All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #1  
Old 22-02-2009, 10:36 PM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Camera Nitty Gritty - The Series Overview and Conclusions

Over the last six months on All About Symbian in my 'Camera Nitty Gritty' series, I've tackled a number of phone camera-related issues head on and tried to draw conclusions, even though they sometimes fly in face of phone marketing. In this article, I provide an index to all the Camera Nitty Gritty articles and also summarise some of the individual article conclusions. Xenon flash, resolution, apertures, branded optics, it's all here and neatly broken down.



Read on in the full article.

  #2  
Old 22-02-2009, 11:04 PM
Tzer2 Tzer2 is offline
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One test which a number of sites have done is to get cameraphone photos printed on proper photo paper along with those from a dedicated camera. The test is: can people tell the difference between the cameraphone photos and the camera photos?

If you use a decent autofocus 5mp or 3mp cameraphone I don't think most people would spot it in amongst their holiday snaps, so in that sense they are already good enough for most people. Even a fixed focus cameraphone's pictures might go unnoticed.

  #3  
Old 23-02-2009, 05:35 AM
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i read this comment on symbian-freak about hacking N85 to get better pictures. can you experts confirm if this works? here is the full text:

1- Copy z:\private\10202BE9\10282EDC.txt to c:\private\10202BE9

2- Edit the file and change the following line :
0x3001A string "QualitySetLevel=306,ImageFileMimeType=image/jpeg,ImageWidth=2592,ImageHeight=1944,ImageFileExt ension=.jpg,ImageEncoderUID=0x00000000,Compression Quality=85,EstimatedSize=650000,CameraDisplayId=2, CamcorderVisible=350" 0 cap_rd=alwayspass cap_wr=alwaysfail

to:
0x3001A string "QualitySetLevel=306,ImageFileMimeType=image/jpeg,ImageWidth=2592,ImageHeight=1944,ImageFileExt ension=.jpg,ImageEncoderUID=0x00000000,Compression Quality=100,EstimatedSize=890000,CameraDisplayId=2 ,CamcorderVisible=350" 0 cap_rd=alwayspass cap_wr=alwaysfail

3- Save and restart.

The photos (at the 5MP settings) now are an average of 900KB instead
of 600KB, which means less JPEG compression, which means theoretically better quality.


I tried messing with all the other params (QualitySetLevel, ImageHeight, ImageWidth, ImageEncoderUID, CamcorderVisible) but they didn't seem to make a difference in the photo file size.

Also at the top of the file where the Video recording params are defined, I tried changing the VideoBitRate=4000000 to VideoBitRate=6000000 and
that also didn't make a difference. Maybe 4MB/S is a hardware limitation for video recording on the N85 ???

Please test and let us know your results.

  #4  
Old 23-02-2009, 02:10 PM
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Angry

there's only one feature i want on a cameraphone. that it takes pictures of error messages on computer screens silently. my nokia e71 as of the last firmware update turned of the ability to be silent. the device is now a paperweight as far as i'm concerned.

my trust in nokia is now zero.
* if they had of sold the device with that set that way i could have adjusted.
* if they had of warned me before the update that would have been acceptable.

as it is they turned a working device into a an annoying piece of crap. i have a sneaking suspicion i'm going to take a hammer to it in the next month as it annoys me so much.

now i'm not getting a n97. i'm never going to recommend nokia again. that's about 10-20 sales a year right there. small change to them but sod it.

there are partial fixes and i've tried a few but they don't work on my e71. but my interest in fixing it is at this point zero.

  #5  
Old 23-02-2009, 03:26 PM
Tzer2 Tzer2 is offline
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Quote:
there's only one feature i want on a cameraphone. that it takes pictures of error messages on computer screens silently.
Why on earth does a camera have to be silent when it takes pictures of error messages on computer screens?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested in why this is so important to you.


Quote:
my nokia e71 as of the last firmware update turned of the ability to be silent. the device is now a paperweight as far as i'm concerned.
Quote:
as it is they turned a working device into a an annoying piece of crap. i have a sneaking suspicion i'm going to take a hammer to it in the next month as it annoys me so much.
That's a bit like saying that a car is totally useless because its radio makes a small noise when it changes stations.

If you ONLY wanted a device for taking pictures silently, and absolutely none of the phone's other features matter at all to you, why didn't you get a dedicated camera?

The E71 isn't even marketed as a cameraphone, it's mainly meant for writing e-mail, hence the full QWERTY keyboard. It seems a very odd device to choose if you only wanted a silent camera.

  #6  
Old 23-02-2009, 03:52 PM
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Sound Files for camera

Does anyone know what and where the audio files are for the 'Clicking' of the camera.
I am guessing that deleting those files or replacing them with a blank audio file would solve the 'clicking/snapping' of the camera.
Thus problem solved.

  #7  
Old 23-02-2009, 03:58 PM
Tzer2 Tzer2 is offline
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Actually, this topic has me a bit mystified... except for funerals and recording studios, I can't think of any situation where a camera HAS to be silent.

Why are so many people interested in turning off the shutter noise?

  #8  
Old 23-02-2009, 03:58 PM
maartenmk maartenmk is offline
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On my N82 at least, when 'warning tones' are set to off in a profile, the camera sounds are gone.
The location of the camera sounds is indeed known, I can't remember, so Google for it. But they are in a protected area, so you cannot change them without hacking your phone.

  #9  
Old 23-02-2009, 04:00 PM
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Angry

i use the phone for everything.

web, opera mini
email, gmail app
book reading, qreader
games, freecell
notes in notepad.
camera, shootng error messages and wildlife (the noise is a dead give away then)

since it started clicking i use my e71 way less(down from 30 to about 5). even dug out my old e61 and will probably switch all data to that and find a quiet camera.

why must it be silent? why must it make noise! the idea is that it is protecting somebody is usually put forward? nonsense. if i wanted a silent phone i would pop it open and disable the speaker. 2-3 hours i reckon with a little care would do it. i make less than 1 voice calls a month so it would not be an issue.

for example i'm offended that when i use winxp i need wga to tell ms that i am not using a stolen version of windows. i'm offended that they're using my ram, cpu and internet constantly checking that i'm a thief.

i'm now offended that nokia are kowtowing to a bad law that isn't going to protect anybody. it was said very nicely in a slashdot discussion that if the camera that shot the cop shooting the restrained prisoner had of made noise then there might not be evidence of the cop shooting the prisoner a it would have been confiscated.

some people can ignore a tap dripping. i'm just not one of those people. that noise is the loudest sound in my office when it goes off. very very distracting.

i know it is a small issue for most (i've seen a fair few discussions online bitching about it) and it may sound crazy but it is enough for me to drop nokia permenantly. i got an iphone at christmas and its complete crap. but right now it annoys me far less than the e71. way the go nokia!

heres the weird part. i mentioned to 2 techy nerds on friday that i was looking for something other than nokia and both of them were in the same boat. 1 because they weren't bringing out a replacement for the e70 as he preferred the flip open keyboard and 1 because android looked more interesting. the 3 of us where till the start of this year absolute nokia fans. if you knew the trouble the e70 owner went to get the device you'd no how bad this is for nokia. they just seem to piss of their best fans (we were all buying high end devices 1-2 a year). once you piss off a customer they are not going to come back.

most of the devices i use these days seem to have artificial limitations.
3g iphone only works with 1 itunes and won't shoot video.
nokia e71 has this stupid click noise.

  #10  
Old 23-02-2009, 04:07 PM
maartenmk maartenmk is offline
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On-topic again: I am a bit surprised by the conclusion on the Megapixel Myth, in the context of the other parts of the series. Firstly, the Innov8 seems to have the best image quality, and second, the Megapixel Microscopy (if not a new technique, surely it is a new term!) and wider cropping possibilities of images contradict the conclusion.

  #11  
Old 23-02-2009, 04:13 PM
Tzer2 Tzer2 is offline
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Quote:
why must it be silent? why must it make noise!
I don't care if it makes a noise or not, but I find it a bit weird that someone might think this is the NUMBER ONE issue when choosing a phone.

Saying that a phone is a "paperweight" and "useless" purely because the camera makes a small noise is pretty strange.


Quote:
the idea is that it is protecting somebody is usually put forward? nonsense.
Erm... you're the only one who's talking about privacy. No one else has mentioned it so far in this thread.


Quote:
i'm now offended that nokia are kowtowing to a bad law that isn't going to protect anybody
I've no idea if this is a law or not, but if it is then Nokia doesn't really have any choice in the matter. All manufacturers have to obey laws, otherwise their products may be banned from shops.

If you don't like a law, complain to your local member of parliament, they're the ones who make laws. Tell your MP exactly why you want to have silent cameras so much.


Quote:
some people can ignore a tap dripping. i'm just not one of those people.
A tap dripping is annoying because the noise carries on even when the tap is turned off.

A camera noise is more like a tap that makes a noise when you use it.



Quote:
heres the weird part. i mentioned to 2 techy nerds on friday that i was looking for something other than nokia and both of them were in the same boat. 1 because they weren't bringing out a replacement for the e70 as he preferred the flip open keyboard and 1 because android looked more interesting. the 3 of us where till the start of this year absolute nokia fans.
If your number one priority in a phone is to take photos silently, I'm not sure how that puts you in the same boat as an E70 fan and someone who's interested in Android. Is there a huge market for Android-based gullwing phones with silent cameras?

  #12  
Old 23-02-2009, 04:38 PM
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Angry

quote:I don't care if it makes a noise or not, but I find it a bit weird that someone might think this is the NUMBER ONE issue when choosing a phone.

it's not my number one issue when choosing a phone. i knew that i could turn it off when i bought it. the firmware update has taken away that ability. therefore the device can no longer do what i want with it. if they had of warned me before i updated it i would probably have bought another e71 and used the silent one for photos while using the updated version for everthing else. it is the lack of info that nokia gives that annoys me most.

quote:Saying that a phone is a "paperweight" and "useless" purely because the camera makes a small noise is pretty strange.

to you it is small. to me it is the most annoying thing. different foks different strokes. you only have to google the issue to see that there are a fair few who feel as i do.

Quote:Erm... you're the only one who's talking about privacy. No one else has mentioned it so far in this thread.

sorry i thought you knew. the reason for the addition of the click is to prevent perverts from taking upskirt photos on public transport. this is suposed to be a big problem in japan and korea. ironically the heavy diesel engines that dublin bus use means it's one of the few locations i can't hear the damn click. :-) was taking a picture of an asshat parked across 2 disabled parking bays if you must know.

quote:If you don't like a law, complain to your local member of parliament, they're the ones who make laws. Tell your MP exactly why you want to have silent cameras so much.

there is no such law in ireland. as far as i can tell its the law in japan, korea and 1-2 european countries. they are looking to introduce it into the us and when that happened nokia seems to have forced out the update. no warning no mention in the change log.

quote:A camera noise is more like a tap that drips once every time you use it.

my bad, what i was implying is a small but very annoying noise.

quote:I'm not sure how that puts you in the same boat as an E70 fan and someone who's interested in Android. Is there a huge market for Android-based gullwing phones with silent cameras?

the implication is that a number of technical people who till now were content with nokia are increasingly dissatisfied with the devices they are putting out. different reasons but same result. no more nokias sold to the 3 of us. it's a pity as nokia makes some of the best hardware. defintely the best batteries and devices with the best battery life.

hope that clears up some of my points. as i said most people don't care but to others it is an incredible annoyance.

at this point even if nokia did a uturn i would be very reluctant to trust them. once bitten twice shy.
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  #13  
Old 23-02-2009, 04:45 PM
Tzer2 Tzer2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
it's not my number one issue when choosing a phone.
Your first post in this thread said that a silent camera was your ONLY issue when choosing a phone:

"there's only one feature i want on a cameraphone. that it takes pictures of error messages on computer screens silently."

...and you then said that your E71 was a paperweight because the camera was no longer silent.

I totally understand how frustrating it is when there's some annoying glitch or "feature" in a firmware update, but seems a bit extreme to write off an entire smartphone purely because of the camera click noise.

  #14  
Old 23-02-2009, 07:49 PM
jaclu
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z:\private

Anonymous mentioned a way to change settings for N85 camera app. In the tip I was supposed to copy a file from z:\private but I can't see this directory in Y-Browser - am I missing something or do I need to hack the phone to be able to see that part of the filesystem?

  #15  
Old 24-02-2009, 05:11 AM
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Yes, yes, Yes. you have to hack your phone and that's another long story my friend.
 

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