All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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  #106  
Old 28-06-2010, 08:49 PM
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I'm a bit confused at what the differentiators will be between Meego and Symbian^4?

Lee Williams said that Symbian (not sure if it was in reference to ^3 or ^4) would be the most advanced mobile OS on the planet and way ahead of the competition in terms of features and support for upcoming technologies.

From the media so far released on the N8, at least in terms of some of the hero features and the UI, it looks on a par with what a smartphone should be in 2010 (who knows in practice) and ^4 can only build upon this and advance the UI to Android/iPhone levels of slickness?

Let's say that we see the first ^4 devices in Q1 2011, what will Meego do that Symbian can't? We've had the phrase 'mobile computers' and 'high end' bandied about and Rafe in the latest AAS podcast say even 'create a new class of devices ' with regards to Meego (and hey, Apple did it with the iPad) but I still question the real need for Meego?

Admittedly I've not played with the N900 to get a grasp of Maemo, but then again there's only the current crop of S60v5 to compare against, and I can't believe that the difference between say, a N97 and N900, could be as monumental between a Symbian^3 device (never mind ^4) and the Meego devices to come.

  #107  
Old 28-06-2010, 09:46 PM
clonmult clonmult is offline
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Originally Posted by morpheus2702 View Post
Admittedly I've not played with the N900 to get a grasp of Maemo, but then again there's only the current crop of S60v5 to compare against, and I can't believe that the difference between say, a N97 and N900, could be as monumental between a Symbian^3 device (never mind ^4) and the Meego devices to come.
I haven't used an N97, nor an N900. But along similar lines, I own a 5230 and had a Nokia 770 for quite a while.

From the OS side, the 770 running either the original firmware, or the later HE (Hacker Edition - semi official updates from Nokia and the community giving later UI changes and functionality to the older devices) even a few years ago was a much better all round computing platform than a 5230 on the latest firmware. Not quite as easy to use for your average person, but the browser was quite good (Fennec, early version iirc).

The biggest difference was screen real estate - 800x480 was just so much more usable than 640x360.

The difference is akin to comparing S60v5 or S^3 to a desktop. Maemo really is a desktop level operating system that just happens to fit and work quite well on a mobile device.

And interestingly, Nokia did veer from QVGA on the N80 - that was running 352x416? Shame that they dropped back to lower resolution screens for the subsequent models.

  #108  
Old 28-06-2010, 09:49 PM
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Fujitsu will probably dump Symbian except as a base OS in the long run which means it is pretty worthless for developers.

http://www.nttdocomo.com/pr/2010/001473.html
NTT (albeit not the DoCoMo side) were an interesting company when I worked for them, an app that we'd developed and put a lot of resources into (and did exactly what was asked of) was unceremoniously dropped for a.n. other solution developed internally. Interesting that nothing ever seemed to come of the discussions for them to setup some form of european base.

  #109  
Old 28-06-2010, 09:54 PM
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The slide...............

Look at the slide.......


Nokia 1661 4.99 T-Mobile PAYG. That's S40.

Sub 100 LOL!
That sort of market price point isn't interested in data in the slightest though, and the arpu will generally be ridiculously low.

Devices such as the lower end Symbian products are very likely to be bought/used on data tariffs which are likely to be more lucrative.

And the 1661 .... we've been looking at a phone for the step daughter at her next birthday (10 years old, too young for a mobile .... ?). What do the kids seem to be wanting? Games, camera, sending of pics/videos between friends - something that the 5230 can do considerably better than such a basic S40 device.

Of course, the 1661 is purely aimed at people who only want to make/take calls and absolutely nothing else, and as a result isn't quite as mass market as higher end S40 devices or lower end S60 devices.

  #110  
Old 28-06-2010, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by KPO'M View Post
Or one that Nokia thinks is perfectly fine on their new flagship. Perhaps because it works well with pinch-and-zoom, doesn't need a stylus (which are clunky and easy to lose, anyway), and enables rapid typing because it is so sensitive. I can type faster on an original iPhone or a Nexus One than I can on a BlackBerry keyboard, and a lot faster than I could on the resistive touchscreens of the N97 or N900.

Did it ever occur to use that perhaps Apple used a capacitive touchscreen because they knew that the public would like it? Wouldn't it have been easier and cheaper for them to use a resistive touchscreen on the original iPhone?

People don't just buy products because they say Apple on them. Look at the AppleTV, the Cube, or even the MacBook Air for evidence. People buy Apple products because they fit their needs and are stylish. Apple is very good at predicting consumer desires, which is why they have so many top-selling products. Capacitive touchscreens gave them the flexibility, combined with Apple's software writing prowess, to make the devices easier to use. Ask yourself if Nokia would have ever thought to use pinch-and-zoom and a multitouch screen if someone didn't do it first?

.
Pinch and zoom is one of those "ooh" things that amuses people. But when you are one handed and trying to zoom a map you need something more practical. Nokia used the spiral zoom on Maemo, far better. Apple were too busy doing "ooh look at that" to think of the guy navigating in the street with a bag in one hand.

People who think narrow and parochially do often dismiss the stylus. But if you use one of the languages that use them as the most practical means of input they are indispensible.

Have a look on Ebay at the number of broken screen iPhones for sale.

I can type faster on a physical keypad than I can on my iPhone.
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  #111  
Old 28-06-2010, 10:04 PM
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I see that KPO'M and the rest of the know-it-all armchair businessmen have got nothing better to do again.

  #112  
Old 29-06-2010, 03:05 AM
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Pinch and zoom is one of those "ooh" things that amuses people. But when you are one handed and trying to zoom a map you need something more practical. Nokia used the spiral zoom on Maemo, far better. Apple were too busy doing "ooh look at that" to think of the guy navigating in the street with a bag in one hand.
You can zoom an iPhone map by tapping it.


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People who think narrow and parochially do often dismiss the stylus. But if you use one of the languages that use them as the most practical means of input they are indispensible.
And for those of us who don't (i.e. speakers of most European languages) the virtual keyboards we get on our capacitive touchscreens on iOS, Android, and yes, Symbian phones are perfectly adequate.

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I can type faster on a physical keypad than I can on my iPhone.
Good for you. But the N8 doesn't have a physical keyboard, either, so the debate between iOS and Symbian and Android can't be argued in terms of keyboard vs. no keyboard. Apple chooses not to make any phones with keyboards, but not because they couldn't. Several Android devices have keyboards, and several Symbian devices are keyboardless.

I actually prefer Android myself. That said, it's impossible to deny that Apple has found a winner with the iPhone and iOS.

  #113  
Old 29-06-2010, 03:06 AM
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I see that KPO'M and the rest of the know-it-all armchair businessmen have got nothing better to do again.
And you have the time to reply why?

  #114  
Old 29-06-2010, 03:08 AM
KPOM
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Devices such as the lower end Symbian products are very likely to be bought/used on data tariffs which are likely to be more lucrative.
Not necessarily. People looking for "free" or low upfront costs phones will likely buy anything in front of them that looks nice if the price is right. They may be purchasing a smartphone without realizing what it can do.

  #115  
Old 29-06-2010, 07:13 AM
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And you have the time to reply why?
Because I've got nothing better to do either. But I'm not going to waste my time writing baby boardroom amateur naieve business strategy bullshyte.

Next.

  #116  
Old 29-06-2010, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
You can zoom an iPhone map by tapping it.
To a preset level defined for you by Apple and you can't zoom out again.Not good enough. Nokia and spiral wins. I know this beause I have an iPhone and unlike the many I am not blinded to it's very irritating UI faults.

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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
And for those of us who don't (i.e. speakers of most European languages) the virtual keyboards we get on our capacitive touchscreens on iOS, Android, and yes, Symbian phones are perfectly adequate.
I prefer to think more broadly and less parochially.


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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post

I actually prefer Android myself. That said, it's impossible to deny that Apple has found a winner with the iPhone and iOS.
I use an iPhone. I'm not sure that the OS and UI are the entire reason for its success. It is extremely poor in very important areas. These are areas that Nokia always get right, but they are not the upfront in your face eye candy areas. It's the superficial stuff that sells.

  #117  
Old 29-06-2010, 07:20 AM
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Not necessarily. People looking for "free" or low upfront costs phones will likely buy anything in front of them that looks nice if the price is right. .
All phones are available free.

  #118  
Old 29-06-2010, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by clonmult View Post
That sort of market price point isn't interested in data in the slightest though, and the arpu will generally be ridiculously low.

Devices such as the lower end Symbian products are very likely to be bought/used on data tariffs which are likely to be more lucrative.

And the 1661 .... we've been looking at a phone for the step daughter at her next birthday (10 years old, too young for a mobile .... ?). What do the kids seem to be wanting? Games, camera, sending of pics/videos between friends - something that the 5230 can do considerably better than such a basic S40 device.

Of course, the 1661 is purely aimed at people who only want to make/take calls and absolutely nothing else, and as a result isn't quite as mass market as higher end S40 devices or lower end S60 devices.
Correct! That's S40 defined.

That's why Symbian isn't replacing it. They are different. It took a while but you got there.

BTW, 10 year olds and up want a qwerty keyboard and prefer Blackberry curves to the cheaper LG type phones.

  #119  
Old 29-06-2010, 08:40 AM
clonmult clonmult is offline
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Correct! That's S40 defined.

That's why Symbian isn't replacing it. They are different. It took a while but you got there.

BTW, 10 year olds and up want a qwerty keyboard and prefer Blackberry curves to the cheaper LG type phones.
Eh? What? S40 is quite a capable "featurephone OS", having Java for gaming, GPS functionality, bluetooth/A2DP, autofocus cameras, etc. If the 1661 is representative of where S40 is going to be going, its basically dropping 90% of its selling points.

Symbian is going to replace S40 though, that was *always* Nokias intent. And it still is judging from what they're actually pushing.

10 year olds and up don't want qwerty, and definitely don't prefer blackberry devices. What they want - as I have said before - is to have something that looks good (ie. not a blackberry), can take pictures/video, play games, do some facebook, play music. The music ability of the BB range really isn't that good. And gaming just hasn't taken off on BB.

Oh, and if its a girl, they'll want it in pink.

Have you tried sending files over bluetooth from a BB? Its absolutely terrible! But then the BB success truly is amazing - its never looked good, only ever worked well in a corporate environment (where I supported and used them for years), the UI is .... kludgy - it makes S60v5 look simple!

  #120  
Old 29-06-2010, 11:36 AM
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I use an iPhone. I'm not sure that the OS and UI are the entire reason for its success. It is extremely poor in very important areas. These are areas that Nokia always get right, but they are not the upfront in your face eye candy areas. It's the superficial stuff that sells.
If you love Nokia/hate iPhone so much why do you use an iPhone? What UI complaints do you have against iOS? I'm curious as your point of view is usually the opposite way around. Most of the people I speak to usually want to get rid of their Nokia/Samsung/Sony Ericsson in favour of an iPhone.
 

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