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Old 16-09-2008, 07:26 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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One AppStore to rule them all... is a bad idea

When your application is blacklisted because it duplicates the functions on the phone, something has gone wrong, thinks Ewan Spence, who considers the issue of a single monolithic app store, and tells why he thinks the Symbian way is better.

Read on in the full article.

Old 16-09-2008, 07:50 AM
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The Symbian Signed stuff is also capable to blacklist applications from the Symbian based phones so I don't quite understand the point.

Old 16-09-2008, 08:00 AM
bartmanekul bartmanekul is offline
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Ive got to say I disagree - the fragmentation described has done so little to encourage users to install 3rd party apps on their smartphones. And is still a major hurdle for your average smartphone user.

It might look like theres lots of people using apps when you read this site and browse the forums, but in reality, only a small amount of smartphone users even know they can install apps.

Apples app store has had a huge number of people install apps, mainly because its all in one place.

You dont get people asking in the forums searching for where apps are, or if one exists which does xxxx.

Theres nothing to stop Nokia from having an app store as successful as Apple's, and still having third party sites that offer them (Samir being a good example).

Old 16-09-2008, 08:47 AM
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I have to disagree too, the Symbian way is fine for 'Mobile Geeks' like me, but for the general public it stinks, I have at least four members of my immediate family that own N95's, out of those only one (the wife) has any 3rd party software installed, and thats because I put it on there.
The others don't have any mainly because they don't have time to trawl the net looking for it, and if they did wouldn't know how to get it too their phone and install it.
For this reason the single Appstore works, Apple's latest figures for their Appstore state that over 3000 applications are now available with over 100 million downloads since the store started in July.

I'd be surprised if the S60 figures are anywhere near to this,

The fact that just about any S60 application is hacked and pirated and available for free within hours of being released, adds even more weight to the argument for an Apple type store, at least their approach means that the developers of applications get fair payment for their work, personally I don't know why anyone bothers developing anything other than freeware for S60 such is the rampant piracy.
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Last edited by Ratkat; 16-09-2008 at 08:59 AM.

Old 16-09-2008, 09:05 AM
svdwal svdwal is offline
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If the AppStore is a bad idea, it is at least one that is making money

While Ewan makes a number of valid points about the One AppStore, let me (as a commercial developer) raise some points in its defence, and tell you why I think it is a good idea.

1) Apple isn't the only party that sets restrictions on the kind of apps it allows in its store. Other resellers have very similar terms and conditions, the wordings in the contracts being so similar that they appear to be drafted by the same person doing a copy&paste from a master document.

2) In the Symbian world, the manufacturer can in certain circumstances also prevent apps from being installed on a device. Symbian Signed and Manufacturer-approved capabilities come to mind.

3) Discovery is as much of a problem on a PC with a browser as it is on an on-device client. This more a matter of having a good category system and lots of ways to sort.

4) As far as I can see, Apple doesn't look at the triviality of the app. It has a policy, but the app being trivial is allowed by that policy.

5) The problem with Apple (or any other party) having lost of control is because of the fact that these phones are subsidized; "He who pays the piper gets to name the tune". The number of people paying for the entire device themselves is too low to make an impact. Compare this for instance to the games console market, where hardware is sold at a loss, and costs are recovered by letting developers pay huge licensing costs for developing for a console.

Now for the good things on the AppStore, in order of commercial importance.

A) Developers make money. The single most important issue for a commercial developer. According to a number of public statements made by developers they are making lots more money than for other platforms.

B) Fulfillment costs are very low and known. This makes it possible to let the market determine the price of an app, and it makes a mass-market approach possible. With the high fulfillment costs which is is the norm for selling Symbian software (and also WinMob, Palm etc) a commercial developer can only cater for niche markets.

C) Obvious route-to-market. Having the AppStore frontend on the device itself and making it very easy to buy and install an app, these things make shopping for iPhone apps an enjoyable experience. There's almost no hassle, no endless are-you-sure dialogs or other things that might put off the punter. Again, a mass-market approach.

So I do too know which model I prefer. AppStore is not perfect, but it is much better than what we have in the Symbian world right now.

Old 16-09-2008, 09:47 AM
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One store to rule them all

Despite Apple's development kit. The iPhone platform is still a closed one. Wether you like it or not. How much control do you want other people to have over your phone? How much control do you want other people to have over your TV, vcr/vtr, blueray drive and your PC. which movies to play on which device? It's just a reversed form of DRM. Apple's building another cashcow.

Symbian offers choice. Choice to preselect for only signed applications of know sources or take any program. Nokia could even go for Nokia approved, Symbian signed (know origin), or unknown origin software. It's what N-gage is doing at the moment. They might be clearer to the customer about the threefold prong approach and the freedom of choice that is given. New users might go for Nokia only until more familiar with the platform's reliable 3rd party software distributors. Phones contain a lot of private information and have a pay-per-sms/call ability. As such each should be able to select his own level of desired security.

Last edited by snoyt; 16-09-2008 at 09:50 AM.

Old 16-09-2008, 10:12 AM
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Like many readers of this site - I have to configure my families phones, computers and networks... and we all know how difficult that is!!!

Personally, in the real world of my family, I would like a very simple controlled experience. I have set-up Apple networks and Windows networks - one for my brother and one for my sister. All I can say is that the Apple method of limited hardware choices and software compared to the Windows world of loads of choices of hardware and software is that it was SO much easier to work in the Apple world.

I think as phones are basically computers that the simpler the better for most people. Sometimes more choice = less choice. In my practical experience if something doesn't work first time then people give up.

Old 16-09-2008, 10:44 AM
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The reason that the new apple appstore has been so successful in a short time is because all the new iPhone owners are trying it out. It will settle down.

Old 16-09-2008, 11:13 AM
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snoyt snoyt is offline
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Like many readers of this site - I have to configure my families phones, computers and networks... and we all know how difficult that is!!!
Only for some. The problem with windows is that there is no logic in the menu structure and their wizards are crap. Unix i.e. has well written manpages and logical way to do things and is easy to configure by hand to ones complete satisfaction. The ability to configure something completely to fit your (real, not fashion) needs should not be sacrificed for simplicity itself.

And this is actually not the issue. The issue is wether or not you get a choice!

Old 16-09-2008, 11:18 AM
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It would make sense for Nokia to add an apps store to the Ovi line up and replace the current poor offering on all new phones. As usual apple has not invented something they have just made it more user friendly. Very few people with S60 phones I know even know that the download app exists let alone actually used it. It's a totally unusable bit of 80s software!

Old 16-09-2008, 12:19 PM
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Apple has also made sure that the software in the Apps Store are affordable and yet the quality is high. More than 95% of the high quality software are below USD10.

People are happy to make purchases from the Apple's Apps Store because it is easy to browse and make a purchase. The products are also relatively cheap and of high quality.

Old 16-09-2008, 01:45 PM
svdwal svdwal is offline
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Apple has also made sure that the software in the Apps Store are affordable and yet the quality is high. More than 95% of the high quality software are below USD10.
Apple does not dictate pricing in any way on the AppStore. The prices you see are the result of the market doing what it does best, suppliers competing for customers.

Old 16-09-2008, 02:33 PM
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I can see your point, but....

you made some good points, but I think most bloggers on S60 are bias because they are power users. We all use 3rd party apps, and some of us know every possible tweak, hack, and app to apply because we know about places like this where we can find them.

I think for s60 to reach the masses (especially in the U.S., where power users are becoming more frequent but are not the majority) they need to make the experience as user friendly as possible. One way to do this, is to create a place where they can see all the interesting things that S60 phones can do.

Old 16-09-2008, 03:11 PM
stewart01 stewart01 is offline
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The AppStore is a good idea - everything in one place.

However, there are significant problems of how iPod / Touch and appStore are managed:

* Apple dictate what content and applications are acceptable
* Apple can refuse applications on a whim ( ) - and once refused - that application cannot be offered / sold elsewhere ( except for jail breaking )
* SDK is very much crippled - no bluetooth API, no background applications etc etc.
* 3rd party Applications cannot compete with Apple applications* See link above

Old 16-09-2008, 05:53 PM
rbrunner rbrunner is offline
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The lesser of two evils

Apple denying some applications entry into the app store because they are deemed to dangerous a competition or because they would violate contract clauses with the carriers that are not public and thus traps that await the unsuspecting programmer - that's an evil.

The sorry mess of the Symbian application discovery and vending landscape that is known well enough to the readers of this forum - that's another evil.

Now can a have a third way please? Not at the moment, as it looks. I *have* to decide - app store guarded by a just-ok dictator or a sorry mess of a market. So which do I take, as an application developper?

Hands down Apple's app store, of course. For me, that's clearly the lesser of the two evils, at least so far, at the moment.

Many people seem to have problems with the very concept of "the lesser of two evils" - probably because they cannot help themselves and continue to dream about a third, better alternative, that might appear like a miracle - where there really is none.

So the lesser of the two evils is it, then - Apple's app store.


appstore, bad, idea, rule

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