All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #31  
Old 12-04-2010, 03:57 PM
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Not moving on

Like others have said, I agree with the general premise here. However, there are a couple problems. First, the support world has changed. Like it or not, Apple has created a situation where people expect their handsets to be supported by the latest software releases for longer periods of time. Users are more than willing to accept hardware limitations (like the lack of a GPS on the 1st gen iPhone) but the fact of the matter is, the current iPhone OS supports that original device which was released around the same time as the N95. Apps written by developers today (again with the hardware limitation caveat) will run on all versions of the phone.

Second, Nokia has created the problem themsevles. If Nokia had limited free navigation to FP2 phones, the N95 owners would grumble, but it wouldn't be the outcry it has become. However, when Nokia opens the FP1 door, then all FP1 owners are going to complain. As far as I, and apparently a lot of the rest of the N95 community can tell, there isn't really a good reason that the E71 can maintain support and the N95 can't. Add to that Nokia's statement that "you talked, we listened" and you've got the makings of a virtual riot. Just my humble opinion...

  #32  
Old 12-04-2010, 04:10 PM
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Bridge the gap to Symbian^3

I generally understand the point of not supporting all older phones, but I do think there is a window (for me at least) of the next 9 months where I want to upgrade my n85. I'd really like to wait for a Symbian^3 phone but am tempted to get an Android phone. Having a Ovi maps 3.3 as a new toy on my n85 might be keep me patient and in the Symbian camp until Symbian^3 phones are ready.

  #33  
Old 12-04-2010, 04:19 PM
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Oh please!!!

this argument would make more sense to all audiences(consumers, shareholders, product managers, executives, etc) if Nokia was actually releasing hi-quality successors to the N95, but the reality is their value proposition (new features and user experience net HW and SW quality) has really nose-dived after the N95 8GB. They're biggest asset is their brand in the smartphone market, and they really need to do more to preserve it and prove to the high end user that Nokia will be faithful to them if they pay a premium for high end devices, not just cut losses and start fresh, because:
- consumers in the smartphone market is much smaller in market size
- consumers in the smartphone market are much less likely to forget bad experience
- consumers in the smartphone market are much louder and more adept in voicing negative feedback to the marketplace

How will they ever gain confidence in future potential consumers if they start reading thread after thread after thread about how horrible their 'flagship' products are? These types of consumers do a ton of research before making a pick.

This is a high end market space, not just mediocre mom and pop market. Can we be clear about that? And quite frankly, the current NPD worldwide statistics about Symbian's market share don't really reflect the market correctly, as it's pretty clear that Nokia is pushing Symbian/S60 to the lower market while they still try to figure out how to make Maemo/Meego the high end offering. A few posters has said this before, but with the way Nokia is handling their situation, Symbian is really heading towards irrelevance in the smartphone space.

  #34  
Old 12-04-2010, 04:22 PM
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... N900. People will have to get over Nokia like Nokia gets over the N900.

  #35  
Old 12-04-2010, 04:52 PM
Abushaheed Abushaheed is offline
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Quite a few thought provoking comments on this particular thread and that's great, but speaking as a current stone age phone user (SE P1) looking to upgrade; I'm wondering if I shell out the cash for a S^3 device when they are available, if I'll be back in the same boat come S^4! Point being that it's ok to want people to upgrade, just make sure that there is a stable and understandable environment in which to make that change. What incentive do I have to purchase an S^3 device now rather than switch to Maemo/Meego or Android and look at Symbian again after S^4 has stabalised?
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  #36  
Old 12-04-2010, 04:57 PM
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Hey Abushaheed. Have you seen Nokia's support of N900? It still doesn't even have voice navigation even if u paid nevermind being free. They already said the unit wouldn't get an upgrade to Meego.

  #37  
Old 12-04-2010, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Like it or not, Apple has created a situation where people expect their handsets to be supported by the latest software releases for longer periods of time.
But many people don't want these tired, battered old phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Users are more than willing to accept hardware limitations (like the lack of a GPS on the 1st gen iPhone)
Are they!!!!?????

Speak for yourself. But the number of location aware apps is very high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
but the fact of the matter is, the current iPhone OS supports that original device which was released around the same time as the N95.
And the other fact of the matter is, if you want multi-tasking you need to upgrade your hardware.
Or jailbreak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Apps written by developers today (again with the hardware limitation caveat) will run on all versions of the phone.
Yes, the hardware caveat that torpedoes the whole thing.
Because that caveat regenerates the market.
Jailbreakers run multi-tasking on iPhone 3G.
Jobs says iPhone 3G can't run multi-tasking because it doesn't have the power.
Developers write video camera apps for iPhone 3G.
Jobs says 3G can't have video because it doesn't have the power.


What Jobs really means is, everyone can have multi-tasking and video but you might need to buy a new phone.

Exactly the same as Nokia with maps. Everyone can have free maps, but you might need a new phone.


It's both companies being selective about how they release their products so they can make more money. Business, simple as that.

But it's OK for Apple to restrict the features on their products, and pretend they support the older phones, but not Nokia?

  #38  
Old 12-04-2010, 05:40 PM
buster buster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I get that one by-product of capitalism is that companies need to create demand and have a planned obsolescence so that we consumers would keep buying products. Cell companies in the states assume that we will change up phones every 2 years with their contract length and discounts for handsets.

But the result (for me) of this planned obsolescence is that I look to change cell companies and/or equipment every 1-2 years and I have decreasing loyalty to companies or brands.
I don't really agree with your remark re. obsolescence. The real definition of obselescence is when a device either stops working or cannot be repaired after a certain time frame.

The fact that a phone is no longer supported re. FW does not make it obselete; it still works exactly as it did before support was dropped. Those users who are complaining about a lack of free navigation for the N95 are still using their N95, 4 years after it was first released....

  #39  
Old 12-04-2010, 05:41 PM
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, as it's pretty clear that Nokia is pushing Symbian/S60 to the lower market while they still try to figure out how to make Maemo/Meego the high end offering. .

Before you make any assumption you need to see how the 12MPixel, 1Ghz, Symbian^3 N8*00 is pitched into the market.

And any new Maemo/Meego geek phone if there ever is one.

  #40  
Old 12-04-2010, 05:43 PM
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I don't really agree with your remark re. obsolescence. The real definition of obselescence is when a device either stops working or cannot be repaired after a certain time frame.

The fact that a phone is no longer supported re. FW does not make it obselete; it still works exactly as it did before support was dropped. Those users who are complaining about a lack of free navigation for the N95 are still using their N95, 4 years after it was first released....
Or there is a strong movement in the app market for a feature that the phone doesn't support.

Doesn't really apply to the N95, it has GPS. I don't think people are writing a lot of location apps for it though.

  #41  
Old 12-04-2010, 05:49 PM
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Is Nokia paying AAS to write these kind of articles?
YYYAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroGent View Post
I'm not going to mention the lack of support on the N95 since I have it (even when it was not considered as 'historical'), but saying that it's the perfect time to move to S60v5 (already out-dated OS) is just a non-sense. .
People are forgetting the upgrades that N95 got in its first two year. It was not released with A-GPS, and it was not released with demand paging memory management.

  #42  
Old 12-04-2010, 06:11 PM
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Everything? Still waiting for internet radio on my N97, like I had on my N95 all those years ago...

  #43  
Old 12-04-2010, 07:17 PM
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morpheus2702 morpheus2702 is offline
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What I don't get is the proximity of which Symbian^3 and Symbian^4 are planned to be launched. Ok you lose the legacy support with ^3 but surely wouldn't you wait for ^4 to be launched as that's the future for Symbian? Is there an ugrade path from ^3 to ^4 or you buy a Symbian^3 device and that's it, you're stuck with it?

Being an open OS, cooked custom ROMs IMHO I believe will become a hallmark of the Symbian evolution, as once it was with WinMo and is now with Android.

If anyone can shed light on this area I'd appreciate it.

  #44  
Old 12-04-2010, 07:25 PM
gcameron00 gcameron00 is offline
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Expectations, shouldn't Nokia set them?

Ewan gets it right. There are two data points and we need to know where support ends somewhere between those. But Nokia needs to tell us that before we buy the device. Or they must announce that they will always give x number of months support after a later 'end of life' announcement. They'd also need to define support. Personally I don't think support means that every application Nokia releases in the future must run on it, I think it should mean some kind of regular fixes and upgrades to the core OS. Maps isn't core IMO.

Just out of interest is there anywhere I can look to see if there are any developers still looking at my current phone. ie will there be ever another firmware or is my phone killed (End of Life).

Anyway, as others have mentioned one of the problems is fragmentation. It seems that we actually have a different OS for every device, but they are loosely based on S60v3FP2 (or whatever). People don't expect this.

  #45  
Old 12-04-2010, 07:47 PM
kcfischer kcfischer is offline
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obsolete

Companies do not only have responsibilities to owners (shareholders), but more important to their customers. As a Nokia customer I tend to be loyal, if I am happy with the product/service after I purchased it. In my case a Nokia E90, purchased in 2008 for 700 euro sim lock free. Am I happy with Nokia product/service? Basically yes, up till now. If they would no longer support the E90 in 2010 and thereafter, I would be unhappy, because I expect more from them based on purchase price and build quality!
 

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