All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

  #16  
Old 15-06-2009, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Morpheus, read your post again and then find a dictionary (Nokia phones have them) and look up the word 'hypocrite'.

You are speaking for yourself and a few others, but you have gone as far overboard in one direction as you say AAS has in another.

It's not like these guys are Nokia exclusive. Check out www.allaboutiphone.net/
Ok brave words for an anonymous post. Google 'keyboard brave'.
And yes, I am speaking for myself and you can interpret my posts as incendary but that's what I think it takes to kick AAS out of the 'softly softly don't rock the boat' state I think it is in. I visit AAS and if AAS represented The Symbian world in relation (and acknowledged) the wider developments in the mobile industry that'd be something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Who really cares! Stop all your bitching and go read another column somewhere else on the net if you don't like what you read here. I'm sure the AAS guys don't need your posts which are boardering on being flames for the time they invest in this site! So go on get on your bike and don't come back!
More strong words for another anonymous post. The fact that I do give a damn about this site and it's direction and the impetus for me to post. Don't agree with me - fine.

The pair of you - at least stand up and be counted.

  #17  
Old 15-06-2009, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
Thank you for your informative post. I can easily afford the N97 - don't worry about that. But I won't buy it. And no, I am not an Apple fanboy, I don't own any Apple products.

Not everyone who thinks the N97 is an inferior product is an Apple fanboy. Get it?

What me and others would love from this site is objective reporting. Not advertisments for Nokia. That's all.
I understand where you're coming from arthur. After re-reading my first post, I realized that I may have came off a little too aggressive.

My point is, maybe it isnt so black and white. The n97 has its short comings but I wouldnt nearly go as far as to completely dismiss it. I hope nokia embraces the n97's form factor for future models as I think its where the biggest selling point lies. The active homescreen may not be ground breaking, but I can already see myself using it.

  #18  
Old 15-06-2009, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by phonophiliac View Post
... To come to a site that is as established as AAS, with editors as respected throughout the industry as those on AAS, and lambaste all of them with personal attacks, throwing around phrases like "circle jerk", is embarrassing. Seriously, the people throwing around personal attacks should be embarrassed.

Get a grip. Step away from the keyboard. Go for a walk. Relax. You’re embarrassing yourself on the internet, and that’s saying something.

Rock on Rafe (you’re more patient than I’d ever be), Steve and Ewan.

-Phono
Phono, I apologise if you confuse 'circle jerk' as a term of amusement rather than it's literal sense. I sincerely meant the former and have never suggested a Psion, as multi-facted a device as it is, has a place to thicken or engorge.

However I do feel no sense of embarassment whatsoever and infact, excitement at playing a part it what has become a stimulating debate.

Last edited by morpheus2702; 15-06-2009 at 11:45 PM.

  #19  
Old 15-06-2009, 09:49 PM
architengi architengi is offline
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Exclamation

About the lies and the one-sied view of BoyGeniusReport, read these thread and read the comments of the users about the BGR review:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29564

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/...ge-3/#comments


* alvin Said:
* Boy Genius you call this dribble a review? Nothing but biasness and hate in this review.
</
* I have never read a more incomplete , hateful and dishonest review such as the one on this phone.


Andrew Said:
* BGR have seriously undermined their credibility with this sketchy, flippant, frat boyish “review”. The author was so blatantly predisposed to trashing the device

Hundresds of comments on BGR site say that BGR review is hateful.

  #20  
Old 15-06-2009, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus2702 View Post
Rafe, thanks for your response on this. As you know, I've been pretty vocal in my opinions for over a year now and you've taken a lot of what's been said on board, but let's look at AAS and what it's become in my own opinion:

Rafe - you are the professional apologist for the site. Yes, you may have been critical when the Ovi store was launched, but from what has appeared on the site in due course, that criticism has withered to a mild whimper. Acceptable if Ovi Store had come on leaps and bounds, but it hasn't, end of. The world may have changed and the focus maybe more software centric but it is still devices that are the focus of a phone fan.

Steve - Psion, Xenon flashes and Psions. On and on, repeated ad naseum. And posting totally biased, subjective 'articles' opinion pieces that are rarely responded to (Rafe normally steps into the breach) and an inability to accept when the world is turning the other way (remember that 'resistive screens have their place' article)?

Ewan - the Devil's Advocate whose humour just passes straight over the heads of Rafe and Steve. Knows a lot about NGage/Ovi Gaming but honestly, who is actively fascinated by that car crash? Oh, will join Steve in a circle jerk when Psion is mentioned.

So what do we have? A mix of personalities and knowledge to call Nokia to book when they have it wrong and shout out 'BUY THIS' when they have it right? Nope - 'I agree, I agree and I agree' with all the teeth of a meeting of parish vicars!

When are we going to see...?

a) No one giving a flying f*** that Nokia is releasing more handsets for the emerging markets and getting down to the real business of reviewing and testing the sexy, high-spec and latest releases in the Symbian world. If Symbian is dumbing down, say it loud, say it proud and maybe think about 'All About N Series' for us not into the latest Nokia 53xx device?

b) Pointing the finger and say 'you are talking out your a***' when Nokia or one of the team comes up with something so obviously clutching at straws or waxing lyrical about technology from 1993, instead of 'I agree with you' then departing off on a tangent in the direction of Jupiter?

c) An end to the endless reptiton of recent months - witness N82, Xenon flashes, 5800 hero worship, evangelical hope in the N97/Ovi as the second coming, non-acknowledgement of the iPhone as a game changer and even Android? I'll buy you a buzzer to hit everytime one of the aforementioned words is mentioned!

d) An end to the Nokia-centric view of the world? Just look at the past week - the iPhone 3GS, the Palm Pre and the N97 launched. Unless your browser only circumnavigates Symbian related websites, it must have dawned on you that the iPhone 3GS and the Pre have generated far more column inches than the Nokia N97 could ever hope to muster. Sure, the Apple Acolytes have their numbers, but the Pre... Surely this must spark of a question, a suspision, a nagging doubt that Nokia is not the pre-eminent force it was at the cutting edge? And if Nokia isn't at the cutting edge any more with it's focus on mid-range S60 devices, then collectively admit it (refer to a) above).

e) Get some new blood on board to stir things up who doesn't buy into the current AAS status quo.

I'm done, 'nuff said!
Well said mate, i was going to add few words too but after reading your post i've change my mind, 'nuff said!
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  #21  
Old 15-06-2009, 10:38 PM
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Feedback from news post comment thread

Thread for further discussion / feedback on AAS editorial stance ct.
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  #22  
Old 15-06-2009, 10:44 PM
Rauha Rauha is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus2702 View Post

a) No one giving a flying f*** that Nokia is releasing more handsets for the emerging markets and getting down to the real business of reviewing and testing the sexy, high-spec and latest releases in the Symbian world. If Symbian is dumbing down, say it loud, say it proud and maybe think about 'All About N Series' for us not into the latest Nokia 53xx device?
The site is called Allaboutsymbian, not AllaboutStuffThatmorpheus2702ISInterestedAbout. What's so wrong about writing about cheaper models anyway? Your attitude is disgustingly elitist. Plenty of people in both 1st and 3rd world can't afford highend models or aren't even interested to spend that much money on on their phones. The web is full of uber-geek sites for pixelcounters and hertzlovers. I like the fact that AAS really is allaboutsymbian.



Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus2702 View Post

b) Pointing the finger and say 'you are talking out your a***' when Nokia or one of the team comes up with something so obviously clutching at straws or waxing lyrical about technology from 1993, instead of 'I agree with you' then departing off on a tangent in the direction of Jupiter?
Textbook example of keyboard angst. You are clearly very angry and spew lot of bile. Hard to parse what you are trying to say here.



Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus2702 View Post

c) non-acknowledgement of the iPhone as a game changer and even Android? I'll buy you a buzzer to hit everytime one of the aforementioned words is mentioned!
iPhone is contantly mentioned and discussed on AAS.

Even the article that got you so riled up mentions iPhone 25 times. There's gotta be lot of buzzing going around your flat tonight!

Apple’s industry shocking iPhone

I think the iPhone is pretty much the reigning king – in use it appears light years ahead of anything else, at least in terms of the user interface.


All from the article. Yeah, no mention of iPhone as game chager.


Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus2702 View Post
d) An end to the Nokia-centric view of the world?
How could site called Allaboutsymbian not have Nokia-centric view? AAS is not general techsite. Nokia is monumental to Symbian world, and any site concentrating on Symbian is by default bound to be Nokia centric.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus2702 View Post
More strong words for another anonymous post.
Did your parents really name you morpheus 2702? Pretty much everyone is anonymous on the web. As if posting angry rant with Avatar name is somekind of show of character.

Chill out, and spen less time on-line if it gets you this angry.

Last edited by Rauha; 15-06-2009 at 10:46 PM.

  #23  
Old 15-06-2009, 11:05 PM
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Note: I moved the comments / feedback on AAS direction and editorial to a separate thread to try and clear things up (and keep things on topic-ish).

To address a few points that have been raised:

Omnia HD coverage - we publish a detailed preview in three parts - start here - http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/revie...view_I8910.php. We're still waiting on a review unit, until that time there's a limit to what we can do. By contrast we do have an N97 review unit (as of last week) so....

Ovi Store - a case of giving it time surely. This won't just get fixed in a few weeks. We have continued to comment (e.g. disappearing content items story). A lot of the stability issues have gone now though - store performance is much improved. And that's a big thing. The actual purchase and download works well (silent install in the background for most items), though of course re-downloads is another issue... Yes more content is needed, but that's a wider issue of Symbian development (signing, QA, tools, visibility) as much as it is an Ovi Store specific issue.

morpheus2702:

Thanks for taking the time to write some detailed feedback. I do listen to all feedback, but hopefully people understand that does mean I will act on all of it. Feedback tends to be contradictory (some want more of this, others less etc.) I have to balance that out and make decisions accordingly.

In editorial direction there's a balancing act and its never going to be possibly to keep everyone happy. Other factors that go into this are commercial realities (what's popular - review of high end devices get the most traffic) and, to an extent, what the various writers want to write about (and areas of expertise).

We try and cover everything Symbian - hence the coverage of mid tier devices. Incidentally you'll probably see more of this going forward, partly because there are more devices, and partly because I feel its an important area to cover (and one that gets little attention elsewhere).

Prior to June there has been some repetition (and we do try and avoid it), but its also partly about device release cycles. There just hasn't been very much in the first 6 months of 2009. 5800 was a notable exception (and E75) both of these have been producing the most popular content on the site in the last few months. The second half is going to be busier in device terms I think. That I think AAS does a good job producing unique content compared to other sites in comparable mobile niches.

Given the sites name we do focus on Symbian, but you'll also see comparisons with other devices. This is an area where we could improve, but there's also a time / resource issue. One of the areas where we try and do more of this is the Podcast. I'd be interested in comments on the best way to do this.

So yes I'll take this on board, but balance it against other feedback we get.

And yes we all have our own foibles. It's really our own personalities and characters coming across. I really am trying to fence site less (and be less of an apologist), but I tend to think things through on both sides, comment a bit on both and hope other people find it useful in their own thinking. The analysis itself, pointing why something is the way it is, is often more valuable that the end opinion.

I can't speak for the other writers, but I will defend them. They do a fantastic job creating content day after day (not as easy as you might imagine). I don't agree with them all the time [QVGA screens and camera flashes are recent examples] (there's a lot of back channel chat), but I do believe the many voices model works best.

CSC - yes I rather enjoyed that video when I first saw it.

I would ask people to be as civil as possible (whether giving feedback or replying to others feedback). Everyone is entitled to their own view, but so is everyone else! Courtesy and patience cost nothing.
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  #24  
Old 15-06-2009, 11:14 PM
Williamoni Williamoni is offline
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Harsh, guys, and mostly very unfair.

In my opinion the mainstays of AAS all do an excellent job. Rafe specialises in market analysis, Steve specialises in multimedia, Ewan does his video blogging and gaming etc and throws in a bit of comedy.

If a new Nokia device doesn't cut the mustard I reckon you can rely on the guys to say so.

What you get from them is measured, sensible comment.

So what if Steve likes xenon flashes, so what if he still loves his Psions? That's up to him. Give the guys a break for goodness sake.

I agree that Nokia need to up their game. I'm not particularly excited by the N97, the N96 also wasn't much to write home about, arguably only the 5800 has been a success in the last eighteen months or so. Perhaps this has contributed to some frustration with some of us.

  #25  
Old 15-06-2009, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha View Post
The site is called Allaboutsymbian, not AllaboutStuffThatmorpheus2702ISInterestedAbout. What's so wrong about writing about cheaper models anyway? Your attitude is disgustingly elitist. Plenty of people in both 1st and 3rd world can't afford highend models or aren't even interested to spend that much money on on their phones. The web is full of uber-geek sites for pixelcounters and hertzlovers. I like the fact that AAS really is allaboutsymbian.
All About Symbian? Really? How much coverage on the Omnia HD compared to the N97 or 5800? In the same way I buy a car magazine to read about the latest and greatest, an article of changing an oil filter on a 1982 Ford Escort doesn't thrill me. If that makes me disgusting elitist, so be it.

Quote:
Textbook example of keyboard angst. You are clearly very angry and spew lot of bile. Hard to parse what you are trying to say here.
And you describe me as elitist, spouting cliched pop psychology straight from a coffee-table book? One man's bile is another man's opinion, so sorry for offending your delicate sensibilities.

Quote:
iPhone is contantly mentioned and discussed on AAS. Even the article that got you so riled up mentions iPhone 25 times. There's gotta be lot of buzzing going around your flat tonight! Apple’s industry shocking iPhone I think the iPhone is pretty much the reigning king – in use it appears light years ahead of anything else, at least in terms of the user interface.

All from the article. Yeah, no mention of iPhone as game chager.
But it didn't affect the end conclusion of the article, did it, just as I guessed at in my very first post on my thread? Fill a paragraph with superlatives on the iPhone yet strangely (or not) the Nokia device magically is the one you should choose...


Quote:
How could site called Allaboutsymbian not have Nokia-centric view? AAS is not general techsite. Nokia is monumental to Symbian world, and any site concentrating on Symbian is by default bound to be Nokia centric.
OK does Nokia-biased work better for you?

Quote:
Did your parents really name you morpheus 2702? Pretty much everyone is anonymous on the web. As if posting angry rant with Avatar name is somekind of show of character.
Frankly, yes. It shows that rather than taking pop shots bathed in the blanket on anonimity I'll stand by what I post, right or wrong.

Quote:
Chill out, and spen less time on-line if it gets you this angry.
Thanks for the advice, I'll take it under advisement. What makes you think I'm angry? I'm as relaxed as a sloth on morphine. Don't confuse anger with an opinion strongly expressed.

  #26  
Old 16-06-2009, 01:00 AM
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Before this article, I had never heard of Justin Berkovi. From the link at the bottom of the page, I gather he is the (founding? only?) member of a marketing-for-hire company. Call me cynical, but a marketing-for-hire guy writing an opinion piece proclaiming the N97 the perfect phone sounds like Nokia astroturf to me.
Why was this article published? What are the AAS policies for external contributions? If I wrote and submitted an article describing my personal search for the perfect phone (spoiler alert: it's not the N97, not by a long shot), would Rafe publish it on this site?

  #27  
Old 16-06-2009, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by morpheus2702 View Post
As you know, I've been pretty vocal in my opinions for over a year now
With the greatest respect Morpheus2702 if you disagree so much with what is written on this site why have you been visiting over the past year? Just move on, find other sites, stop coming somewhere that winds you up so much!

I feel the personal comments about the sites authors were a step too far. Debate, disagreement, alternative points of view bring a site alive, however this should be within the boundaries of remembering whose house you are in. You are not a customer here, you dont pay a subscription with an expectancy of a particular level of service. Even if the content on AAS was entirely Nokia Fanboy stuff (which in my opinion it is not), so what? Its their site, they can think or say what they like.

You are, of course, always welcome to give up huge amounts of your time and start your own editorial site to put the world straight but you run the risk of some faceless, anonymous person arriving day after day and slagging you off in your own house! I am of course using house as a metaphor for site ;-)
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Last edited by PaulyLaw; 16-06-2009 at 08:22 AM.

  #28  
Old 16-06-2009, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvirga View Post
Before this article, I had never heard of Justin Berkovi. From the link at the bottom of the page, I gather he is the (founding? only?) member of a marketing-for-hire company. Call me cynical, but a marketing-for-hire guy writing an opinion piece proclaiming the N97 the perfect phone sounds like Nokia astroturf to me.
Why was this article published? What are the AAS policies for external contributions? If I wrote and submitted an article describing my personal search for the perfect phone (spoiler alert: it's not the N97, not by a long shot), would Rafe publish it on this site?
Justin's piece was his own personal search and not anything to do with his professional activities. And yes, ANYONE is welcome to submit a similar piece with their own thoughts. If it's well written then it stands a good chance of being published.
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  #29  
Old 16-06-2009, 08:45 AM
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This is so funny... so if I praise the N97, i am biased in favour of Nokia, if I bash it, I am biased against Nokia and if i give for and against views equally, I am a hopeless cowardly fence sitter. You just can't win!

AAS publishes an article (NOT a review may I remind everybody) favouring N97 and some people bash it. BGR publishes a review bashing the N97 and there are also some people who bash it too. Again, you just can't win, can you?! Hahaha!

And, morpheus, though I know you gonna bash me too for this (since you seem to be bashing everyone and everything here), I still gotta say that it seems that you like the Iphone very very much and you couldn't seem to stand another person saying that despite the Iphone being what it is, that guy still likes the N97 over the Iphone. You an Iphone fanboy too? (Now, people, prepare for some fireworks from this guy aimed at me at point blank range...)

However, my point is this, so what if one likes the N97 more? So what if one likes the Iphone more? So what? If you don't like the N97, bash it by all means but no need to bash the author who wrote about it or the website which published it. Similarly, if you don't like the Iphone or whichever other phone, bash it by all means but don't go bashing the people who actually likes the Iphone or whichever other phone it is. Some like blondes and some like brunettes, its all very personal and very very subjective, just try to remember that!

  #30  
Old 16-06-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulyLaw View Post
With the greatest respect Morpheus2702 if you disagree so much with what is written on this site why have you been visiting over the past year? Just move on, find other sites, stop coming somewhere that winds you up so much!
With the greatest respect Pauly, I've been a member on AAS for around 5 years. It's not that I disagree with every single iota of what is written here - I'd say that 50% is great stuff, 30% of it is grey noise that doesn't phase me one way or another and the 20% is the stuff like the opinion piece that sparked this whole discussion.

Quote:
I feel the personal comments about the sites authors were a step too far. Debate, disagreement, alternative points of view bring a site alive, however this should be within the boundaries of remembering whose house you are in. You are not a customer here, you dont pay a subscription with an expectancy of a particular level of service. Even if the content on AAS was entirely Nokia Fanboy stuff (which in my opinion it is not), so what? Its their site, they can think or say what they like.
You are absolutely right, I'm not a paying customer so am owed absolutely nothing by Rafe, Steve or Ewan. You site 'Debate, disagreement, alternative points of view bring a site alive' which hits the nail on the head for me - it is the very lack of these things, the constant agreement, the continual acceptance and excuse making for substandard products and services from Nokia that has made me vocal.

Quote:
You are, of course, always welcome to give up huge amounts of your time and start your own editorial site to put the world straight but you run the risk of some faceless, anonymous person arriving day after day and slagging you off in your own house! I am of course using house as a metaphor for site ;-)
I do not question the time and effort the team puts in to run the site and freely admit it is something I could never do. But does that mean that the site should not entertain feedback - whether you term that criticism or 'slagging off'? Are the masses at the gates of AAS on a daily basis throwing rotten fruit? No, I don't think so. But post a provocative opinion piece, you have to expect a reaction!
 

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