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  #16  
Old 30-08-2010, 01:08 PM
ClockworkZombie ClockworkZombie is offline
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Do not forget system updates

The one thing more likely to send me to iPhone and not Symbian/ Maemo for my next phone is the handset firmware updates coming to the user at the mercy of the carrier they purchased the phone from. I wish Nokia could do the same thing.

I used the Nokia AU site to try and find prices for a new phone, just to check how much I would need when I do upgrade in six months time perhaps and I could not find a way on the site to buy an unlocked unbranded phone from Nokia AU so I did not end at the mercy of some indifferent carrier.

As for third party apps I download myself, I usually only look for an update for symbian apps if I have a problem. For my iPad I regularly check for updates and download them to my computer then update the device through iTunes when I next sync it.

I am more willing to update my Apple app store stuff due to the simplicity of the process. I have had issues in the past with symbian apps not installing correctly and needing to install a second time to get it right.

  #17  
Old 30-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Biggles Biggles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brendand View Post
@Biggles,

Sorry, you're wrong. The only way to update binaries is through the software-install mechanism. Updates need to be signed as well. Taking updates from a developers server is no more or less dangerous than taking an app from there in the first place.
Assuming that all applications are signed. A high proportion of Symbian users hack their phones to install unsigned apps, including ones that update themselves.

  #18  
Old 30-08-2010, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Biggles View Post
A high proportion of Symbian users hack their phones to install unsigned apps
Might be a high proportion in certain circles but out of all Symbian users I bet that the proportion is very small.

  #19  
Old 30-08-2010, 01:57 PM
Dubito Dubito is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles View Post
Assuming that all applications are signed. A high proportion of Symbian users hack their phones to install unsigned apps, including ones that update themselves.
This is getting slightly sideways, but in my opinion the whole Symbian Signed process is a golden example of the way in which security regimes become self-defeating because they aggravate users into circumventing them.

There are several other reasons why people hack Symbian phones, but circumventing the whole infuriating signing process for cool and powerful apps from developers too low-key or frustrated to sign themselves is definitely at the top of the list.

Just look at how popular jailbreaking is on the iPhone, as well.

  #20  
Old 30-08-2010, 02:21 PM
kmmbd kmmbd is offline
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@ Biggles,
Well, installing an unsigned update on a hacked phone can be as safe as downloading updates from an appstore if you follow the 2 golden rules:
1. Don't be the first one to update. First, let others in the symbian underground scene (or hacker communities if you insist!) try the update. If they show a green signal, you're good to go. And normally this 'testing' process takes a few hours, so its no big deal.
2. Always keep a backup of important data. In this way, even if you mess things up, you're only a hard-reset (and an hour or two) away from recuperating. This is more of a last resort, but by following rule 1 carefully you can almost negate this possibility.
And for an example of safe unsigned apps, look no further, the HX firmwares are the best example. They are not apps, but they are theoretically able to do much harm as they get into the system core. Yet, they are 100% safe. Back to the topic, Google maps also notifies of an update automatically. Count it in.

  #21  
Old 30-08-2010, 02:21 PM
brendand brendand is offline
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@Biggles - as I said, it's no more or less dangerous. If you hack your phone to install unsigned apps then you're explicitly inviting anything and everything on to your phone. Any unwanted consequences are your own problem and while I understand hacking devices is part of the smartphone culture, no attention should be given to it when formulating application deployment strategies.

Also, I'm quite sure you're overestimating the prevelance of that practice anyway - regardless of the operating system in question. It's more common amongst iOS users I would say due to the huge amount of restriction Apple place on the system.

  #22  
Old 30-08-2010, 02:57 PM
buster buster is offline
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Looking at the apps on my E90, I don't think any of them check for updates automatically. So, if it's a toss-up between having centralised control a la Apple with semi-automated update checking or having the checking done on an ad hoc basis by individual developers, with the result that most apps remain un-updated without a lot of checking, I prefer the Apple model. And as an iPod Touch owner, the on-device App Store app is superb. However, the level of control they exert over what goes into the App store is totally unacceptable in a democratic world, and I really believe that this will come round and bite them in the backside in the next year or so...

  #23  
Old 30-08-2010, 03:34 PM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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"A high proportion of Symbian users hack their phones to install unsigned apps"

Only if you call 0.001% a high proportion... Give me strength.... [FX: sighs]
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  #24  
Old 30-08-2010, 04:16 PM
user47alpha user47alpha is offline
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I must aggree with payaxy, I don't see a pro on the fact that Ovi Store doesn't have an update mechanism.
Devs who doesn't want to use the Ovi Store have to develope their own update mechanism in every case, so I see a two way strategy:

1) Ovi Store provides updates as painless as possible
2) Apps which doesn't come from the Ovi Store do their own thing

  #25  
Old 30-08-2010, 04:35 PM
krisq krisq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles View Post
A high proportion of Symbian users hack their phones to install unsigned apps, including ones that update themselves.
No, no at all. Power users are a minority. Very vocal minority though.

  #26  
Old 30-08-2010, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ClockworkZombie View Post
The one thing more likely to send me to iPhone and not Symbian/ Maemo for my next phone is the handset firmware updates coming to the user at the mercy of the carrier they purchased the phone from. I wish Nokia could do the same thing.
Changing a product code is very easy and so there is no carrier dependency. I have tested the warranty myth, and it's a non issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockworkZombie View Post
I am more willing to update my Apple app store stuff due to the simplicity of the process. I have had issues in the past with symbian apps not installing correctly and needing to install a second time to get it right.
[/quote]

I've had plenty of App store installs on my iPhone where the install has just stalled and needing to be restarted. Also apps that have installed but immediately exit when they launch requiring a reinstall. All on my "perfect" iPhone.

  #27  
Old 30-08-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsepz_011 View Post
I prefer Android's way far more than Symbian. As someone said before, the app specific way can totaly kill the user's flow. I remember many times on my 5800 where id boot Tweets60, UCWeb, Ovi Store, Nokia Messaging Email etc... when wanting to quickly use them and a moment after boot up especialy with Ovi Store, you get the update prompt,update and the app has to then shutdown and then booted up again and with Tweets60 this would be annoying as it would have to reload all those Tweets. .
The app specific way with an app like profimail might well offer an update but you can choose to ignore it. I don't know why Tweets60 is designed like that but it doesn't need to be.

I really hate being locked into a single source. I much prefer being able to buy from where I like and handle the installation files etc.

For some reason with my Android, I get new update notifications in the top bar, but if I miss them they clear and never come back. Pretty shite really.

  #28  
Old 30-08-2010, 08:46 PM
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The N900 and its application manager

talhamid : I'm not agree with you. I like a lot the N900 interface and if you think that the application manager is too slow you can install 'Fast application manager", an application that have the same features than the application manager and do the same job but faster !

  #29  
Old 30-08-2010, 11:33 PM
ClockworkZombie ClockworkZombie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Changing a product code is very easy and so there is no carrier dependency. I have tested the warranty myth, and it's a non issue.

I've had plenty of App store installs on my iPhone where the install has just stalled and needing to be restarted. Also apps that have installed but immediately exit when they launch requiring a reinstall. All on my "perfect" iPhone.
I have read of people NOT getting warranty service if the product code has been changed it probably depends on your country I have had dud applications that do not work after installation but not apps that do not install, this may be the same thing though.
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  #30  
Old 31-08-2010, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ClockworkZombie View Post
I have read of people NOT getting warranty service if the product code has been changed it probably depends on your country I have had dud applications that do not work after installation but not apps that do not install, this may be the same thing though.
Unless the problem with the phone was caused by the change of product code, then I don't see how the warranty shouldn't stand.
 

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