that is just my personal opinion.

If SE would come up with a simple user friendly way to update online without voifing the warranty though like having an autp update software the constantly checks online for updates and notifies you and lets you update it by using the cradle we all have now, I would definitely give it a try
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  #6  
Old 18-03-2003, 03:19 AM
fonzki fonzki is offline
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@Muzik - don't you ever sleep? Nocturnal?

If i happen to go to Cebu again, maybe we can have coffee and chat. Just a thought

  #7  
Old 18-03-2003, 08:18 AM
detlef detlef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzikfreakah
Perhaps their purpose for this is to avoid reckless human error which will only resault to more damage units increasing need for service on their part. There are a lot of factors to consider when flashing your own rom, like power failure in the middle of flashing, which will lead to a dead, unusable system after that failure. The risks of flashing a PC bios would be the same I guess.

So we could actually just leave it to the experts, its free anyway
Why is this such a big problem for the P800 while you can update close to all PDAs (Palm, PSION, CE....) yourself? Why is it a bigger problem to flash the ROM then it is for my Garmin GPS receiver or my Windows PC (including the BIOS)? I don't think the risk is higher to crash the P800 then with any other device - and I don't think the people at the repair center are "experts" - I've been there twice and never had the feeling that I talked to "experts" :silly: .
And don't forget the second critic: where is a list with all fixes and new features for every update? Where can I read what I will get if I walk into the city to get the update from a repair center? I there also the risk of a "human error" behind reading a "what's new" note? :splat:

  #8  
Old 18-03-2003, 08:39 AM
mageous mageous is offline
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Maybe they're afraid that the Sony Ericsson venture wouldn't take off sucessfully and want to minimise on all the cost.

  #9  
Old 18-03-2003, 12:47 PM
Andy_P Andy_P is offline
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Re: Sony Ericsson - Customer Care Center about the firmware

Quote:
Originally Posted by detlef
We should post some mail adresses of Sony Ericsson officials here and on other boards and send them as many mails as we could.
Oh thats really going to help matters isn't it. What a great plan...

We all appreciate that it's a slight inconvenience to go to a service centre. But as the SE person says: "You have to accept this behavior because it will not change in the future."

Nuff said.
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  #10  
Old 18-03-2003, 01:02 PM
detlef detlef is offline
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Re: Sony Ericsson - Customer Care Center about the firmware

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Originally Posted by Andy_P
Oh thats really going to help matters isn't it. What a great plan...
hmm - you have a better idea? Just ignore the problem and pay SE whatever they want for a product with a lot of bugs and a customer service that would be a perfect candidate to get the Oscar "most awful customer service of the year"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_P
We all appreciate that it's a slight inconvenience to go to a service centre. But as the SE person says: "You have to accept this behavior because it will not change in the future."
"slight inconvenience" is not the right term to describe this behavior IMHO. You have no official informations about the bug-fixes/features of any firmware update, you don't even know when a new software release is out. So - do you walk to "your" repair center once a week to say hello to those "experts"? Do you have the time to walk to the SE center for your update during the week and the normal working hours, to wait for some hours to get the new update?
Since you can update all other devices you own by yourself (PDA, PC...) I would see this behavior of SE to be considered as an important difference when someone thinks about buying a P800. If the sales drop - SE will have to react - so a little publicity about this heavy problem could help.
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  #11  
Old 18-03-2003, 01:18 PM
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or just go to the cebit

because on the cebit you also have it in about two minutes !

  #12  
Old 18-03-2003, 01:25 PM
detlef detlef is offline
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Re: or just go to the cebit

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Originally Posted by robbie28II
because on the cebit you also have it in about two minutes !
Ahh - nice hint - only 400km to get the update for me - maybe I'll go there next week - oh, the CeBIT ends this week - no problem: all SE users will be happy to wait for a year to travel to Hannover to get the update so fast.

And - did you get a paper describing all fixed bugs and the new features you got? It would be great if you share it with us...

  #13  
Old 18-03-2003, 03:22 PM
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MemphisX MemphisX is offline
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The reason why se doesn't give the option to upgrade p800 the easy way are more deep than they seem. P800 is not only a pda but also a mobile phone. Every single mobile phone from the very very first has an IMEI number. The updates are done through internet. The IMEI number is sent to se not only to verify the type of the phone in order to download the appropriate firmware (this upgrade method is the same for every sony-ericsson/ericsson mobile phone,not only p800) but also to check if the phone is stolen... Ericsson had made an effort to enable firmware upgrades through any pc with internet connection,and a data cable, but that was some time ago for old phones (the lasts i can recall from my memory were t10&t18.) i don't remember the site but the whole process was done through a web site with javascript. Unfortunately after se was founded, all those plans were abandoned.

  #14  
Old 19-03-2003, 07:57 AM
detlef detlef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisX
The reason why se doesn't give the option to upgrade p800 the easy way are more deep than they seem.
But you try to explain the reason (thanks) - the SE support simply told me that they will not explain the reason to anybody - I should accept the facts, that's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisX
P800 is not only a pda but also a mobile phone.
It's much more a phone then a PDA - the limited software support by SE is the best sign for that fact. Unthinkable for a PDA company. Also: the amount of bugs is more typical for a mobile phone. With - for example - a Palm PDA you always know what OS version is the current, what new features came with the new OS, what bugs have been fixed and you installed the OS yourself....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisX
Every single mobile phone from the very very first has an IMEI number. The updates are done through internet. The IMEI number is sent to se not only to verify the type of the phone in order to download the appropriate firmware (this upgrade method is the same for every sony-ericsson/ericsson mobile phone,not only p800) but also to check if the phone is stolen... Ericsson had made an effort to enable firmware upgrades through any pc with internet connection,and a data cable, but that was some time ago for old phones (the lasts i can recall from my memory were t10&t18.) i don't remember the site but the whole process was done through a web site with javascript. Unfortunately after se was founded, all those plans were abandoned.
SONY is famous for the bad support (try to bring in your DV-camera to a Sony service center, or your Sony laptop, or try to get new drivers for a Sony PC...) and it seems that SE adopted this behavior. I can think of several solutions concerning the IMEI number - but SE must be pushed to change this - without any pressure from the customers: why change things?

  #15  
Old 19-03-2003, 09:52 AM
MrWorf MrWorf is offline
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Name one other phone manufactuer that allows users to flash/upgrade their phone. Can't think of any? Odd

A phone is ALOT more complex than a PDA, gps or anything else. Also alot bigger in terms of software. And allowing people to do the upgrades themself would open up a whole new area of bugs/problems.

I mean, what if a user flashes his phone with a software that wasn't supposed to be in that revision of the hardware? Sure, it may SEEM to work, but in actuallity, the phone is doing some pretty wrong stuff, leading to bad reception, increased battery drain, etc.

There are just too many reasons why a user shouldn't be allowed to upgrade their phone. Sure, it may stink and the SE support is probably not the best (nor the worst) but atleast you'll get a working phone after a upgrade.

But I agree that the response you got from the support was a bit lame, but hey, maybe he/she had that question a zillion times already (or he/she is just a b-tch, we'll never know )

I for one will keep bringing my P800 to a SE service center.

My $0.02 / Henric
 

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care, center, customer, ericsson, firmware, sony, upd

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