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Old 13-07-2010, 03:33 PM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Is PR more important than specs for the smartphone ecosystem?

There's been a lot of noise on the internet this week about issues in the smartphone world. And while the initial reading of all these words is to tell a story, it's actually more about controlling the PR message and protecting a brand (and ergo sales) of software and hardware. There's a lesson in all of this for Nokia and the Symbian Foundation. You've either got it, or you haven't. And right now Symbian and S60 don't have it. Read on...

Read on in the full article.

Old 13-07-2010, 03:50 PM
gadget freak gadget freak is offline
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Could Nokia get away with releasing a device that lost a signal if held properly?

Funny thing is, they have. Since Apples signal problems got 'exposed', it also threw the light on other phones that apparently have a similar issue. Its been discussed on several forums and almost every podcast in the last couple of weeks.

Thats the downside about PR and the press. They can make you look like the second coming, or bite you in the ass. (and they're generally happier to do the latter)

Last edited by UKJeeper; 13-07-2010 at 04:20 PM.

Old 13-07-2010, 04:10 PM
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i agree with this article but we all need to be VERY wary of a US-centric view.

Nokia/Symbian are very much aspired to in much of the world, with Nokia smartphones having over 60% smartphone market share in the combined Europe, Middle East and Africa region and over 80% in Asia-Pacific.

Much of the noise we in the UK, US and Australia hear is from US based or biased media. They REALLY do not understand Nokia or Symbian, or like them, and there is also a significant pride issue in that Apple and Google are loud and proud American companies, while Nokia to them is some 'dodgy foreigner'.

We recently saw huge queues in Indonesia for i think the new Nokia X3. What exactly is so different between that and queues outside Apple stores for iPhone 4? Nothing. Nothing unless we in the UK or US think we're the centre of the mobile universe, which we're not.

Old 13-07-2010, 05:01 PM
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Apple phones has os upgrades for 2 years. Android depending on the phone some got few but some lots.

So from that stand point any phone with symbian that doesn't get major os upgrades is already dead. This is further compounded by the fact symbian announced the end of the road for the current UI and starting over.

Nokia is selling more Symbian phones as the os gets pushed down but that is the problem as its the high end phones gets the buzz.

Old 13-07-2010, 05:34 PM
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Internal conflict

The real problem is that Nokia and Symbian keeps beating themselves up internally.

Why bother pouring resources into Symbian^3 or Symbian^4 when Meego is coming around the corner. Why not just stabilize and simplify S60v3 and get it leaner, especially since memory and resource requirements shot up between FP1 and FP2? Why keep sending these conflicting messages to consumers and developers that make them scratch their heads? It's better to just make the one bet and focus on getting it right instead of trying to make sure two parties aren't stepping on each other. Everyone keeps harping Qt, but where is there one single productivity app built on Qt for Nokia? And one that will work with both platforms? Anything demoed? At all?!?! It all sounds vaporware-ish, like Java everywhere, but Java S60v3 apps won't work on S60v5, and vice versa. The only thing compelling I've seen from Java ME on S60 is Opera Mini.

These are the real reasons Symbian is so hated by the industry now, not because of Apple or Android. No one knows what Symbian can offer now, and every fanboy here is basically harping on accomplishments that were done FOUR YEARS AGO at their height with the N95 & N73 and handsets under OMAP. Symbian has offered nothing compelling ever since, yet flailed around like a headless beast, which truly explains the market share slide. It sounds so much like the dying trying to hold on to the past. Sheesh!

Symbian better hit a homerun coming fall, or else they're pretty much going to go the way of Palm OS, except I doubt there will be a buyer like Access around. Every fanboy in those days defended Palm OS to the hilt with market share, installed base, blah blah until they fell off a cliff. Nokia will still be around for a long while, but it's future is definitely set in Meego.


Old 13-07-2010, 05:46 PM
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If Motorola can do it(or at least be on the right track), so can Nokia- even though they don't have the luxury of having good street cred in the US; where all the opinion-leaders and developers are.

Old 13-07-2010, 07:09 PM
Hih Hih is offline
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Apogolist article again. So boring. All About Anssi strikes again.

Old 13-07-2010, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Hih View Post
Apogolist article again. So boring. All About Anssi strikes again.
Negative post again from someone that can't spell. So boring.

Old 13-07-2010, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gadget freak View Post
Could Nokia get away with releasing a device that lost a signal if held properly?

Funny thing is, they have. Since Apples signal problems got 'exposed', it also threw the light on other phones that apparently have a similar issue. Its been discussed on several forums and almost every podcast in the last couple of weeks.

But almost every other phone maker has reasonably good signal reception qualities to start with. iPhone can't afford to lose bars because its radio is poort.

Old 13-07-2010, 08:34 PM
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There's a reason why bloggers in the US are very biased against Nokia and Symbian. Nokia just doesn't give a damn about marketing over here and cares even less about tailoring their products to an American audience. I'm not saying they should put the US first and so on, I just don't really see why an average American (non-techies who don't read cell-phone OS blogs) would want a high end Nokia phone over an iPhone or Android. Those phones are tailored to the market. Hell, I'm really only gonna be buying the N8 for the camera. I don't expect the Ovi store to ever be worth a damn or for there to ever be an abundance of apps for it.

I love Nokia products and I've had multiple Nokia phones, but I'm starting to get a little jealous of my friends with Android's and iPhones. It'd be different if I lived in Europe or India....but I don't. If you're going to release a product in a certain territory, don't treat them like 2nd class citizens.

Old 13-07-2010, 10:22 PM
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Just read on Daily Mobile that a Poll was made to see how many people would the next phone the bought would be a Nokia one an only 34% said yes,as people switching to iPhone or a Anroid phone,Nokia have invested loads into Symbian but the Software as been Very slow to Progress,Nokia have really now get themselves organised as they will be losing the European market to Samsung,as they use Bada an Anroid software on there mobiles,an the looks of there mobiles attract more than Plastic Nokia,O.k the Refurbished material Nokia use might be cost saving but,Plastic stratches an marks more easily,Nokia N8 a metal casing that looks Top Class but then the C6 a Plastic body that makes the phone look cheap,please produce more attcractive phones in Metal or you will lose more customers Nokia an its your Fault

Old 13-07-2010, 10:50 PM
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"only 34% said yes"? you mean that in the poll Nokia would have 34% of marketshare? or was the poll only addressed to current Nokia users?

In any case, companies have priorities in marketing products, that's perfectly normal. Also Apple releases products in the US first.
Further, I don't think that Docomo will be dead in 2 years because I cannot buy their phones in Europe...

Old 13-07-2010, 11:26 PM
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Some of the comments here from Nokia apologists are comical.

May I present to you a few links?

Let's start with a Gartner analyst:

Go ahead and tell this respected analyst he's a "hater".

Next, let me remind you of Rick Cadden from, I don't think I need to tell you who this die-hard Nokia fan is:

Go and tell Ricky and many of the people that agree with him that they are "haters".

Now, let me direct you towards Trentonn Smith, a long time Nokia supporter and fanatic:

Go and tell Trent that he is a "moron".

Lastly, I give you Russell Beattie, a Nokia employee. This man has more smarts than all of us put together. Please follow him on Twitter and make sure to let him know that S60/Symbian is great.

C'mon Symbian fans, the all 7 of you... go ahead and tell these respected individuals that they are "haters", go argue with them. Let's see how you do.
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Old 13-07-2010, 11:55 PM
PDAMad PDAMad is offline
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To me Nokia's downfall is endemic in their historic attitude to OS upgrades on all their smartphones. E.g.
Many Windows Mobile phones got upgrades from 6.0 to 6.1 or 6.5
Most recent Android phones got upgrades for 1.x to 2.x (and some hinted for 3.0)
Most recent Blackberry phones got upgrades from 4.0 to 5.x (and RIM hinting at 6.0)
All these updates gave major improvements in features and functionality.

Compare this to Nokia who have NEVER (AFAIK) upgraded any phone beyond its original FeaturePack level - e.g. if you buy a Nokia phone on S60 FP1, you'll be stuck with that until you throw it away. Even the N900, Nokia's most expensive phone, was supplied with an already obsolescent OS, with the move to "Meego" unsupported by Nokia.

No wonder then, that with overpriced hardware, a botched and dead OS, no "wow" factor to attract future investment, and a "we've got your money, now get stuffed" attitude to device future-proofing and upgradability, most people simply see Symbian as irrelevant.

Last edited by PDAMad; 13-07-2010 at 11:59 PM.

Old 14-07-2010, 12:12 AM
Jimmy1 Jimmy1 is offline
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Nokia's problems are actually the result of their past success, and it's also similar to the problem that Microsoft also now faces: they're both so big, bloated and far flung with so many divisions and layers of management and bureaucracies, kind of like mini governments, that they're slow to act quickly to market forces.

Both companies are solidly in re-active mode, which has hurt them in industries that requires nimble companies and quick decision making. Just look at Google; they're issuing a new, updated, more feature packed version of Android virtually every 4-6 months. Meego and Symbian should be so lucky to get updated that quickly.

Also, as Ewan alludes, perception is key and Nokia (and Microsoft) are just simply, currently, uncool. And when you're dropping $300-$500 on a new gadget, cool-ness matters. The last time Nokia was really cool, they made the Matrix phone that Keanu used in the movie of the same name.


ecosystem, important, smartphone, specs

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