All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

  #1  
Old 16-07-2009, 08:49 AM
guerilla_jungle guerilla_jungle is offline
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Don't use NSS+NSU, warranty will be void. Use Phoenix.

So, I think it is important I post this. A lot of use with N95's realised that in the Uk, at least, Nokia are being very strict with honouring warranty on handsets that have had product code changed, then updated with nokia software updater (NSU.)

If you wish to invalidate your UK warranty with Nokia over your N95/N95-8GB or any handset, go and change your product code with NSS then use Nokia Software Updater to update.

Nokia keep logs with NSU, they know you changed your product code, and as they are a scummy company, will then refuse to honour your warranty.

Solution:

Use NSS if you wish to change your product code, which can also be done with Phoenix, then use Phoenix to upgrade your firmware yourself.

It's important you familiarise yourself with the Phoenix interface, but it's basically very simple to use. You just need the software packages, and your normal USB able to your Nokia handset.

Why am I posting this? Well, Nokia wont know you've changed the firmware yourself, and the product code change will only be known by you. If something happens to your handset, Phoenix has a 'dead flash' feature, meaning that unless all hell breaks loose on your phone (very unlikely, most warranty problems are related to screen, software problems, or hardware problems with the keypad) then you will still be able to, at the very least, flash your original product code back to the handset.

If the service centre see you have the original product code on your handset when trying to claim for your warranty, they will be none the wiser.

In my opinion you would have to be crazy to use NSS+NSU as a software update combination right now. Go with phoenix. I'm not too technically minded, and I worked out how to use it in half a day.

Hope this helps someone.

Thanks.

  #2  
Old 16-07-2009, 09:50 AM
mrochester mrochester is offline
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It's hardly scummy of Nokia to not honour the warranty given that you have willingly voided the warranty by changing the product code. If you want them to honour the warranty, don't change the product code!

  #3  
Old 16-07-2009, 10:15 AM
guerilla_jungle guerilla_jungle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post
It's hardly scummy of Nokia to not honour the warranty given that you have willingly voided the warranty by changing the product code. If you want them to honour the warranty, don't change the product code!
Do you genuinely believe what you're saying? Authorised software for use on your specific hardware: unacceptable due to some separate parameter - the product code? If you were flashing your own firmware using a non Nokia tool, or firmware you had purposefully changed, then yes, I would agree with you. The way mobile phone contracts are worded in a legal sense means that the equipment is yours, but you pay for the service. I'm aware from cases that vodafone or Nokia like to think they can somehow restrict what you do with the handset, but you are fully entitled to any firmware updates to provide the correct experience for the hardware you purchased. You seem to agree it's ok to penalise for attempting to achieve this.

It's just an easy way for Nokia to get out of providing support for their products. You'll not Sony Ericsson aren't anywhere near as strict, and in fact very generous. They judge hardware faults based on the hardware, not the software.

You are aware the product code is just that, a code? Hardware is identical. It's well known Nokia f****d up the implementation of operator specific branding, at times perhaps due to cumbersome 'feature' requests from the likes of vodafone.

Generic v30 or v31 N95 software, as an example, is what the product should have sold with. Instead Nokia are selling you a product that is technically capable of what they state, but in practice does not correctly utilise the features due to bugs.

If you wanted a stable firmware, and your operator was stuck on a firmware from 2 years ago, how would you feel if you upgraded, quite rightly *as you own the device*, and get told a hardware fault, which is legally covered, will not be repaired. Go check consumer law, then get back to me. Nokia can state whatever they wish regarding their handsets. In my experience with more timid friends, I've managed to help people get repairs on products flashed with generic firmware, based on the fact that our lovely UK law states hardware faults and software faults are separate.

Yes, I'm a lawyer, so perhaps more clued up than your average customer, granted.

The warranty should be on the hardware, and Nokia's service centres just use the product code change as a get-out clause. Given the high hardware failure rate of mobile devices compared with more standard consumer products, it is a bit disingenuous to avoid repairing a hardware fault that is simply caused by a fault with that hardware, by blaming unauthorised software on it. Generic firmware should be backed by Nokia on any handset, like with most other manufacturers.

As soon as you Nokia fanbois realise this, you'll realise gradually over a period of time Nokia have been shafting it's loyal customers. You may laugh at how Apple treats its customers, but I can assure you many onlookers wonder just why people jump on Nokia product (eg: the N97) when they are put into the market with blatently lacking firmware which is not even worthy of sale.

N85 - very poor build quality, N97 - laughable firmware. I remember the reason for not changing from a Nokia device years ago, due to the very simple interface being user friendly. However, keeping in mind I still own a certain Nokia and think it's great, the same can't be said of the majority of the newer Nokia products on the market.

Back to the topic: change of software does not affect hardware failure. Particularly when that software is Nokia authorised for that hardware; just because you have a different product code - a code which makes no difference to the functionality of the phone keep in mind - you are refused service. Keep in mind that in conformance with standard law, this is not acceptable. You've seen those 'unlimited XXX' mobile offerings that are in fact capped? Those are a gray area - what I'm mentioning is no gray area, the networks and Nokia are just relying on you squirming to accept what they say.

For the record, I am no fan of any manufacturer, however I do find the N95 8GB and SE K800i to be amongst the best phones available, even at the current time. They have held the test of time, unlike more modern offerings, which have displayed that we are clearly in a recession with the cost-cutting that has been implemented.

Last edited by guerilla_jungle; 16-07-2009 at 10:22 AM.

  #4  
Old 16-07-2009, 10:22 AM
mrochester mrochester is offline
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I think the best thing to do if you don't want to be bound by those warranty terms and conditions is to not buy a Nokia phone. A jailbroken iPhone will void your warranty with Apple.
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  #5  
Old 16-07-2009, 10:27 AM
guerilla_jungle guerilla_jungle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post
I think the best thing to do if you don't want to be bound by those warranty terms and conditions is to not buy a Nokia phone. A jailbroken iPhone will void your warranty with Apple.
No it doesn't. If you're not an idiot, you reset a certain hex parameter to relock the phone, which also wipes any information present to indicate you have seemingly changed settings without authorisation.

The point of this thread is to state that you should change your product code, and have the firmware you want. You should not use NSU to upgrade firmware.

With my information it is possible to get your old product code (et al) back on the phone when claiming warranty. With the NSS+NSU method there is no recovery, as Nokia have already recorded you changed your product code. One way is a dead end warranty wise, the other phoenix way is not a dead end, and in most cases will get your warranty honoured.

Of course, if one reads heavily on dull consumer law like myself then you will get your warranty honoured anyway, but I feel that's going to be hassle for some people who end up mis-quoting what they read on random internet forums.

  #6  
Old 16-07-2009, 12:31 PM
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jApi NL jApi NL is offline
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Smile Imho

1. Buy an unbranded Phone
2. When you like to reflash , demand price reduction , since you are not going to use Warranty .
3. Play with it as much as you want : now it is your phone without producer restrictions .
4. Throw it down from a skyscraper .
5. Great ! OS is still FREE to crab !

Regards jApi NL

  #7  
Old 16-07-2009, 12:48 PM
mrochester mrochester is offline
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Whether you changing anything is recorded or not, it still doesn't prevent the warranty from being technically void. Covering your tracks so that Apple don't know you've jailbroken the phone is simply lying to keep your warranty. That's not to say I'm against doing it, but there's no point kidding yourself into thinking you deserve to have your warranty honoured if you've specifically done something that voids the warranty. As it is now, Nokia simply have a better system in place to monitor the warranty status of your device than Apple does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla_jungle View Post
No it doesn't. If you're not an idiot, you reset a certain hex parameter to relock the phone, which also wipes any information present to indicate you have seemingly changed settings without authorisation.

The point of this thread is to state that you should change your product code, and have the firmware you want. You should not use NSU to upgrade firmware.

With my information it is possible to get your old product code (et al) back on the phone when claiming warranty. With the NSS+NSU method there is no recovery, as Nokia have already recorded you changed your product code. One way is a dead end warranty wise, the other phoenix way is not a dead end, and in most cases will get your warranty honoured.

Of course, if one reads heavily on dull consumer law like myself then you will get your warranty honoured anyway, but I feel that's going to be hassle for some people who end up mis-quoting what they read on random internet forums.

  #8  
Old 16-07-2009, 01:41 PM
dez_borders dez_borders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla_jungle View Post
I've managed to help people get repairs on products flashed with generic firmware, based on the fact that our lovely UK law states hardware faults and software faults are separate.

Yes, I'm a lawyer, so perhaps more clued up than your average customer, granted.
.
I agree with you totally, morally etc., but until some lawyer (hint hint!) takes out a class-action (or UK equivalent) and sues the pants off Nokia Europe, they will continue to get away with this for 99 out of every 100 users who cannot afford a lawyer (or don't know one well enough to get free advice). I have already lost 2 handset warranties in the last 15 months.

As for using Phoenix instead of NSU, that's cool, I have done this myself in the past. but please be aware that the more recent version of Phoenix will read the product code, then automatically download the required firmware for you, and, I very much suspect, LOG the product-code and IMEI number in the NSU database for later use against you.

If anyone is going to use Phoenix I would strongly advise they manually download (from torrent etc) the official Firmware package file and do not use the automatic FW download option.

Phoenix is also much more complex to install and use than NSU, so may be beyond the capabilities (and patience) of many Nokia smartphone owners.


So... getting back to my first point, as a lawyer, are you interested in collecting names for a possible (no win no fee) class-action against Nokia Europe?????
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  #9  
Old 16-07-2009, 01:49 PM
dez_borders dez_borders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla_jungle View Post
With my information it is possible to get your old product code (et al) back on the phone when claiming warranty.

Point of order: Changing the product code back doesn't stop the engineer detecting that the installed firmware (and/or FW variant files) do not match the supported FW available for the original product code. With or without NSU logs, Nokia would respond with 'incorrect FW - warranty void'

I also notice you have used the word IDIOT in your postings - would you do this in court under oath? I think not! Please don't be so patronising to forum users!
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Last edited by dez_borders; 16-07-2009 at 01:53 PM.

  #10  
Old 21-07-2009, 12:25 PM
munkiii munkiii is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dez_borders View Post
Point of order: Changing the product code back doesn't stop the engineer detecting that the installed firmware (and/or FW variant files) do not match the supported FW available for the original product code. With or without NSU logs, Nokia would respond with 'incorrect FW - warranty void'

I also notice you have used the word IDIOT in your postings - would you do this in court under oath? I think not! Please don't be so patronising to forum users!
if you read the first post, they say to flash your original firmware back onto your device before you send it back for fixing under warranty.

  #11  
Old 21-07-2009, 01:20 PM
dez_borders dez_borders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munkiii View Post
if you read the first post, they say to flash your original firmware back onto your device before you send it back for fixing under warranty.
As most people de-brand to get the latest firmware which is not supported by their network, your suggestion would require downgrading firmware to put it back to the original configuration.

It's widely accepted that downgrading FW bricks nokia N-series handsets so I would not recommend your suggestion to anyone reading this thread.

I'm not sure you have thought this all through properly before you advise people to do carry out potentially dangerous modifications to their phones!
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