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Old 03-07-2009, 11:15 AM
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Ewan Ewan is offline
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Nokia Should Lock Up Ovi Store Developers In A Warehouse

Over on the Lazarus like Mobile Industry Review, the other Ewan in mobile has posted an ambitious yet simple plan to save the Ovi Store from itself. Simply put, Nokia would create three enclaves of coders (in London, San Francisco and Paris) and give them a monthly stipend of £3,500 and as much coca cola and pizza as they can eat. As long as they code one application every eight weeks, the proposed 100 developers per warehouse get to stay. Total cost? Roughly £2.34 per handset. That's quite high, but this is a fascinating idea that should be taken seriously.

Read on in the full article.

Old 03-07-2009, 01:41 PM
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Good luck

Do you SERIOUSLY think they would ANY developers with those work terms? I'm not talking about developers that can actually independently code useful applications, but I'm talking about ANY developer?! Developers make MUCH more money than that in the western countries, even with normal working terms.

It's not like a developer does good software just because you give them few cans of coca-cola... Working in a warehouse? Doing the first application for free? Come on guys have you ever had any contact to an actual software project. Working conditions and terms are much better even in China or India.

Not that this is written by AAS, but this must be the stupidest thing I've read here so far.

Old 03-07-2009, 02:29 PM
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I am sorry but this is one of the daftest ideas I have ever read. Comment at the original site, if it is published.

Old 03-07-2009, 03:04 PM
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I personally think that this offends many a developer.

Old 03-07-2009, 03:12 PM
ew4n ew4n is offline
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I think you've all missed the point

Old 03-07-2009, 03:23 PM
bbj bbj is offline
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Clearly no idea about software development

Assuming its feasible to write apps in 2 man months which is pretty dubious for anything people might actually want to purchase:

i) contract rates in London are considerably more than the 160/day or so proposed - (3500/22) even in these crap times. Living just outside London means it costs 16/day just to get to warehouse + back via our beloved public transport system.... (somewhat less by car even with congestion charge). What possible reason would there be to work for 160/day when its trivial to get twice that ?. Cant imagine Paris + SF are much cheaper.

ii) 7K as the budget for an app is laughable. If thats all it cost dont you think there might be a very significantly larger developer base ?.

iii) doing the programming is only a small part of the job. Who is doing all the testing, porting to multiple screen sizes/device types, graphics design, sales, marketing, promotion, IT support, etc etc - that easily doubles the cost.

iv) If you truly think all Apple developers are actually making any meaningful revenue from the AppStore you really are in cloud cuckoo land. $0.99 is totally unsustainable as a price point + were already seeing developers going under in that market. You need to produce something of greater value than $0.99, but that means bigger developement budgets....

Old 03-07-2009, 03:25 PM
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Which point is that then ?

Old 03-07-2009, 03:29 PM
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While I would certainly question the method, the underlying assumption that Nokia should consider subsidising a number of third party applications is worthy of consideration. With competitions Nokia already does this - but I guess this is a question of scale.

This sort of idea has come up before. Work out what are the 50 leading apps on each competing platform and work with the developers to get them ported. Do it by subsidising the costs involved.

Ultimately though I think creating the correct climate for this to happen via market forces is probably the best approach (rather than direct subsidy, which is, in one sense, fixing things at the wrong end). In the Symbian world the rise of Ovi Store, Qt and web runtime is going to change things an awful lot over the next few years.

I'm less convinced by the innovation argument - yes a lot does come in from small developers. However innovation does not automatically equal commercial success. Amongst the most commercially successfully mobile application are those that provide travel information / weather forecasts etc (not especially innovative). Innovative apps are good for marketing (especially the web-tech audience) and clearly there's value in having 'cool' applications...

Also some contenxt / perspective is helpful. The reality is that for most consumers third party application availability is not the first thing they think of when buying a device (important - yes - and becoming more so, but importance is generally way over stated, especially in the media). I'm NOT saying there's no value, just that it has to be put into perspective. Thus expectations about mobile apps being the next gold rush need to be reined in a bit (in some cases).

I would also wonder about the value of one or two man teams doing this. Clearly some do a fantastic job, but I think that might be a case of 'the tip of the ice berg' argument. There's questions of scalability and sustainability if these teams enjoy big success (development is the easy bit, business is the hard bit).
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Old 03-07-2009, 04:54 PM
architengi architengi is offline
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This is very offensive to developers.

First, keep in mind a real developer (do not confuse them with some HTML web-site creator), has an IQ of over 110 where the average is 95, (s)he needs to know a LOT of things, not just a language, but thousands of functions from APIs and algorithms and how-to...

Because of the above, the software developer which is the software CREATOR (like in many iPhone applications, where the developer comes with the idea, design, code implementation and some testing) needs to have INTELLECTUAL RIGHTS for the produict produced, like in the movie or music industry. Basically, big companies just exploit developers because in the contract they stipulate the software AUTOR and CREATOR which is the developer, should not get any percentage from the sales. Books authors, music authors, they get percentage of the sales!

Second, I think the salary of 3500 pounds/month or 42000 pounds/year (or aprox 65000 US$/year) is an entry level salary, a junior programmer which by no means can finish an application in 2 months, other then if the guy is very, very good (genius) and the learning curve for him is just a plain instead of a steep hill.

Third, I heard this joke: "if the developers are not ready in time, we lock them in the room and throw some pizza under the door until they are ready"... this is very offensive, because developers are not rats, they are smart guys, smarter then the average, sometimes genius guys, and they are AUTHORS and CREATORS of the product, but because they are not allowed to have a UNION, they simply cannot ask for their INTELLECTUAL RIGHTS.

What do you think about this? Please give me some feedback, some comments... :-)

Old 03-07-2009, 05:33 PM
gkiharo gkiharo is offline
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As a programmer in a third world country, I earn about 4,000 a month. Given that the living standards here are way below those for anyone in London or any of those cities, that salary is a joke.

Old 03-07-2009, 06:46 PM
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Smile Iq =

@ architengi . Some critisism : take it or leave it .
Per definition : the averige IQ of the general population is pointed to 100 (sic) , per person .
Intelectual Challenge (example) :
When somebody with 90 needs 110 a day , a person with 110 should be able to live with 90 a day : since he is more intelligent ....
IQ 90 = 90 , IQ 110 = 110 is contradictory to this statement .....

Regards jApi NL

Last edited by jApi NL; 03-07-2009 at 06:49 PM. Reason: Correction

Old 03-07-2009, 06:59 PM
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wow everyone over reacts. So fine the salary numbers and details can be changed and negotiated. The point here is to get some serious competition into the symbian world via the ovi store. Does everyone not see how this can only be a good thing? Nokia NEEDS something to get quality apps going in their ovi sTORE. ↲

And lets not forget the bad economy will bring some coders out just to get a steady gig. Nokia has the money all they have to do is match the salary with the current industry standards for each location. They need something like this to get things moving!

Old 04-07-2009, 05:24 AM
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I was with the author with the point that Symbian should release tools to make developing for S60 easier. When the most hyped app of the moment, the N97 Facebook client, is actually a web widget, that tells you a lot about the ease (or lack thereof) of developing a native S60 app.
He lost me when he started talking about locking people in a warehouse. I'm pretty sure slavery is illegal, at least in the countries he mentions.
Another thing Nokia could do is to beef up hardware specs. A 264Mhz CPU in a flagship device (N96)? Really? Maybe Nokia can afford to spend considerable time and resources to optimize software for a specific device, but most 3rd party developers can't.

Old 04-07-2009, 07:40 AM
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Widgets are what are needed

widgets are what are needed in ovi store. A lot of iphone apps are just making data available on the web more useful on a mobile device. There isnt a need for lots of complicated Symbian OS apps. Just simple stuff.

No need to lock anyone up. Just make sure there are rewards for apps developed.

Old 04-07-2009, 08:11 AM
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I'm surprised that there are so many people here who do not like the idea of 3500 pounds per month (or 65 thousands USD per year).
In Russia and in Ukraine there are a number of studios (with even more than 10 people) who make best-selling casual games for portals such as BigFishGames or RealArcade with TOTAL BUDGET of 40-60K USD per game.
There must be something wrong in this world economy when in one country people can create the top-selling casual game for a certain sum of money and in another country exactly the same amount of money will not be enough for one person!


developers, lock, nokia, ovi, store, warehouse

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