All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

  #76  
Old 03-11-2009, 07:03 PM
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angiepea angiepea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanziBarn View Post
Update successful.

Restored calendar and contacts, now putting music, photos and video back onto Mass.

Then comes the long task of doing all the settings, apps, and folder structure.

Thanks to everyone who has helped me on the forum!

let us know what you think
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  #77  
Old 03-11-2009, 07:10 PM
dez_borders dez_borders is offline
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Originally Posted by dog-man View Post
I take it that there is no way to debrand without Nokia being able to find out by checking the log file, no matter what program I use to debrand.

dog-man
You can use the Phoenix Service Software 2009 app (with the correct Firmware Package - if you can find it). Then you will flash the phone completely offline, so Nokia don't know you changed the product code.

However, after de-branding offline with Phoenix, you should NEVER use NSU again with that handset, as it would upload the product code, FW version and variant to Nokia's servers - once again invalidating the warranty.

By the way, it is possible to 'download firmware image' using Phoenix, but I would advise you try this when the handset is NOT connected, as NSU is allegedly just a very simplified version of Phoenix - therefore Phoenix may also upload handset flash logs to Nokia's server.

One MAJOR problem with de-branding is even if you change the producrt code back ater flashing, the service engineers can still read the codes out of the handset if you ever need to make a warranty repair. So even offline de-branding doesn't guarantee a valid warranty.

I now own a generic UK factory un-branded N97, so I doubt I will want to risk the warranty again by de-branding (I have already lost warranties on an N95 and N82 in the last 2 years!)
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Last edited by dez_borders; 03-11-2009 at 07:13 PM.

  #78  
Old 03-11-2009, 07:15 PM
dog-man dog-man is offline
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Hmm, I think I will give it till Saturday and hope that the Vodafone version for my phone is released before then.




dog-man

  #79  
Old 03-11-2009, 10:18 PM
Olly Olly is offline
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Got mine sorted, sadly my mate's N97 wouldn't complete update, NSU kept saying USB disconnected and give some instructions blah blah, NSU locks up with 15 mins to go! utter sht
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Unbranded Nokia N97 Black UK RM505 (0585162) V21.0.045.209.07 Firmware

  #80  
Old 03-11-2009, 11:55 PM
colin37400 colin37400 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dez_borders View Post
You can use the Phoenix Service Software 2009 app (with the correct Firmware Package - if you can find it). Then you will flash the phone completely offline, so Nokia don't know you changed the product code.

However, after de-branding offline with Phoenix, you should NEVER use NSU again with that handset, as it would upload the product code, FW version and variant to Nokia's servers - once again invalidating the warranty.

By the way, it is possible to 'download firmware image' using Phoenix, but I would advise you try this when the handset is NOT connected, as NSU is allegedly just a very simplified version of Phoenix - therefore Phoenix may also upload handset flash logs to Nokia's server.

One MAJOR problem with de-branding is even if you change the producrt code back ater flashing, the service engineers can still read the codes out of the handset if you ever need to make a warranty repair. So even offline de-branding doesn't guarantee a valid warranty.

I now own a generic UK factory un-branded N97, so I doubt I will want to risk the warranty again by de-branding (I have already lost warranties on an N95 and N82 in the last 2 years!)
I recently debranded my N97 offline by the JAF method described here: http://n97debranding.blogspot.com/

If I were to change the product code back to what it was (again by that same method) is it still possible that Nokia would know I'd meddled, if I had to take it in for repair?

I'm wondering because I think I have the GPS issue (and a bit of lens scratching too...) and am considering taking it in for them to have a look at.

(Not that they could really legitimately claim that changing the firmware could be the cause of faulty GPS hardware)

  #81  
Old 04-11-2009, 07:44 PM
volvo940se volvo940se is offline
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All this void warrenty talk to me seems a load of tripe. Yes if you change the product code and then suffer issues with the software of the phone then that is the downfall, and you only have yourself to blame for the costs incured, but if there is a hardware issue well known about and documented on the internet, then how can a product change possibly have an effect on the faulty design of the keylock slider or the camera slider, or for that matter the GPS antena. I would take this up in the courts, as Nokia have already admitted that there is an issue, and if they take such a long time to rectifiy the software issues then only release certain product code versions at different times, then I would say there is a very strong case for them to have defaulted on the terms of sale as the product is not fit for the purpose it was designed for.

My sons N97 had the keylock slider come off and took it into the local Nokia repair center yesterday. They told him that they had just got all the parts in for the repairs as there are a couple of warrenty items. He came away after 40 mins with the complete B cover replaced to fix the GPS issue and camera issue ( neither of which he mentioned to the repair guy ) and the keylock slider.

  #82  
Old 04-11-2009, 07:59 PM
dez_borders dez_borders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin37400 View Post
I recently debranded my N97 offline by the JAF method described here: http://n97debranding.blogspot.com/

If I were to change the product code back to what it was (again by that same method) is it still possible that Nokia would know I'd meddled, if I had to take it in for repair?

I'm wondering because I think I have the GPS issue (and a bit of lens scratching too...) and am considering taking it in for them to have a look at.

(Not that they could really legitimately claim that changing the firmware could be the cause of faulty GPS hardware)
IF you reset the product-code to the original, then re-flashed the latest firmware & matching variant (if it's available for your product code), and did all of this without accessing Nokia's servers,
then MAYBE your meddling would be undetectable. This of course assumes that the handset doesn't keep a local log file of flashes, stored in an area only Nokia engineers can access!
(cue Twilight Zone theme tune...). lol

Does the above make you more or less happy about your warranty status?
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  #83  
Old 04-11-2009, 08:18 PM
dez_borders dez_borders is offline
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Originally Posted by volvo940se View Post
All this void warrenty talk to me seems a load of tripe. Yes if you change the product code and then suffer issues with the software of the phone then that is the downfall, and you only have yourself to blame for the costs incured, but if there is a hardware issue ... I would take this up in the courts,.
The problem is that NOBODY seems to have taken Nokia to court over the warranty void situation with de-branding. I am an average end-user who can't afford to take on a multi-national company in a court of law. You could threaten Nokia with court action in the hope they will honour your warranty for a quiet life, but if you do go to court - and lose - you could lose your house, car (and spouse!) when costs are awarded against you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by volvo940se View Post
My sons N97 had the keylock slider come off and took it into the local Nokia repair center yesterday. ... He came away after 40 mins with the complete B cover replaced to fix the GPS issue and camera issue ( neither of which he mentioned to the repair guy ) and the keylock slider.
And of course the above scenario clearly outlines the risk we all take by de-branding...

As long as the Nokia engineer you are (un)lucky enough to deal with doesn't look too closely at the firmware version, variant & product code on your handset, and doesn't check the Nokia NSU server logs, and can fairly easily replace an obviously faulty hardware part, then your warranty is honoured. This is more because nobody bothered to check your warranty status and nothing to do with the legal position regarding it.

Here follows a cautionary tale, from personal experience regarding re-setting the product-code before handing in for repair to Nokia...

About 18 months ago the screen on my N95 started flashing off and on at regular intervals, so I reset the product code to its original value then sent the handset off to Nokia UK repair centre. One week later, the handset came back, and would only display the Nokia power-up logo for 5 seconds (still flashing screen), then power off. What had happened is that Nokia engineers tend to re-flash the firmware and hard-reset the device to rule-out sotware faults in the first instance - unfortunately, I was on V20 FW de-branded and the latest FW for the original product code was at a lower version. It's well known than attempting to downgrade firmware on the N series usually results in a bricked handset. Anyway, I sent the handset back for 2nd repair, and a week later it came back with a letter saying 'out of warranty conditions - unauthorised software version'. When I complained to Nokia, the supervisor emailed me a copy of the NSU logs from their server, detailing dates, times, IP addresses, product-code(s) and firmware versions relating to my IMEI. I sold the handset on eBay as faulty/spares and got about 50% of it's true value. A similar thing happened with an N82 about 10 months later. I consider my fingers well and truly burned! My latest handset was purchased sim-free and factory unbranded.

If you ever have your warrany declared void, and choose to take Nokia to court, please keep us posted as to your progress... you can be the test-case.
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Last edited by dez_borders; 04-11-2009 at 08:25 PM.

  #84  
Old 04-11-2009, 09:19 PM
volvo940se volvo940se is offline
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Simply saying, that what ever happens to the software has no effect on the hardware at all. If Nokia want to get funny over a product change to get the firmware that is meant to fix many of the issues that the handset has to start with, then maybe a claim through the small claims is what will be needed to get them to for once admit the issues surrounding the device once and for all. The amount of N97 users that are unhappy with the product and think it is too much trouble to complain or make a claim against Nokia and just use something different until a firmware that works comes out must be vast. If everyone of them went and made a small claim against Nokia then Nokia would be soo tied up in legal claims, they would be forced into make it public that they had made a lemon. I for one am tied into a 18 month contract with a phone that is not fit for the job it is meant for. I have gone back to my trusty SE C905 and wish I had waited for the Satio to be released before upgrading. I have more hardware issues with this one N97 than I have had with 20 SE products, and as for software issues, well lets just say it currently will be a long time in hell before this pile of junk ever sees the light of day again. A well learnt leasson has be learnt by myself, KEEP CLEAR OF ANY NOKIA PRODUCT.

Have debranded every SE phone that ever needed it and never once had a warrenty claim rejected by SE due to that, in fact I have never had a warrenty issue rejected by SE nor never had an issue fixed by them either, There are many people modifying their SE| software and producing some really good UI's and rather than making issues with this, SE are looking at them and taking note, maybe Nokia are the leading manufacture but with products like the N(& for how much longer. If it was not for my complete and utter hate of anything windows based I would have an HTC phone tomorrow, and not a fan of android either, so I now have a very expensive door stop which the more I look at it the more ugly it gets as well.

  #85  
Old 05-11-2009, 01:20 AM
colin37400 colin37400 is offline
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Hmm. Well, I don't think Nokia have any reasonable defence for refusing to honour warranties against hardware defects, simply because someone has chosen to change the software (mainly due to Nokia's failure to provide adequate software in the first place). This of course depends on you being able to prove that the defects you are reporting are hardware defects. Which is pretty straightforward as far as the camera scratching is concerned but not necessarily the GPS (these being the two things I'm considering taking mine in to get looked at). Is there any formal acknowledgement from Nokia at the moment that there is a problem with the GPS?

Volvo940se, I'm interested to hear that your son took his in and got it fixed on the spot. Was this in the UK? I might try doing this myself.

As far as flashing back to the original product code is concerned...dez_borders I think that in the tale you tell, where they flashed it unknowingly back to an earlier version, I would accept that Nokia did no wrong because how were they to know you changed it. This tends to make me think, if I do send mine for repair, maybe not bother changing the code back and just take my chances on them noticing / caring about it.

  #86  
Old 05-11-2009, 10:10 AM
dez_borders dez_borders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volvo940se View Post
Simply saying, that what ever happens to the software has no effect on the hardware at all. If Nokia want to get funny over a product change to get the firmware that is meant to fix many of the issues that the handset has to start with, then maybe a claim through the small claims is what will be needed
Unfortunately, the terms of warranty condition are clearly broken by changing product code and de-branding.
Legally I think a judge would have bo choice but to find in favour of Nokia, despite anyhardware fault needing repaired not being directly caused by the firmware change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volvo940se View Post
Have debranded every SE phone that ever needed it and never once had a warrenty claim rejected by SE due to that, in fact I have never had a warrenty issue rejected by SE nor never had an issue fixed by them either
As stated previously, you are VERY lucky. Perhaps my sending the devices to the UK repair centre instead of taking them to a local repair shop is part of my problem - as the UK repair centre seems to check the product code & firmware version more often? Unfortunately, it's an 80 mile round trip to the nearest NCC for me, so the Free postal service always seemed more practical.

Also, if your contract is still active, taking/sending the handset to your Network-provider is also preferable as AAS members report that the networks never seem to look too closely at firmware versions and tend to replace rather than repair handsets in the warranty period. (Unfortunately, I changed my contract after 1 year, so the network would not talk to me about the faulty N95 and pointed me in the direction of Nokia).

In any event I agree its (morally) totally unfair of Nokia to invalidate a warranty because of de-branding, but legally, they are in the right and could simply send a copy of the warrantty T&C plus NSU logs for your device to any judge and you would have lost the case (in my view).

Everyone has the right to de-brand or not de-brand, but I always think AAS members should clearly state/discuss the risks as well as the benefits of de-branding for the benefits of new members who might not know there IS a risk.
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Last edited by dez_borders; 05-11-2009 at 10:15 AM.

  #87  
Old 05-11-2009, 10:19 AM
dez_borders dez_borders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin37400 View Post
Hmm. Well, I don't think Nokia have any reasonable defence for refusing to honour warranties against hardware defects, simply because someone has chosen to change the software (mainly due to Nokia's failure to provide adequate software in the first place).
I am not a legal expert, but I believe the whole point of the (long, small print) T&C that comes with any consumer product is that if you (the consumer) fail to comply with anything stated in the T&C then the manufacturer does have the right to invalidate the warranty. I think de-branding falls under (unauthorised) modifications as you have to use a 3rd party product (NSS) to perform the modification.

I don't work for Nokia, and I am not defending their position - indeed I am out of pocket (twice) due to de-branding.
I just want to warn others AAS members what may happen if they de-brand and later need a warranty repair.
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Last edited by dez_borders; 05-11-2009 at 10:22 AM.
 

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