All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #1  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:29 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Nokia have forgotten your favourite phone - Get over it

Let's try and work out two end points on the line of support for hardware. If you bought a new Nokia phone yesterday, you would expect the Finnish company to support it with the latest products and updates. But you wouldn't expect Nokia to be supporting the very first S60 phone, the 7650 in 2010? Agreed? Now read on, because that thought is important.

Read on in the full article.

  #2  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:36 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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This is starting to become a well worn rant of mine (see the previous news story), but I don't really agree that the current generation of Nokia smartphones are necessarily better - definitely a case of two steps forwards and two (or more) backwards. And don't get me started on graphics acceleration and Xenon 8-)

But I agree with the core point to the editorial, that Nokia has to cut loose some older models at some point and that people shouldn't be too surprised.*

* though I'd STILL like to see Ovi Maps 3.3 for the N95 8GB, which has more RAM and more power than the E71, on the same platform etc. etc. Grump. Grump.....
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2010, 11:57 AM
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Broadly agree

I broadly agree that you can't expect support forever. It would be nice to see some development on the E75 though. It has been out in the wild for less than a year runs FP2 and the updates to date have either disabled features (turn to silence) or been bug fixes for leaky memory gobbling code.
It would be nice to see maps 3.03 on this one.
Nokia could have saved a lot of negative chatter in the forums by announcing which devices they were working on maps for.
Use traffic lights Red - Too old,technically no hope or we don't want to for commercial reasons
Amber - Should work but we don't know how much work it will take
Green - Available/code in testing

  #4  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:14 PM
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I really should register on here...

Anyway

"Those of you still stuck on the N95, it really is time to move forward and look at what's new in the smartphone world.

For all its faults, you will be at home with S60 5th Edition; you will find that touch is a valuable addition; your favourite applications are all still available in a comfortable and familiar environment; it's just that it's now up to date with larger screens, more storage, better connectivity... everything you liked in the N95 you'll find on the later devices.

There's been a lot of movement since the N95 was designed in 2006. When it's time to upgrade, upgrade. This future is a nice place to buy your next phone."

I'm still using a N95 8GB and what I'm saying isn't based on Ovi Maps. Actually I think 8 for a full years navigation on a 2.5 year old phone is great! But it's about the paragraphs above in particular.

If I were to buy a new phone now it would NOT be a Symbian based phone. Period. This is not because I don't want a Nokia/Symbian phone but because this future ISN'T a nice place to buy my next phone.

If I wait until around June, I could get the new iPhone with iPhone OS 4. Now Apple (based on Mac OS X and how the iPhone seems to be going) fully supports the current version and the previous version. As iPhone OS 4 will (fully) work with the iPhone out in June and the 3GS. So this iPhone out in June will be, in theory, fully supported until June 2012. Right when the contract is up for renewal.

If I buy a S60 5th Edition phone, it'll be replaced with Symbian^3 on new devices before then end of the year. Nokia certainly won't put Symbian^3 on an N97. And then Symbian^4 will be on new devices in 2011.

This is a bad, bad time to buy a Nokia because the Symbian OS will be totally unsupported and obsolete within 6-12 months. Great.
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:16 PM
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I think it's possible to get 3.03 maps on the N95, checking out the sis-installation .pkg there's a line in the code that says:

IF (MachineUid=0x2000249B) OR (MachineUid=0x2000249C)

Which seems to be the identification code for the E66 and E71. Changing one of the codes to 0x2000060B (N95) or completely remove the line should probably solve the installation error.

However the tool I'm using doesn't allow me to modify the .pkg, it only allows me to create a new one without the option to keep certain crucial lines. In time hopefully...

  #6  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:18 PM
tawalker tawalker is offline
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In principle, I agree with much of what Ewan says above; it's clearly unreasonable to expect indefinite support for every handset a given manufacturer produces (and I'm not convinced that most users do expect this, to be honest).

However, please don't assume that anyone still using (for example) the Nokia N95, is some kind of Luddite who hasn't upgraded because they don't know what else is out there. I am one of those N95 owners (since 2007), and let me assure you that I keep a very close eye on developments in the smartphone arena - not just Symbian, but other platforms (mostly Android).

Put simply: if there had been a device in the last three years which was a clear improvement over the N95 in every department, I would probably have upgraded to it by now. The problem is, in my view, that there hasn't been one - a device may win out in a few areas, but there's always some other feature which lets it down next to the N95. (I ask you: How hard can it be for a smartphone maker to improve all-round on a three-year-old handset?)

It's only now in 2010 that there seem to be phones providing that clear improvement - I'm watching out for the HTC Desire and the rumoured Nokia N8-00 (the latter looks very tasty) - but please don't assume that anyone still using a 2007-vintage handset is some kind of retro nostalgist

  #7  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:19 PM
svdwal svdwal is offline
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OTOH, for a software and services company it is a bad move to cut off a significant proportion of your potential customer base. Supporting older devices sends a clear signal that your software and services proposition has a lot of value and that the devices running your software and services are not as important as the software and services themselves.

This makes the devices themselves more valuable as well, because you do not need to change them so often, and you spend less in the end.

And yes, this is exactly what Apple is doing. The devices are expensive, but because you can still upgrade them to the latest OS and use the software and services for that OS (as many as possible). So instead of a EUR 500 device that will last two years, you get an EUR 600 device that lasts 4 years.

  #8  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:28 PM
irfanil irfanil is offline
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Thumbs up Nokia's Support is still WAY Better than the Rest

Well I think Nokia's Support lifetime is still better than any other phone. Worst of all is iPhone. It's outdated as soon as the new model is announced and it's support will only last 2 years max? Only Android seems to support (few) older hardware models.

With Symbian^4 and QT, I hope that device's support lifetime will only increase.

  #9  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:28 PM
Brendan Donegan
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@Unregistered

What's this about Symbian being totally unsupported - are you misunderstanding the situation? Symbian^1 apps will be fully compatible with Symbian^3 (it's part of my job to ensure this). Symbian^4 will expect apps to be written in Qt, which Symbian^3 devices will also support. So if you buy a Nokia Symbian device this summer, then you will be able to use all s60 5th edition apps (plus a lot of older ones, where compatible) PLUS all of the new apps written in Qt.

So ACTUALLY the time could never be better to buy a Symbian phone

  #10  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:32 PM
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Sometimes I think that it would have been better if the free navigation was never promised for old devices - only sold after the announcement.

  #11  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:39 PM
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Thumbs down

What upsets me about Nokia is that is that so many things seem not to work. I'm using an unbranded, unlocked E71 but am not allowed to upgrade to the latest firmware which is said to have fixed many problems. I'm still stuck with the firmware originally on the phone. I've made 6 failed attempts to purchase my first application from the ovi store. The first 3 attempts my card was declined. Nokia support took a week to write back and tell me all was fine on their end, that it must be my error. I made 3 more tries today, but I guess the store was broken.

  #12  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:46 PM
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@ Brendan Donegan

Sorry, in my haste I was referring specifically to the OS and how Nokia just won't put Symbian^(x+1) on a device that shipped with Symbian^x. And obviously Nokia will concentrate most of their effort on the latest version of Symbian. Which is what I class as "not supported". I suppose I should have put "not fully supported".

I may very well be misunderstanding the situation because from what you've written it sounds like I should ignore S60 5th, get a nice new Symbian^3 phone, then ignore the probable mess (from developers and Nokia playing catchup etc.) that Symbian^4 will bring. Then it'll be time for a nice solid Symbian^5

But Nokia tends to mess up their first generation flagships by not releasing them with high enough specs (N95 > N95 8GB, N97 > N97 Mini). So I'll be into Symbian^4 territory by then. Arrrrgggghhhh. Hopefully you now see my problem :p

  #13  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:51 PM
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Have to start a 2nd post, ironically this website/submission form is not compatible with my phone's browser. Nokia Email (or messaging or whatever its called today) won't install correctly. Well, it did once, but all other times (I hard reset/reinstall everything very frequently) it puts accts in regular messaging folder? Even this podcast doesn't work right. It was once addressed, but I cannot recall what if any solution was given. The AAS podcast is the only on of my 20 or so subscriptions that often doesn't download correctly. So many things about Nokia and my N800 and E71 are wonderful... But too many problems make me afraid to spend more money on their products.

  #14  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:57 PM
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I wouldn't be so annoyed if Nokia actually made a point of getting software updates available for all users promptly once released.

I have a Nokia N82 and can't update to latest firmware because apparently for my particular code the version I have is the latest. I'm stucj v20.xx when there is a v31 out.

I also had a Nokia 5800. Official Red UK unlocked version I purchased. There were new firmware out for months and still I could not get an official update for mine.

Nokia need to get there act together.

My main device is now a Nexus One (N82 as second sim). When Symbian get the touch screen stuff sorted out, I might consider getting another phone with Symbian OS on it (Love Android, but not a fanboy. You have to pay me if you want me to do that...).

But I want to know that I will get regular updates for my device to latest and greatest software. Current Symbian relationship to Nokia etc. with everything locked down so tight suggests I could still be sold something and then promptly forgotten about...

Rant over

Zuber

  #15  
Old 12-04-2010, 12:58 PM
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Should say 30.xxx not 20.xxx


Zuber
 

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