All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #16  
Old 22-06-2009, 03:24 PM
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hate java! i wont buy any app with java.
i nokia will die a slow death cuz not even non-java app work smooth and fast. please nokia wake up!!! i dont want to go to the dark force of android and the like...

  #17  
Old 22-06-2009, 11:38 PM
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Most of the comments here seem to be religiously based from bitter programming zealots. I've programmed all sorts of stuff over 25 years and really, J2ME isn't that bad, and on Nokias is not very fragmented these days, and has a set of quite powerful APIs. What seals the deal tho is the fact that if u want to reach the most customers/users for your app, it's the only way to go. If u include S40 handsets and sell through the Ovi store you're looking at hundreds of millions of potential new buyers each year - numbers which developers on other platforms will only be able to ever dream of and never come close to.

  #18  
Old 23-06-2009, 12:38 AM
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Lightbulb java is not dead

i agree with these sentiments. the iphone has masses of boring inane applications, e.g mood lighting or virtual water, or a piano which you can play via the touchscreen. it also has alot of great games, however i feel s60 has more decent core applications. series 60 is no frills, with applications which just work and do a job. nokia lacks a native skype client which is hopefully being addressed.

  #19  
Old 23-06-2009, 12:45 AM
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java thoughts

this continues from the last posting, when comparing say the N97 against the iphone, aside from the proof of concept features, and bells and whistles "how many applications serve a purpose" on both platforms and how many are simply bloatware. fun applications are nice, however not when there are about 7-8 doing the same thing imo.

  #20  
Old 23-06-2009, 03:41 AM
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J2me

"Any language that has to include its own src in the executable to work (regardless of the reasons) is just insane on a limited memory device such as mobiles, even today"

Are you sure about that? I think you may be thinking of JavaScript. afaik, Java uses IL, in the same way .net does, which is NOT source, but rather a platform independent binary. Yes, slightly bigger than a normal binary, but with an efficient runtime engine, almost as performant, and the choice of dev environment, and portability make it a no brainer for cross platform apps, which is where the money is, and where developers will generally go.

on another topic, are these captcha's getting more and more abstract, or do I need glasses?? :P Had to refresh 3 times before I could get the words..

  #21  
Old 23-06-2009, 07:03 AM
malbry malbry is offline
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Well J2ME certainly has some weaknesses, as the previous posters have highlighted. But when I decided to write a mobile personal finance application in 2004, I figured that I was going to spend many hundreds of hours coding and refining the program. I wanted to create an application that was as 'future-proof' as possible. Knowing that I change phones every 12 to 18 months, I didn't want to find that my latest must-have device wasn't compatible with the software I'd written. Back in 2004 (pre Android, pre iPhone), the only language that ran on almost every phone was Java.

Five years later, it is still the case that Java is the most widely-used language on mobile devices - whether normal 'dumb' phones by most manufacturers, S40, S60, UIQ3, WinMob, Blackberry. Yes, there are some quirks in the Java implementations. But generally well-written J2ME code will run on all these devices with minimal customisation.

Not so for Android and iPhone which, in my opinion, is a shame.

Best regards,
Malcolm
www.freepoc.org

  #22  
Old 23-06-2009, 07:38 AM
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But java isn't portable, write once run anywhere is pure marketing BS hype. Program your app for Nokia device #1, then re-program for device #2 with its new touch interface and different screen dimensions.

It is just as easy to use C++.

  #23  
Old 23-06-2009, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
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But java isn't portable, write once run anywhere is pure marketing BS hype. Program your app for Nokia device #1, then re-program for device #2 with its new touch interface and different screen dimensions.

It is just as easy to use C++.
Correct. "Minimal customisation" LOL! Someone must have a minimal app.

  #24  
Old 23-06-2009, 08:27 AM
malbry malbry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
But java isn't portable, write once run anywhere is pure marketing BS hype. Program your app for Nokia device #1, then re-program for device #2 with its new touch interface and different screen dimensions.
Well, I guess that's what I mean by 'well-written'. J2ME has supported pointer events from the start. So a competent programmer would write code which catered for both touch and non-touch devices and for varying screen sizes. I mean we know there are devices with different form factors out there. Anyone writing code just for QVGA non-touch devices would realise that he/she is limiting the portability of their software. I still maintain that well-written Java code is reasonably portable. Not 100% perfect, but on the whole less work to move between devices than (for example) C++.

Best regards,
Malcolm

  #25  
Old 23-06-2009, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malbry View Post
Well, I guess that's what I mean by 'well-written'. J2ME has supported pointer events from the start. So a competent programmer would write code which catered for both touch and non-touch devices and for varying screen sizes. I mean we know there are devices with different form factors out there. Anyone writing code just for QVGA non-touch devices would realise that he/she is limiting the portability of their software. I still maintain that well-written Java code is reasonably portable. Not 100% perfect, but on the whole less work to move between devices than (for example) C++.

Best regards,
Malcolm
Even with all the best intentions and cleanest programming, only the simple, basic apps work out reasonably portable.

  #26  
Old 23-06-2009, 04:56 PM
Jonnycat26 Jonnycat26 is offline
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Part of the problem for the java haters is, Nokia is actively pushing developers towards J2ME and WRT. The other part is, J2ME just makes sense if you're going to do any Symbian development. S60 is scheduled to be phased out (per the Symbian foundation roadmap) next year, and any development investment would be shot once that happens.

I see native Symbian apps becoming rarer and rarer, and relagated to the "system" level, with J2ME becoming more and more common. A quick look at what's being offered via Ovi seems to confirm that.

  #27  
Old 23-06-2009, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonnycat26 View Post
Part of the problem for the java haters is, Nokia is actively pushing developers towards J2ME and WRT. The other part is, J2ME just makes sense if you're going to do any Symbian development. S60 is scheduled to be phased out (per the Symbian foundation roadmap) next year, and any development investment would be shot once that happens.

That's just a lie. The forums are getting silly. The roadmap clearly says Symbian^2 will stay compatible with S60 apps.

And further, the apps that have really gone down well (because they have silly UI effects in them) have been Symbian native apps. Like Gravity. No java app ever caused a splash like Gravity. Same with Profimail, which doesn't even use S60.

Java = bargain basement.

  #28  
Old 23-06-2009, 11:41 PM
Jonnycat26 Jonnycat26 is offline
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That's just a lie. The forums are getting silly. The roadmap clearly says Symbian^2 will stay compatible with S60 apps.
That's true. It's also true that the roadmap also clearly says that QT will replace the S60 UI in Symbian^3.

Java is being pushed by Nokia, and for good reason.
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  #29  
Old 24-06-2009, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonnycat26 View Post
That's true. It's also true that the roadmap also clearly says that QT will replace the S60 UI in Symbian^3.

Java is being pushed by Nokia, and for good reason.
As a developer I see no push for java. I see widgets, but no java. If the popular Nokia supplied apps like sprot tracker, maps, photo browser beta, Ovi were java then I would agree. But they are not.

  #30  
Old 24-06-2009, 07:53 AM
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timber maquet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycat26 View Post
That's true. It's also true that the roadmap also clearly says that QT will replace the S60 UI in Symbian^3.

That will be "QT for S60" as Nokia call it. QT programming is done in C++. Java is there for convenience, PYS60 would make a better higher level partner for Nokias.
 

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