All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #1  
Old 18-08-2009, 03:26 PM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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An iPhone 3GS user trials the Nokia N86 8MP

For a few weeks in August, I lent James Burland, an experienced Nseries user, photographic wizard and also a huge Apple iPhone 3GS fan, my Nokia N86 8MP, asking him to really push its unique selling point - the camera. Here's his report. Despite a few concerns and a general scepticism about the keypad form factor in 2009, James proclaims the N86 8MP to be "the best all round photo and video capture smartphone currently available".

Read on in the full article.

  #2  
Old 18-08-2009, 06:02 PM
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This was a pretty good article. Factual and without the usual AAS Symbian slant (still no mention of the Goldman Sachs article about hard times for Nokia) or bias. As a user of both the N86 and the iPhone 3GS, I can agree with this article completely. The N86 is a great phone that Nokia does not seem to be promoting very hard. It is miles away more reliable and usable than the N97 (the bug machine), and with a few more software upgrades the N86 could easily replace the N82 as the best camera phone on the market. The iPhone has come a long way since version one and it will continue to get better despite Apple and their sometimes stupid ways. I am constantly torn which phone to use on a daily basis. Either phone is a great buy.

  #3  
Old 18-08-2009, 07:24 PM
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Good comparising of qualities . What about the price/quality relation ?

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  #4  
Old 18-08-2009, 07:44 PM
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I would say the price to performance is about equal. The N86 is going for about 480 in some places with the iPhone more or less the same (unlocked). So you take your chances and see what you get. I like both phones. If I did not have either, I would be happy with either minus the other. Like I said, I am happy and conflicted on some days when I do not know which to choose because either way, I will take a great phone with me. Hopefully Nokia will learn from this (not) and make their next flagship phone (N97 is not even close) along the lines of the N86 in terms of quality and function.

  #5  
Old 18-08-2009, 07:50 PM
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N86

Nokia have not seem to be bothered pushing the sales up of the n86 since its been released as i think they get embarrased using the n85 body an just improving the camera ,the cheap way out,they did not seem interested in the 8 or 12 mega-pixel camera race,but thats a big mistake nokia as made,the n86 buttons an speakers are really odd,the buttons on the front are to small an that deters people getting the n86,then the biggest mistake the speakers on just one side,so no stereo sound when held in your hand,why couldn"t nokia have put 3 speakers on the n86 so in your hand you get the sound like the n95 8gb,then when using the stand up clip on the bench or stand the other gets turned off,so hope in stugarrat we see something better from nokia

  #6  
Old 18-08-2009, 07:54 PM
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Unregistered - I'm glad you enjoyed the article.

You are more than welcome to get in touch direct with me and give more specific feedback than the 'usual general bias'. Or indeed comment directly here.

I would point out that this site is called All About Symbian so you will find Symbian focused information here, though maybe that's not what you mean by slant?

I imagine the reason the N86 has not be given a major push is that it is not considered a big seller potential. There's a big difference between technical excellence (of most interest to mobile geeks) and sales performance (generally much more price sensitive).

For those who are wondering, like I did, what the Goldman Sachs article referred to in the comment above is I think the commenter is referring to recent guidance that saw Goldman Sachs change its opinion on Nokia shares from a conviction buy to neutral (see here and here.

The opinion is primarily based on concerns around Nokia's high end portfolio, together with the effect of high end performance for brand image in the mid tier. It is worth observing that the Goldman note is a short term view. This note will get attention because Goldman Sachs is obviously a big name in investment banking.

This argument is not new and we've said repeatedly that Nokia is not performing well at the high end, especially if you draw a comparison to Apple.

Personally I think there too much focus on the high end (although this is where the profits are, which is of interest to short term and therefore share price, but is not directly linked to strategic strength), under estimates the mid tier space with regards to smartphones and ignores that none of Nokia's competitors has the same scope nor scale / reach in its service strategy (I guess the issue is that, in the short term, it will not realise significant profit from this).

Generally we don't post that often on analyst opinion stuff. Analysts do have a magic crystal ball - generally they have only a little more information (it at all) than that which is available publicly (which is why you sometimes get some very wacky predictions). Like any argument / opinion it is worth listening to anyone, but you have to make your own judgments on its validity.

I would also note that company stock performance does not always directly correlate with overall company performance (especially over longer periods).

Still I guess the downgrade to neutral makes a change from the Nokia is doomed story line!
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Old 18-08-2009, 08:14 PM
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Smile More $ €

I checked the prices in my country , for an unlocked ( not operater depending ) devices .
Results :
Nokia N86 : €384 - €490
http://tweakers.mobi/pricewatch/233295
Apple iPhone 3GS : € 804 - €1089
http://tweakers.mobi/pricewatch/241517

Regards jApi NL

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Old 18-08-2009, 08:19 PM
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Rafe, nice to see you getting a bit angry/frustrated - and rightly so.

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Old 18-08-2009, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viipottaja View Post
Rafe, nice to see you getting a bit angry/frustrated - and rightly so.
Heh. Maybe I should get out the wrong side of bed more often.
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Old 18-08-2009, 09:59 PM
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Smile Some More $ €

It seems this is my side out of the bed today . Maybe iPhones are dumped on the market , to Operators costs :
http://us.mobile.reuters.com/m/FullA...57G3MX20090817
Is there a winner ?

Regards jApi NL

  #11  
Old 18-08-2009, 10:54 PM
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What?

"There's is no doubt in my mind that the N86 is the best all round photo and video capture smartphone currently available"

Do you know that mobile-review, phonearena and gsmarena are using the Omnia HD as a benchmark when it comes to camera phones?

  #12  
Old 19-08-2009, 01:25 AM
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Rafe,

I do not believe its your role to be commenting on broker research (be it Goldman or Merrill or whoever) as brokers are concerned about share price action and this has little relationship with the focus here, which really is Symbian (be it Nokia / Samsung /Sony or whoever).

I really think you should be telling unregistered that he's going to the wrong forum if he's looking for this.

On another note, I was looking at the quarterly smartphone sales numbers, and Nokia lost significant market share, but actual sales only feld 2% Y-o-Y. This means the Smartphone market has increased while Nokia has held on, but had not increased sales. Its completely not a surprise, 40% of smartphone sales were in touch and given in Q2, the only touch device available for Nokia / Symbian was 5800, and 2 weeks of N97 sales.

  #13  
Old 19-08-2009, 01:58 AM
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There are interesting regional differences to those numbers though.

  #14  
Old 19-08-2009, 02:29 AM
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Cool So wait...

"I found the camera controls tricky." Now correct me if I can't read, but didn't the article state that this individual was an experienced Nseries user? And as such, they would surely know that the camera control options haven't been changed for the last 3+ years, and he would be familiar with them by now. That is what he was talking about, right?

"I can't understand why I was not able to start, stop and pause video capture with the dual-slider buttons." Come on. I think that iPhone really killed some brain cells. There's no record symbol anywhere on any of those media buttons, not to mention the fact that they're called media buttons, not video recording buttons. You use them to play medua, not to record videos with them. The camera shutter button is what you use to record/capture everything. I hate repeating myself but I thought this guy was an experienced Nseries user?? He talks about the N95 like he owned one, and if he did he would know that even that didn't make use of the media buttons for video recording. No devices have. Why would Nokia start now all of a sudden, and then not mark it with any symbols?

Maybe its just me, maybe I've read way too many Apple fanboy comments on Nokia articles where they say things, just to say something bad about Nokia, but I get the same feeling here. I was really starting to think maybe this guy would dump his iPhone for the N86. I guess certain things about it just don't make enough sense and isn't simple enough to use.

All that aside, I strongly agree with him that this should have been the N96, but with a 2.8" display, and more memory. It would most definitely have been a winner. I really wanted to get this phone, especially since I loved my N95 and saw this as the closest thing to a perfect upgrade I was going to get, but I couldn't resist the N97. Maybe I'll get the best of all three worlds eventually. 3.5"+ touchscreen, QWERTY, and an 8MP+ camera.
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  #15  
Old 19-08-2009, 07:33 AM
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Dear Unregistered,

"I found the camera controls tricky."
Sorry, I thought that the sentence that followed explained my reasoning quite clearly. In this instance I was referring to the mechanical action of the shutter button, I was not referring to the "Camera control options". Perhaps I should have made this clearer.

"I can't understand why I was not able to start, stop and pause video capture with the dual-slider buttons."
I wasn't suggesting for one minute that the printed symbols on the dual-slider buttons suggested to me that I should be able to perform such actions, rather I was saying that this really ought to be the case seeing as how I could zoom in and out with them.

"Maybe its just me, maybe I've read way too many Apple fanboy comments on Nokia articles where they say things, just to say something bad about Nokia, but I get the same feeling here."
I'm sorry that you get that feeling, it was certainly not my intention. I fully understand that my daily smartphone usage may require a different kind of device than yours, but as was made clear right from the outset, this was my personal opinion. Just because I have a different opinion from someone else, it doesn't make me a fanboy, it just means I have a different opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

"I was really starting to think maybe this guy would dump his iPhone for the N86. I guess certain things about it just don't make enough sense and isn't simple enough to use."
"This guy" (my name was at the bottom of the article!) will not be dumping his iPhone for the N86 because what I really need is a pocket computer rather than a smart phone, and right now Nokia don't make one of those.

That's not to say that the N86 isn't tempting, it certainly is, and I'll be on the look out for one to replace my ageing N95.

Kind regards,
James
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