All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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Old 17-06-2010, 12:03 PM
snoFlake snoFlake is offline
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I hope you're right Rafe I really do, on several levels.

I do believe in open source - use linux a lot, the majority of my PC's

Whilst I understand the Apple walled garden is an effective way to make sure things work I'm hoping it doesn't become too dominant as we have already seen it push up phone ownership costs and now the iPad is pushing up media consumption costs so I am wary of over Apple dominance. Meanwhile Android concerns me nearly as much - do I feel happy giving Google all my personal data including where I am and where I've been and what I was buying and looking at when I did so? Not really they may do no evil but do I want to trust them or any future owner not to, I think not.

I was a big fan of Psion (clunk! Pound in box) and liked the early SE UIQ handsets (what a crying shame and missed opportunity) so I would think it would be very sad to see it brached off into obscurity.

And I'd like some return back on my shares OK coz I waited 'til last Autumn I'm only down c.30% but that's still pretty poor (mea culpa for not cutting them with this profit warning rumours last week could've saved 10%) but seriously at these levels there's going to be serious share holder discontent and OK the Finnish Govt has probably got a lock on them and not sure who'd want to buy them yet as they're doing great job on their own of giving away #1 position but I don't want them to disappear and reduce platform diversity.

But boy oh boy are they making it tough! I really hope there is some good news to come before the wave breaks.

Old 17-06-2010, 03:29 PM
clonmult clonmult is offline
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Originally Posted by snoFlake View Post
If they can't make decent handsets now (and the N97 and S60 V5 were sub dismal) how is that going to change in a year? And seeing how much better SBP shell on Symbian is than Nokia/Symbian's own efforts how embarrassing is that for both of those organisations, that a small company can provide a quzantum leap better experience in half the time - ridiculous. Nokia clearly have too many in god knows what area but it's clearly not programmers.
I don't think the issue has ever been programmers - years spent in coding, I'd say that the main issue is with designers and testing.

S60 V5 was just .... uninspired. Its functional, does most of the things you'd want, but in general its never quite so intuitive - the migration of the S60v3 interface to touch just wasn't fully thought out.

Originally Posted by snoFlake View Post
The same decision makers that brought the company and its handset strategy and vision (or lack of it) are still at the helm. Why should next year be different? Yes they will improve their handsets but unfortunately for Nokia they don't exist in a bubble although they seem to be living in one, their competition will have improved their handsets more - how do I know because I can see the platform to do this already in place and they have record of doing this unlike Nokia who just deliver airy assurances and slow development cycles. The rel of S^3 is not that late but it is slow as it was meant to be functionally complete in Feb and Nokia have not been doing anything else since 2009 and delaying the N8 release whilst understandable to prevent another N97 is extremely unfortunate in that they have no handsets in the market place that can stand up to the raised level of competition this year and they're getting killed and they're only going to enter the fray in the last quarter effectivley with an upper mid end phone with an OS that looks like one that many got burnt with and a handset that emphasises photography something that the majority of highend purchasers don't seem that fussed about in comparison to ecosystem.
Hopefully the success of the iPhone and Android are giving Nokia senior management a right royal kick in their senses - its desparately needed.

Nokia had the Download! application for years prior to the Apple App Store - if they'd actually bothered to sit down and get it right, rather than the half baked waste that they had, they would have been there selling apps, making money, etc. way before Apple got to market. Ovi is a step in the right direction, but the selection of apps is .... relatively dull. Some reasonable ones out there, but not enough to drag Apple/Android fans over.

What worries me is that the N8 is only months away from release, is being demoed left/right/center, yet S^3 is only now functionally complete? Thats definitely of some concern.

A lot of people are commenting that the overall look of the interface is too much like whats gone before, and that could well put off more. Even a totally redesigned set of icons would go some way towards correcting that, but all those efforts are possibly just waiting on S^4.

One thought just occurred to me - is Nokia working like a typical large corporate - every single change has to go through levels of management approval, and therefore takes ages, if ever, to go through? If so, they need a radical shakeup at the top.

I have no doubt that the Nokia hardware & software dev teams are more than capable of putting together a top quality device - look at what they did with the practically skunkworks Maemo devices (surprisingly good support, getting a lot of N810 features back ported to the 770, etc) - I'm not totally convinced that they're going the right way fast enough.

Old 17-06-2010, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by snoFlake View Post
Nokia story - always a year away never today.
I agree 100% - promises, promises... Only this time I am tired of waiting and will switch to iPhone 4.

Waiting YEARS for Ovi Store, Symbian^3, decent high end devices, Symbian^4 etc. And when finally something is released, quality is very disappointing (like Ovi Store). Is it so so difficult to copy user experience form Apple/Android ? Does it have to take 3-4 years?

Old 17-06-2010, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by snoFlake View Post
And seeing how much better SBP shell on Symbian is than Nokia/Symbian's own efforts how embarrassing is that for both of those organisations, that a small company can provide a quzantum leap better experience in half the time - ridiculous. Nokia clearly have too many in god knows what area but it's clearly not programmers.
Yes. Even one developer can provide much better interface and overall experience than Nokia - in Gravity.

Old 17-06-2010, 03:52 PM
tkao2025 tkao2025 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rafe View Post
Agree on share price and related bits. But then the market does not behave rationally or with long term view in mind.
Hi Rafe, I think the market did react with a longer term view in mind as Nokia did project a lowered future outlook. As to all the phones in the pipeline, whether they will be successful or not is still up in the air. To suggest that things will get better once all the products are released is also unconfirmed. As for 2011, one can only guess if Symbian 4 and Meego will be a hit. As we all know Android and iOS will both have things in the pipeline as well.

Why Apple stock jumped yesterday is because we got some sales numbers of the new Iphone 4. Real numbers to work with. Whether Apple uses this number to create a marketing campaign is irrelevant.

I was one of the first to stand in line in New York City store for the N95 a few years back. Nokia kept all of us out of the store specifically to video tape us waiting in line for this new phone. I'm sure that was a marketing campaign as well as there was no need for that.....there was no one in the store and only about 30 of us outside. My point is all companies use images and number to their advantage.

I hope Nokia get's their act together as we've been hearing the same thing for the last 3 years and things have been getting worse. The markets behave based on information provided to them. With downgrades of sales, margins, shuffling of executives, this will only spook the market into thinking problems with Nokia.

Old 19-06-2010, 07:09 AM
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Nokia needs to clean house

Folks- it ain't working- the marketing, design, engineering, testing, on and on...Only thing they can do well is supply chain but that is drying up as their demand is waning...Nokia is done
Massive layoffs/ an acqisition is near, but current management will stay as that is what they are working on, not making good products, but keeping their over-paid jobs.

Old 19-06-2010, 09:28 AM
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Rafe Rafe is offline
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When I refer to a long term view I'm talking about 12 months +. Short term is generally less than six months. The lowered outlook refers to Q2 and Q3. There's a small mention of Q4, but that in the context of things being better (i.e margins will go down in Q2 and Q3 and then up in Q4.
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Old 20-06-2010, 08:54 AM
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The lowering of expectations is actually a good thing, I believe, since if they do better or as originally planned they can announce "better than expected performance" and shares will go up, i they do as the now current announcement "nokia performed as expected" so share stay the same.

In case of devices, USA mobile customers tend to criticize Nokia whithout owning or even touching one Nokia handset, not know how it looks or works, they are in Apple's land, so they have huge influence from Apple, many USA people believe the specs in apple's iPhone are innovations (never seen before) but the recently announce iPhone 4 has the same specs than the N95 (from 2007) except from the touch screen.

Nokia needs marketing in every sense, they announce phones before they have them already cooked up, so people get excited but excitement passes after a few weeks, because right now is mobile time, there are announcements every month (from HTC, Google, Microsoft, Apple, Sony Ericsson, you name it) The advantage Apple always had was the phrase "Available Tomorrow" no they didn't do it, thanks to Gizmodo. And also needs to focus on supply partners (telcos) in the USA, outside the US, Nokia has good partners and good numbers, but the USA is much noisier, and thanks to that noise 10 million iPhones sold sound more than the 50 million Nokia phones sold.

They need to learn from Steve Jobs in marketing, name things already established with fancy names and made the world believe you did it alone, "Retina Display" the Nokia 5800 has better resolution than the iPhone 3GS and the N900 FAR better, common people (most of the consumers) don't get the term "resolution" so explain it with apples and oranges (like steve did). Also the memory, instead of 32GB, explain what is that, more than 5000 songs.

Also lets remember that Nokia was last providing phones with cameras, and then they become the best at, they where last to provide the phones with MP3 players and now those are the best selling worldwide, so Nokia was last with touch screens, but they are going to improve, they are slow but paying attention and learning.

Old 20-06-2010, 09:23 AM
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Nokia thought that nobody would put pressure on there sales an shares,an never moved the software on its mobiles to the next level,but now Apple an Anroid dinting there sales an shares really bad,the company had a go boom with the N95,but since that never released anything outstanding to keep people buying Nokia phones,an people now switching to Alternative mobiles,they didn"t think touch screen mobiles were going to be so popular an did not join the market till late an got loads of catching up to get themselves back on track,thats why we are finally going to get the N8 as they realised the Samsung an Sony Ericsson we getting its buyers switching to these phones an leaving Nokia,Hope in the 3/4 of 2010 an 2011 Nokia start releasing mobiles more outstanding,an hope the Symbian^3 or 4 is really bug free or the Meego mobile is really going to be outstanding to shock the others ,Nokia as also got stop announcing its mobiles to early if they are not finalised we get the iPhone 4 released 2 months before the N8,instead of releasing the N8 the same time ,to see who outsells who


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