All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #31  
Old 05-09-2009, 12:05 PM
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This is just another stupid rant from Steve Litchfield the Nokia fanboy. He's only published this stupid post to defend his beloved Nokia who are no longer at the top of the hill in terms of megapixels AND picture quality (ermm, and also Xenon flash, video recording - you get my point).

It's quite obvious that a fanboy is defending his beloved company when he raises a silly point like:
"A 12 megapixel photo will take longer to save to card, meaning longer shot-to-shot times, and longer to load up later on, when browsing through your phone's photo gallery."

If you hadn't noticed, everyone apart from Nokia is using the newest and most powerful processors and fast internal flash memory in their new phones, which renders the above 'point' useless.

Nice try, but try harder next time, Nokia fanboy.

  #32  
Old 05-09-2009, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by maartenmk View Post
Not exactly a cry in the wilderness after all, as it seems I am about the only one to disagree here;
People have been saying the extra megapixels on phone cameras don't help , ever since two/three MP cameras started to appear, perhaps sooner. The line of what's considered useful just seems to shift.
And looking at the best camera phones out there at the moment, there is definitely a correlation between quality and MPs. Pixon and SE Satio, each at 12 MP, seem to be the best, closely followed by I8910 and N86, at 8 MP. This may have nothing to do with the amount of megapixels, but I don't have any real reason to think that, except for theories about noise levels and interference.
There certainly is too much noise in camera phone pictures overall. But zooming to 100%, the amount of noise on the I8910 doesn't seem to be any higher than on my N82, on the contrary.

Maybe it only helps a few percent in the quality. But I'd take them. The file size isn't really that much of an issue with 16 or 32 GB storage. Camera speed is, that's true. But you always have the option of switching to 3 or 5MP if needed.
Nope. This debate has already been fought and won in the world of compact digital cameras. It's an acknowledged situation that small sensors + high MP = poor quality. The case in point being Fuji where it is accepted that quality doesn't match that of lower MP 3 years ago. Canon G9 to G10, read the reviews of these cameras on expert sites like dpreview.com. It's not a theory, it's fact and it's not a new fact, it's years old.

  #33  
Old 05-09-2009, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by maartenmk View Post
N
There certainly is too much noise in camera phone pictures overall. But zooming to 100%, the amount of noise on the I8910 doesn't seem to be any higher than on my N82, on the contrary.
.
It's not the amount of noise in the images (although it gets far worse in low light). It's already been explained that the problem is the amount of processing that has to be performed by the DSP in the camera to reduce the noise. The more noise that has to be processed out, the more detail that is lost. Have 4000 x 3000 pixels of junk if you want.
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  #34  
Old 05-09-2009, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by IAmUnregistered View Post
This is just another stupid rant from Steve Litchfield the Nokia fanboy. He's only published this stupid post to defend his beloved Nokia who are no longer at the top of the hill in terms of megapixels AND picture quality (ermm, and also Xenon flash, video recording - you get my point).

It's quite obvious that a fanboy is defending his beloved company when he raises a silly point like:
"A 12 megapixel photo will take longer to save to card, meaning longer shot-to-shot times, and longer to load up later on, when browsing through your phone's photo gallery."

If you hadn't noticed, everyone apart from Nokia is using the newest and most powerful processors and fast internal flash memory in their new phones, which renders the above 'point' useless.

Nice try, but try harder next time, Nokia fanboy.
Looks like the crazies are still loose!

  #35  
Old 05-09-2009, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by IAmUnregistered View Post
This is just another stupid rant from Steve Litchfield the Nokia fanboy. He's only published this stupid post to defend his beloved Nokia who are no longer at the top of the hill in terms of megapixels AND picture quality (ermm, and also Xenon flash, video recording - you get my point).

It's quite obvious that a fanboy is defending his beloved company when he raises a silly point like:
"A 12 megapixel photo will take longer to save to card, meaning longer shot-to-shot times, and longer to load up later on, when browsing through your phone's photo gallery."

If you hadn't noticed, everyone apart from Nokia is using the newest and most powerful processors and fast internal flash memory in their new phones, which renders the above 'point' useless.

Nice try, but try harder next time, Nokia fanboy.

Usually these posts are from Fanboys themselves, how sad.

  #36  
Old 05-09-2009, 07:46 PM
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to be honest I do not feel like cry.

I am happy and I do enjoy such news because this means progress and we go further.
as long as many phone producers including nokia, sony or LG anounced this 12 megapixel
barrier being broken, why not to enjoy it?

We will be able to record HD videos soon on our mobiles.

Is this not a good news.

What I do not understand why the majority of users get cons and against 12 Mega pixel camera phones.

just because we do not own such a phone does not mean it is not good.
or, that phone might not be good as camera, but for shure we will get the most benefits of this technology soon....
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  #37  
Old 05-09-2009, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSpecialBoy View Post
to be honest I do not feel like cry.

I am happy and I do enjoy such news because this means progress and we go further.
as long as many phone producers including nokia, sony or LG anounced this 12 megapixel
barrier being broken, why not to enjoy it?

We will be able to record HD videos soon on our mobiles.

Is this not a good news.

What I do not understand why the majority of users get cons and against 12 Mega pixel camera phones.

just because we do not own such a phone does not mean it is not good.
or, that phone might not be good as camera, but for shure we will get the most benefits of this technology soon....
This is why the manufacturers can get away with it. Gullible consumers.

  #38  
Old 06-09-2009, 01:16 AM
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To me, the ones who are truly deserving of the 'ignorant' label are those who are passing judgement on the Pixon12 purely on the fact that is a 12MPx, without having had the chance to see what's capable of in a review.
So educate yourself, head to GSM Arena which did an exhaustive review of the Pixon12, testing it again your champion the mighty N86. Here's a preview: the Pixon12 wipes the floor with the N86 in all conditions, including low-light. While there, take a look at the flash tests too; I find them... illuminating.

  #39  
Old 06-09-2009, 01:22 AM
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Here is the link to the tests performed by GSM Arena.

  #40  
Old 06-09-2009, 07:58 AM
maartenmk maartenmk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
It's not the amount of noise in the images (although it gets far worse in low light). It's already been explained that the problem is the amount of processing that has to be performed by the DSP in the camera to reduce the noise. The more noise that has to be processed out, the more detail that is lost. Have 4000 x 3000 pixels of junk if you want.
Well it may have been already explained, but how do you explain that the low light performance of the Pixon12 is actually quite good, even without flash? And it clearly uses far less noise reduction than the N86.

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
It's not a theory, it's fact and it's not a new fact, it's years old.
Outdated then maybe? Again, the 12MP cameraphones produce the best results. Maybe this is despite the high MP count, but why would I think that? Because it used to be like that, for some dedicated cameras?

  #41  
Old 06-09-2009, 02:19 PM
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trespasin

Well, if the 3mpix camphone is enough for you the 12mpix can surely set it to shoot 3mpix picture on the camera setting... you just makin this simple thing so complicated.. ofcourse 12mpix camphone as compared 3mpix camphone like N93 has a huge gap in image quality. . . . and i em so stupid to explain that just like you all. . ,have a great stupid nonsense conversation. . .

  #42  
Old 06-09-2009, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by maartenmk View Post
Well it may have been already explained, but how do you explain that the low light performance of the Pixon12 is actually quite good, even without flash? And it clearly uses far less noise reduction than the N86.
How much noise reduction is used in the N86 and in the Pixon?


Quote:
Originally Posted by maartenmk View Post
Outdated then maybe? Again, the 12MP cameraphones produce the best results. Maybe this is despite the high MP count, but why would I think that? Because it used to be like that, for some dedicated cameras?
As outdated as tomorrow. Canon are replacing their flagship compact the Powershot G10 with the Powershot G11. They have have gone down in MP, from 14.7MP on the old G10, to 10MP on the new G11. As a result they have got better low light and high ISO performance, less noise and better image quality. They were actually led by the nose by Panasonic/Leica who had already sussed this out:

Quote:
"Canon G11 Defining Characteristics
In a clear slap in the face of the megapixel wars, Canon surprisingly (if not shockingly) downshifts the G11 from the 15mp of the G10 to 10mp, just like the Canon S90."
Savvy camera buyers are starting to bring some sense to he market. The tiny sensor in phones would, without a shadow of a doubt, benefit from a more conservative approach to raw resolution.

Here is the engadget take:
[quote="Engadget"
So here’s the new PowerShot G11 is a prosumer camera… Canon seems to be backing out of the megapixel race with this camera since they probably know photo enthusiasts aren’t easily fooled by insane, ever-increasing megapixel counts (usually accompanied by an increase in noise, decrease in burst speed and little to no ‘real’ resolution advantage). Canon has opted to fit the new G11 with a 10 megapixel sensor (versus 2008’s G10 14.7 megapixel CCD), which will hopefully produce better images.
[/QUOTE]


http://dpinterface.com/camera-news/canon-powershot-g11/

If a new phone comes out and everyone proclaims the camera image quality, it isn't necessarily the MegaPixels that will be the reason.

The ignorance is not the quality the pixon pictures, they might be good, but the idea that any quality is due to Megapixels is the ignorant view.

  #43  
Old 06-09-2009, 05:15 PM
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On the new Canon, here's another:

Quote:
Showing Megapixel Restraint
The G11 has less megapixels on its sensor than its predecessor, the G10. The series went from 14.7MP down to 10MP, therefore satisfying the needs of photographers who wanted cleaner images. Further, with the coupling of the DIGIC 4 engine there should be less of a problem with the processing of the image noise in the your photos. One poster in the DPReview forums (via 1001 Noisy Cameras) made a connection that there may be a Sony sensor of some sort inside the body of this little digicam.

This move is one that was appreciated by Nikonians when Nikon released cameras like the D300, D300s, D700 and the D3. They kept the resolution to a decent sized while ensuring that image quality remained paramount. Canon is apparently taking the same route with some of their cameras and we wonder if we will see this with the upcoming/rumored 60D and 7D.
Clearly the law of diminishing returns applies to camera sensors, in a big way. Leave the high MP to the thickies and dimwits and concentrate on the important stuff with the people who know what they are doing.

With that weight of evidence. Case dismissed. The court finds in favour of a lower MP/Sensor size ratio.

http://www.photographybay.com/2009/0...powershot-g11/

  #44  
Old 06-09-2009, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Well, if the 3mpix camphone is enough for you the 12mpix can surely set it to shoot 3mpix picture on the camera setting... you just makin this simple thing so complicated.. ofcourse 12mpix camphone as compared 3mpix camphone like N93 has a huge gap in image quality. . . . and i em so stupid to explain that just like you all. . ,have a great stupid nonsense conversation. . .
You look stupid for your silly post and for your appalling literacy.

  #45  
Old 06-09-2009, 06:50 PM
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Just curious...

Let's say Nokia brings out an 'N86 12MP' tomorrow (with all the quality optics the 8MP has).

Wouldn't anyone be crying? Would anyone seriously say 'ummmm no, it's just too much, give me the 8MP please?'
 

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