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  #46  
Old 25-07-2007, 09:41 AM
bartmanekul bartmanekul is offline
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*sigh*

I was more on about calling the company names, but nm. And yes, I know hits= money, but you still have no proof of them lying. 'Tens of thousands of hits' might just be an overestimate dont you think?

Back on topic, almost, heres the navigon page of compatibility. http://www.navigon.com/site/uk/en/mo.../compatibility

Interestingly, they support a much larger range of phones than tomtom. They assure me the 6110 and N95 will be supported in August/September.

I have yet to see if they will have 7 digit postcode support, although I cant see them not.

I found navigon because I was reading a GPS article on the register, and apperently, navigon have the second biggest market share, second to only tomtom. Suprised me to say the least, as navigon isnt as well known as navman, route66 etc.

And you get the whole of europe for £70 for a software only download. Sadly, I cant find many reviews of it.

Dont spose anyone here has used it (the latest version)?

Last edited by bartmanekul; 25-07-2007 at 10:08 AM.

  #47  
Old 25-07-2007, 10:38 AM
sbc sbc is offline
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2.400+ hits already on this thread. How many of these visitors do you think check 'their' site often for the patch? Besides, I believe there is something called Google, which also might provide a hit or two? In case you bother to try googling for a N95 TT patch, you'll notice your beloved company now are amongst the top 10 searches. Have you any idea of the value of this? So stop your silly 'sigh' remarks.

  #48  
Old 25-07-2007, 10:47 AM
autopilot autopilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbc View Post
What do you mean I've got it completely wrong? That's exactly (!) what I am saying. That TT will gain from waiting until version 7 is ready...???
Indeed, we were making the same point. But my point was that there was a good reason that TomTom had got them to hold off with the patch.

Whats also wrong with advertising something on a website before it's released to generate interest before it's avalable? everyone does this all the time. What i don't take issue with is the wording "Available now" as even if it does exist it's clearly not available. "Coming soon" would be more honest (if it's real).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbc View Post
I present the complicated version, whereas a few of you just 'want to believe', yet it is more complicated than I think?
Oh dear, i was not implying your were somehow being thick, are your reaction would indicate. Just that there might be stuff going on that you or i don't know about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbc View Post

@paultheman
Sorry, but this is your first posting and you so clearly registered (on july 24) just to type that message. What are the odds that you, a new guy here, just happened to wander in to the store we are talking about on the right day and seeing what we all want to see, then come by here, again on exactly the right day?
That's what this is all about. Thinking twice before accepting whatever people tells you. Considering the odds and so on, and it doesn't make this thing look very good.
Well said. It's quite obvious that 'paul' is from GPSmidlands IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbc View Post
Name one (1) instance where an unknown 3. party company (not even a software developer!) has created a patch for a world renowned piece of software and I'll tip my hat to you.
A) Have you actually spent anytime looking at there site? They quite clearly advertise and have case studies from there software development. Ok, there is a chance that could be a hoax too. But how do you know?

B) Are you a software developer? I was for 4 years, plenty of work get submitted to large firms and even by individuals on a daily basis. Sometime they would even listen to you unless you have some working come for them to test. Many of the Windows Security updates have been submitted by small firms. Many companies often create there own patch for software they rely on. Our firm made changes to Microsoft server which eventually was approved my MS and got use by other firms. I have no doubt that it's happened many times, most times it probably never becomes public.

C) Point B above is a moot point, as it seem the no changes were made to tomtom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbc View Post
@bartmanekul and others
"No reason whatsoever" to call this company creepy? If lying to gain business isn't creepy, then what is?
Hang on here.... you say you could be wrong and it's just speculation (which it is) then you say they are definatly lying. Make you mind up and stop being a hypocrite. You don't sound like sound one speculating, you are clearly just say it's a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbc View Post
Look, I have been in discussions like this a million times. Like someone claiming to have WM5 for a 2003SE device and people licking his @ss for the prospect of getting what they so dearly want. Where those thinking twice before jumping on the wagon are flamed to h@ll in a breadbasket, because who are they to insult the 'prophet'? Yet this almost NEVER turns out good. There's a reason for the saying 'if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is', you know...
Who is licking ass? prophet!!! what did you get that shit from? If we were really talking about the prophet we would have had our head cut off by now! (that's a joke). Please justify that claim you arrogant twat. We are also very sceptical. Obviously you can't be bother to actually properly read what anyone says because it's clearly not as important as what you say. Thats complete bollocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbc View Post
I am not waisting any more time on this...
Good, as you have nothing useful to say it seems. Bye. Because you are a complete dick, arrogant and self opinionated. We have all be sceptical and challenged the claim, yet somehow YOU KNOW the truth and we are all stupid for not 100% believing your version and should not be allowed to talk about it on this 'bandwagon' lol.

And the "too good to be true..." is often right, but not always. I could give a good example of something that i got for free this morning. If you base all your you life on that you will miss out on many opportunities. That old saying (which people usually say just to sound clever and down to earth) can be a self fulfilling prophecy. It certainly indicates your miserable attitude.

Sorry it upsets you that other people like to sit on the fence and have a sensible discussion about something that may or may not be true. Really you are just pissed that we were being sceptical, yet still challenged you over calling the "creepy" and "liars" with no more proof or insight than anyone else. You completely fail to see that we piratically totally agree, just that we don' make public insults (potentially damaging ones) about people we know nothing about based on an (possibly sound) theory.

I edge on the side that it's true (not by a huge margin mind), you are almost completely sure it's not. Thats cool - so why could we have not had a simple discussion based on that without you making it personal?

Yes you have wound me up. Have a biscuit. You know what, i thought for a while it might be a traffic generating scam. But you are so arrogant in the way you make your points, i find you slightly creepy.

Last edited by autopilot; 25-07-2007 at 11:14 AM.

  #49  
Old 25-07-2007, 10:49 AM
bartmanekul bartmanekul is offline
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Christo, grow up will you? Its not my 'beloved' company. I dont know how many more times you want me to say I dont think the patch is real. That doesnt mean I cant follow what happens and ask about it, nor does it stop me from discussing it.

My point - and this is the last time Im saying this - is that its unreasonable to call a company names until you have proof. You can voice your opinions all you like, and Im sure you can get away with calling them creepy, but it just makes you look like the idiot.

You may well be right (theres other reasons I suspect it not to be true which I wont say), but again, until you have proof your just shooting your mouth off.

Hell, you havent even dealt with this company. Feel free to correct me on that, although Im expecting proof.

You may have been on forums for a decade (allegedly - wheres the proof!), but you obviously havent learnt anything about manners.

Last edited by bartmanekul; 25-07-2007 at 10:51 AM.

  #50  
Old 25-07-2007, 11:01 AM
sbc sbc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by from 'their' site
Nokia N95 Patch to Use Internal Receiver with TomTom Software
Available Now !!!
And no patch being available would make them liars to most ppl, I believe.

Btw@autopilot
Yes, I have been doing software for quite a few years. Been working for a subcontractor doing soft and localization. Most likely you have a few items on your pc, where I was part of the creation process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by autopilot
Who is licking ass? Please justify that claim you arrogant twat.
And just for that remark, I lost ALL sympathy for you! If you were able to read, I was talking about an episode which happened years ago, you even quoted me yourself!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBC
someone claiming to have WM5 for a 2003SE device and people licking his @ss

  #51  
Old 25-07-2007, 11:13 AM
dez_borders dez_borders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartmanekul View Post

I have yet to see if they will have 7 digit postcode support, although I cant see them not.
Tom Tom have had 7-digit postcodes since TT5, as a seperate download. I assume it's automatically installed as part of TT6.
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  #52  
Old 25-07-2007, 11:14 AM
bartmanekul bartmanekul is offline
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His point, is that your inferring the same here, whereas everyone is sceptical and not licking anyones ass.

A very good point with them still having that text up there.

Im not going to argue, autopilot is right, your too self opinionated. Ive seen hundreads of people like you on forums, and once they have something in their head, theres no point arguing.

So I respectfully suggest that unless you have anything *useful* to contribute about this patch, other than saying what we all suspect anyway - its fake -, dont say anything at all.

We wont agree with you, you wont agree with us (even though we suspect the same thing), so lets leave it lie.


@ Dez: I was on about navigon when I said that. I know about TT5, as Ive got it :P

  #53  
Old 25-07-2007, 11:17 AM
dez_borders dez_borders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbc View Post
And no patch being available would make them liars to most ppl, I believe.

Btw@autopilot
Yes, I have been doing software for quite a few years. Been working for a subcontractor doing soft and localization. Most likely you have a few items on your pc, where I was part of the creation process.

And just for that remark, I lost ALL sympathy for you! If you were able to read, I was talking about an episode which happened years ago, you even quoted me yourself!
EVERYONE! Count to 10 and calm down.

If the patch is NOT available on Monday we can slag off gpsmidlands.
If the patch IS available on Monday we can all download it free of charge.

How does that sound? If there's a moderator in these forums can he request we stop slagging each other off in this thread, or at least do it with private messages.
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  #54  
Old 25-07-2007, 11:25 AM
autopilot autopilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbc View Post
And just for that remark, I lost ALL sympathy for you! If you were able to read, I was talking about an episode which happened years ago, you even quoted me yourself!
Come on now, it seemed quite obvious you were implying the same of us. If genuinely not, then i take it back

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartmanekul View Post
You may have been on forums for a decade (allegedly - wheres the proof!), but you obviously havent learnt anything about manners.
Well said. I was using the original bulletin board systems some 15-20 years ago, big deal, but if sbc want his dick length competition, there you go.

Anyway, i apologise to all for getting so sound up back there. My manours clearly departed for a while. Was a little OTT in all fairness. Damn giving up smoking!!!

Last edited by autopilot; 25-07-2007 at 11:35 AM.

  #55  
Old 25-07-2007, 11:33 AM
sbc sbc is offline
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@autopilot
There were no boards 20 years ago. We were on UseNet back then.

@dez_borders
You are right, again!

The site does tell us on the front page they have the patch but when asked, they don't. Then they said wednesday, but that didn't happen either. Now monday? Anyway, I am not here about the patch anymore. I am here for 1-2 'reasons', since some ppl have upped this to a personal level. I know some like to act tough behind the screen, but since I am somewhat bigger in physical size than most, I am not used to ppl behaving like that IRL. So when they up the ante, I reply.

Oh, and don't worry, dez_borders. I did report autopilot's posting #48 to the mods. That one was over the top.

  #56  
Old 25-07-2007, 11:42 AM
pa49 pa49 is offline
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Mmmmm! All very interesting, all very hot under the collar!
Here's my "take". Please feel free to pick holes, disagree and generally pull my thinking apart cos you guys slay me
Is the GPS chip a proprietory chip licenced to Nokia?
Is the operation of the N95 GPS dependant on an API developed by Nokia?
Have they released it for general use?
Could this be the reason we haven't seen any official 3rd party GPS software use internal chipset?
It should be possible to write a control routine in order to address the internal ports and therefore the GPS chipset! But, what licence infringement would that require? TomTom's? Nokias? And don't forget we are always told that we don't own the software only that we purchase a licence to use it!!!!!!!!
It should also be theretically possible to "hack" an API, but, I know its not easy. I remember a Motorola phone that had a GPS chip in it but Motorola would not release the API to allow developer access! There was shouting for ages about this. I don't know what happened because I sold the phone but Motorola weren't bothered about this and I don't think that TomTom or Nokia are either!
We have heard it all before.
Company promises something great for immediate release, lots of hype, everyone gets excited, much interest generated, release put back, more hype, put back again and again etc. (or it even disappears all together).
Why it could almost be Microsoft, Apple "............................" insert your favourite manufacturer!
So why does the older version of Route66 work on the internal port of the N95?
I find this very interesting! Could be that the development API was written by Route66 for Nokia and tested with their chipset and the Route 66 software before they released it with Nokia Maps. Never meant to get out into the wild as such; it just happened!
Route 66 obviously know how to make their software work with the N95, but, they haven't implemented it's use with their current version. That seems a little odd and to me points to a block on all dev by Nokia!
They want you signed up for their service first although I doubt that they will be able to hold out for long.
Can any developer confirm that Nokia have/haven't released the API and that this isn't all their fault?

  #57  
Old 25-07-2007, 11:54 AM
autopilot autopilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pa49 View Post
Could this be the reason we haven't seen any official 3rd party GPS software use internal chipset?
Plenty do mate. Copilot, Viewranger, mobile Google maps, to name just a few.

As for the API questions, i'm not sure it's all that complicated really. I'm not a mobile developer, i'm possibly wrong here, but from what i know it's just a case of the software 'listening' to the port that the standardised GPS data (used by all GPS systems) is being transmitted on. In essence, the software does not know the difference between bluetooth or internal, it's just need to be told to look at, for example, port 0027 or 0041 or whatever. Using the Nokia's GPS should be a piece of cake for any Symbian developer and this has been shown by the number of 'home brew' like programs that already use the GPS. Would made the GPS chipset (i heard something to do with Toshiba) should be irrelevant. Thats why all brands of bluetooth GPS units 'just work' without any extra software/drivers. The GPS application does not need to interact that deeply with the hardware.

Last edited by autopilot; 25-07-2007 at 12:12 PM.
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  #58  
Old 25-07-2007, 12:01 PM
sbc sbc is offline
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@pa49
Well, finally there has been an official release of a huge N95 GPS program. Route 66 takes the honours Following link contains Dutch language, but even if you don't understand that, you can always look at the pictures

http://www.pdashop.nl/product/42426/...e-n95-e90.html

I believe everyone is entitled to make software accessing the GPS port. And that's the important thing here: just the port transmitting the GPS data. So to make TT access the N95 GPS port, you'd either have to make it look for other ports than the BT ports, or redirect the GPS port data into what may look like a BT port to TT. The first option is only available to TT (or so I believe) due to software licenses, the second option have already been tried, and unfortunately it failed. But who knows what a good programmer can do?

A third option would be to manually patch the TT program to look directly at the N95 GPS port. That can be done by someone with the right knowledge, but it would be illegal as TT would never accept that. Maybe this is what happened to the 7.3.468 version of R66?

  #59  
Old 25-07-2007, 12:18 PM
autopilot autopilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbc View Post
@pa49
Well, finally there has been an official release of a huge N95 GPS program. Route 66 takes the honours Following link contains Dutch language, but even if you don't understand that, you can always look at the pictures
Actually, R66 was not the first. Copilot (far better and almost as good as tomtom) was offcially released a few weeks ago. So was Viewranger and others, like mobile google maps.

R66 was quite late really

  #60  
Old 25-07-2007, 12:20 PM
bartmanekul bartmanekul is offline
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Does that mean you have tried it? Ive been looking for someone who has tried copilot, and I mean properly tried it.

If you have, pleeaasseee could you give me a review on how it was, especially the postcodes and routing?
 

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