All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

  #61  
Old 30-07-2003, 01:20 AM
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It was funny Rafe, really.

As I said I'm not against controling your site for legal, commercial or personal reasons. It IS your site.

Raven, again I don't mean to antagonize you but allthough I do see a difference between software and the pictures the difference is on the product, not on the action. Therefore we or you shouldn't use legality as a reason because the same laws apply in both cases. SE did not intend to publish those pictures, they where not given a choice and the extend of the damage done cannot be judged by us and is really irrelevant to the fact; And damage CAN be done by the release of pictures such as this; that's why Samsung has banned the use of camera phones by their employees. If I need to tell you the implications of industrial Spionage then I guess I'm wasting my time writing more than two lines.

I would be very happy if you just said, We decided not to have this at AAS, Period.

So I do have a point and you really have to go far off not to see it. It is not up to you to decide where and when a law applyes depending on your views and preferences. Movie makers and musicians as well as SE have the same care and love for their products as any developer has for his or her software, and deserve the same respect and to be protected by the same laws.

It IS completely up to AAS however to decide when and where or how they want to draw their own line and I have no beef with that. You are right to delete the link, but let's call it as it is.

This is not ment as an attack or insult to either AAS or Raven or any other moderator, I'm just making myself clear.
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  #62  
Old 30-07-2003, 03:07 AM
Tsogo Tsogo is offline
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I really love my P800 + this forum

  #63  
Old 30-07-2003, 04:47 AM
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Me:

That law that you said should apply to AAS is the copyright law. This law applies to software like Camcoder and intellectual property like MP4s of Friends. It also applies to intellectual property like photographs, but not the objects of the photographs.

I would like to share the views I posted in My Symbian:

SBC wrote:
Who's complaining about keeping the pictures up? I am just pointing out how hard it is to walk the thin line between legal and illegal. Something a lot of people have trouble understanding. Things are not black and white..

No reason to complain for SE, since the pictures are out already. Same thing goes for the Camcoder. I don't think anyone has gotten an official complain from the developer?

A picture of non-published hardware, a piece of non-published software.. Is the difference really so huge? People will judge both on pre-production units, which could hurt both parties. And give the competitors a chance to cath up, if needed be. And, as I pointed out before, if there is nothing innovative about the design of the P900, then why are everyone hooked on it already?

my reply:

To an extent that is true. I'm sure everyone's aware that all photographs can be declared copyright, and publication of photographs without the owner's consent is grounds for the owner to take legal action. The oxymoronic angle in the law here is that the owner of the photograph owns the copyright, but not the object of the photo. So if I say took a candid nude photo of Angelina Jolie, I own the copyright and not Jolie, so I am free to use the photo anyway I want.

That inconsistency in the law defeats the purpose of protection, IMHO, and what is being done here, ie. leakage photos is ethically wrong, but legally nothing wrong. Unless, of course, these photos were posted against the photographer's consent, which I very much doubt.
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  #64  
Old 30-07-2003, 04:56 AM
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With the gaining popularity of stealth photographic gadgets like phones, privacy and the unresolved copyright issues with photographs will no doubt come under question and debate again. Until such time the copyright law is amended, privacy continues to go unprotected.

AAS so far has
a) blocked out links to unauthorised software
b) but allowed links to MP4s of Friends
c) and allowed photos of P900

It has been consistent with the law in a) and c), but not b).

b) would probably come under question only if the issue of industrial espionage is raised. But the perpetrator of the crime would be the photographer, not the publisher.
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  #65  
Old 30-07-2003, 09:04 AM
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Fine line, but well put, incidentally if you do have a picture of Angelina naked PLEASE DO post it somewhere

Also, if a specific Industry has a posting in their building saying something to the extent of no pictures or video permitted, as most major industries have, then the line get's even more fine. As you said, nobody has complained so...who cares?
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  #66  
Old 30-07-2003, 10:18 AM
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Brick

You stated that " So if I say took a candid nude photo of Angelina Jolie, I own the copyright and not Jolie, so I am free to use the photo anyway I want. "

This is not strictly true. A crowd shot requires no permission to publish, whilst an individual shot does. A crowd is defined as three people, so if I see Angelina in the nude and get two friends to run behind her I can publish, but a picture of her on her own requires permission. Now, most publications will ignore this, publish and then when the lawsuit is slapped retract it and issue an apology on some minor page in their article. So long lensed shots of Angelina on holiday will not have her permission, but I bet you there will be an apology and a few K of compensation bunged her way.

As you said though, there is a huge difference between a picture of something and that object itself. if people were saying "get your P810s here" I'd expect Rafe & co to be banning that person, but if someone says "here's a piccy, it's mine and I give you permission to publish" then that's ok.

Same goes for software - if someone says "here's a screen shot of working software" then publish, if someone says "here's the software", then don't.

  #67  
Old 30-07-2003, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Banning is okay, erasing links is okay too, even searching or reviewing PM is allright and you can always give your personal Email if you don't want an administrator reading your PM, after all if you choose to use AAS you have to accept the rules.

However, parenting, being condescending, educating and not understanding why we all want the link when I'm a 100% certain that all administrators have installed this Illegal stolen piece of software and probably given it to a couple of friends is not right. This is a Forum and we're all human so let's lighten up a little.

By the way, give yourselves a warning or two if you have installed this software and ease up a little with the good teacher act.

No warning should be given for having a signature you dislike. Many, even administrators, have signatures that are provocative and the "I can't read rules signature is actually funny"

Technically posts such as p810/900 should also be banned since the photos and the info have not been released by SE and have been made without consent. The early release of design and specs could actually hurt the developers...so as long as there are double standarts here we should at least keep a sense of humour and lay down our guns.
ME. YOU ARE THE MAN ! ok now where is my app ? :smilecolros:

  #68  
Old 30-07-2003, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal
... A crowd is defined as three people, so if I see Angelina in the nude and get two friends to run behind her I can publish, but a picture of her on her own requires permission. ...
...I think that's a kid on the sand behind her. Hmm. And yup, that's Billy Bob Thorton in the background. Ok, I think I can publish this piccy.

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  #69  
Old 30-07-2003, 11:02 AM
Jonomac Jonomac is offline
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Another quick response for Raven that I realised last night (and sorry for bringing the MP4 question to the fore).

Episodes of Friends etc are broadcast for public consumption and are available to anyone who wants them (provided you watch the advertsing that pays for the public broadcast, ha!). Does this therefore mean that once the episodes have been broadcast in your particular country they are now in the public domain and therefore not covered by any copyright laws? ie if you video an episode of Friends and lend it to a friend (no pun intended!) are you breaking the law? Or for that matter lending a good book to someone else to read.....

Ahhh the vagaries of international copyright law!!!

This is an interesting topic methinks!
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  #70  
Old 30-07-2003, 11:21 AM
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Erm, no.

Broadcasting is not "in the public domain". The broadcaster has to pay in order to broadcast it and you'll see that there are all kinds of copyright notices at the end of each show telling you so. Technically, even video-taping a program or film off the telly is illegal!

However, in the UK (don't know about elsewhere) you are allowed to reproduce small amounts of a copyrighted material as long as you (a)acknowledge that that is what you are doing (b) credit the copyright holder and (c) don't modify the content of the material.

So, as long as changing the resolution and frame rate doesn't count as altering the content (doubt it), small clips of a friends episode should be okay (I think!). Distributing the whole thing isn't.
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  #71  
Old 30-07-2003, 12:51 PM
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<Mod Hat On>

Copyright law in the UK (where AAS is hosted) will not allow the reproduciton of entire episodes of TV shows, so I'm of the opinion tha a link to an MP4 of an enire TV episode could be considered breaking copyright.

Small snippets are allowed for legitamte purposes. I don't think carrying them around on your phoen would count, but it is a grey area. Generally short clips should be okay, anything over 20-30 seconds is pushing the definition of fair use in quoting.

Pictures of devices, etc, are not covered by copyright, but a bit of common sense should apply, and usually does when we decide to post news. You should also note SE have our direct mobile numbers (at least they have Rafe and mine!) so if anything they were unhappy about was here, I'm sure they'd be in touch.

As to leaked private betas... we won't allow that, although we will try to contact the author first if it is unclear (as it was in Camcorder land.

Bottom line is you care argue semantics and thin edges of the wedge. It's Rafe's site. If you don;t like it, go and set up your own. Ask nicely and we might even tell you what software and scripts we use to keep AAS running and financially viable.
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  #72  
Old 30-07-2003, 01:59 PM
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My only thought is "Why are smartphone people so tight that they won't fork out for an app when they paid over £300 for the device?" There's loads of threads posted to the P800 forum and series 60 forums about wanting warez, if you can't be bothered to spend money for an app costing <£20 why buy an expensive phone instead of a cheap £50 one?
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  #73  
Old 30-07-2003, 02:01 PM
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And speaking of bottom lines, where are thos pictures of Angelina?
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  #74  
Old 30-07-2003, 02:15 PM
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As a summary:

1) Removed link to cam corder Beta software: Everyone seems to be OK with that now, understanding our decision -or at least respecting it. The link will remain removed.

2) Leaked "P810" pictures: They are going to stay up unless we get word from SE to take them down.

3) MP4 videos: Full episodes/films etc. is not allowed, smaller clips of film trailers etc. is OK. I have therefore removed my site from AAS, and any link to it.
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  #75  
Old 30-07-2003, 03:27 PM
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Sorry Raven for bringing up the MP4s!!!

I wonder how long it is before the equivalent of the RIAA starts chasing people for MP4's instead of MP3's???

And Switchblade
Quote:
if you can't be bothered to spend money for an app costing <£20 why buy an expensive phone instead of a cheap £50 one?
I didn't pay over £300 for my P800, I got it for £60 on a new contract..... and just learned yesterday, a mate in the office has been with T-Mobile for 8 years spends about £100 a month on his contract and told them if his P800 ever became damaged or stopped working he couldn't afford to have it away from him for even as much as a day.

They shipped him a second one for free!!!!

That's customer service!
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