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  #16  
Old 26-07-2010, 01:54 PM
gadget freak gadget freak is offline
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Here's a win for nokia PIMS, seriously folks the Desire is a great gadget but the calender is shocking, so shocking in fact my e71 calender wins hands down and thats without handy calender.

  #17  
Old 26-07-2010, 02:42 PM
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The N86 is an excellent smartphone but under appreciated by many. If only Nokia hasd released an N86 with slide up QWERTY .... a minor change but " the most important" factor for many while picking a smartphone.

  #18  
Old 26-07-2010, 02:48 PM
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To sort of answer Steve's question: today's high end smart phone, is tomorrow's feature phone. As devices get more advanced capabilities, previous gen devices are pretty much given away on contract.

(On a side note, that's a reason that I think the Finns in Espoo are in trouble: they still sell a ton of feature phones to emerging markets, but get this: last year's Motorola Milestone, will likely pretty much be given away on contract in emerging markets by this time next year, and its capabilities found on lower end handsets. Ditto the HTC Desire in two years' time and even the iPhone, though Apple doesn't like to play outside the luxury, high end. Nokia better hope that Symbian 3 and 4 can compete against lower end and mid range Android phones in their bastions of strength, because that's what they'll be facing.)

  #19  
Old 26-07-2010, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gadget freak View Post
Here's a win for nokia PIMS, seriously folks the Desire is a great gadget but the calender is shocking, so shocking in fact my e71 calender wins hands down and thats without handy calender.
I can search the Android Market and find some very good, free 3rd party calendars which integrate seamlessly in the OS. I agree that Desire's included calendar (which is not the stock Android one, btw, but part of HTC's Sense framework) is not exactly great, but for me solutions like CalendarPad or Jorte are better than what I could have on my E71. And add to that a wide option of homescreen widgets for displaying your agenda / schedule.
And also the option to sync multiple calendars with Google Calendar is a big plus (for me at least).
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Originally Posted by Tenkom View Post
And the n86 gets a point for Upnp? Upnp is useless in almost every way.If you call it a tie on the connectivity(upnp? Really?)
I still find it amazingly surprising (in a bad way) that you can't specify a WiFi proxy on Andorid. I also find it amazingly surprising (in a bad way) that there is no sound equalizer on Android, either at the system level or in the music player.
Still, overall, I have to agree that Android (on the HTC Desire) feels much better and powerful overall than my E71 or E72. And we have to take into consideration that is actually a young and immature OS, so there's a lot of improvement coming.

  #20  
Old 26-07-2010, 04:48 PM
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shadamehr shadamehr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadget freak View Post
Here's a win for nokia PIMS, seriously folks the Desire is a great gadget but the calender is shocking, so shocking in fact my e71 calender wins hands down and thats without handy calender.
Hello Sir,

I don't suppose you'd care to support or highlight that statement with any explanations or examples as to WHY you feel this is the case?

As I've used Nokias (all 67 different ones at last count), for years, and found the PIM/Calendar side of things to be the worst single factor about Nokia phones.

Admittedly we are talking Symbian only here, but for example, on S40 Nokias, unless things have only very recently changed, you couldn't even create REPEATING ENTRIES on the device itself.

Symbian might be a bit better and allow this, but not a lot.

For example, feel free to tell me how I create a repeating entry for a Boad meeting that occurs on the last Thurdsay of the month (not a numbered day of the month), and take place every two months, on a Nokia device...?


On my Android device, I can easily create "last Thursday of the Month, last Tuesday of the month etc" type entries. Until very recently, on Symbian devices you could only add standard numbered day repeats, not logical repeats, and even now the scope for advanced or logical repeating entries, is slim.

Additionally, on my Android Device, my Calendars are readily synced with my Google Apps Account (and therefore, using software mentioned further below, onwards to the rest of my family, albeit if they were ALL on Android, this chargeable Service/Software on the Nokias wouldn't even be needed).

On my Nokia, for multiple Calendars, this means a very convoluted process to set up...

First you have to PURCHASE the PREMIUM version of a certain Third party app/Online Service, in order to support multiple calendars.

Then you have to MANUALLY configure the sync settings on the Nokia Device.

And then after all of that, you have to use a third party tool to get the phone to automatically trigger these manually configured syncs, as to this day Symbian STILL doesn't have automatic Sync built in, one if it's long known and complained about key ommissions. (And until a FP2 version of this tool eventually got written long long after FP2 devices actually came out, it meant you could not automatically sync at all using a Nokia phone, as I know this myself from the near YEAR I had a new FP2 device, but no means of making it auto sync).

Now it gets worse... As the rest of my Family still have Nokias for now, it means I still need to PAY FOR, and manually configure and set up, the premium Calendar Sync Service I mentioned earlier.

If they instead had Android devices, I would need no ongoing MONEY cost, no time consuming manual set up, and simply a case of enter your Google Apps Account credentials once only, and there you go, fully interchangeable shared calendars across devices.

How anyone can claim that the Android Calendar is inferior is quite staggering to me.

Unless of course they neglect to consider that Android devices are meant as a natural extension to a desktop and even Cloud based account, and that you can do all of the "heavy lifting work" with the simplicity and convenience of a desktop PC (anywhere in the world of course, with it all being cloud based), and seconds later it's all in your Device Calendar.

How does that even remotely compare with Symbian/Nokia PIMs?

Oh, of course notwithstanding the fact that Google Calendar lets you set up multiple "Reminder" events for each Calendar entry, so you can receive a Pop Up on your screen on the PC (and thus the notification bar, on the device itself), or an automatic email message (so to both PC and device), as well as set it up to receive FREE (yes Google pays) SMS notifications, direct to your device. Or all three together if you want. AND totally control WHEN to receive these, based on exactly when YOU want them, or even set up MULTIPLE reminders, of multiple TYPES, for exactly when you want - so an advanced two week warning of a big meeting, by an auto-Email alert and SMS, followed up by an SMS reminder three days before, and again the night before!

I am quiet frankly staggered by the claim you made, again unless you failed to realise that the "Calendar App" on an Android Device, is more a "presentation" tool, to present you with the information FROM your Google Calendar you manage on a real device (anywhere around the world you happen to be), than the actual data entry tool itself. But even then, I still find the Android device, as per the example I listed at the start, to have MORE functionalities itself, than the Symbian PIM does.

I don't say this in an argumentative sense though - I really WOULD love to hear why you think the Symbian PIM/Calender Tools are better than Android and it's direct link to Google Calendar, and the truly massive amount of features, functionality, and controls and useful extras, this includes.

Cheers mate.
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  #21  
Old 26-07-2010, 05:17 PM
gadget freak gadget freak is offline
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ok lets be clear i am not saying the e71 calender is good, hell no way i am just saying in terms of view it is better than android. i just don't find the calender app user friendly.

  #22  
Old 26-07-2010, 05:40 PM
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shadamehr shadamehr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadget freak View Post
ok lets be clear i am not saying the e71 calender is good, hell no way i am just saying in terms of view it is better than android. i just don't find the calender app user friendly.
In terms of viewing it, it's light-years better... I'm just comparing the two now...

On my Desire, I am looking at a spacious, bright screen. I'm in Agenda View currently, and see a clear list of events, with a colour coding bar at the left side, so I can see if they are mine, the kids, my partners, or public holidays, anniversaries etc at a simple glance.

I can see a nice big Alarm symbol on the right for those that have reminders set. And a drag up, will show the next day's events. clearly separated to avoid confusion, by the solod dated border divder.

Contrast that with the Symbian display.

One day View on Android is similar to the Agenda view, but shows only one day's entries.

Month view is easier to see on Android, given the bigger, better screen. But the "Busy" bars in green, in case you weren't aware, Google are aware the current format is not popular, so they are different again in Froy, Android 2.2, to be even more user friendly.

If you meant actually ADDING a new event, not viewing, then I'm really staggered here...

Adding a new event on Symbian, in the PIM/Calendar, is probably the most counter-intuitive, error ridden process you can ever think of...

I mentioned earlier about the "Shared Calendars2 functionality our family utilisies...

Well I've lost track of the MASSIVE amount of entries I have had to correct, when my own Devie receives them, as my partner has once again mis-read what the Entry Fields on Symbian were meaning, or my eldest son has done the same... It' is so entirely counter-intuitive, it's diabolical.

Contrast adding a new item on my Android Calendar...

Click new item.

Change the Calendar you wish it to belong to, from the drop down field at the top (only applicable for those using multiple Calendars this bit).

In the "What" Field, enter the event 'name' (it even prompts you for this, by having "Event name" in shaded, in the box already. Contrast this with Symbian, where the principle is meant to be the same, but the layout arrangement of it always causes issues, or a pause to question what you are meant to be doing...

Then, change the "From" buttons, which are separate for both day, and time, by clicking on the button, and then the "Fruit machine" spin reels approach to choosing a date and time, will pop up for you to just 'dial' in to the time and date you want.

Do the same for the "To" option.

Alternatively, tick the "All Day" tick box, for an all day event.

Enter the "Where" and "Description" fields as you wish, or just leave blank if you prefer.

Choose a Reminder period if you want one...

Invite any guests via their email address, if applicable

And then choose the "repition" from the drop down list.

Then just click Save.

Much more straight-forward, and intuitive, than Symbian, and I know this, becuase after all the many mistaken entires from my parnter or son, I handed them my Android device, and asked them to create an entry, and they instantly said it was much more straight-forward than on their phone, even though neither had even seen Android until I handed them it.

So each to there own, but I see them as remote as chalk and cheese, the Android PIM, compared to the Symbian one, and the Desire one bing light-years ahead at least for me (and my family who I handed the device to, to try and enter one).

Thanks for the clarification though, for sure...
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  #23  
Old 26-07-2010, 07:01 PM
Jimmy1 Jimmy1 is offline
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I agree with shadamehr.

One of the things I hate on my i8910 is the PIM management.

I'm not confident that Symbian 3 (or 4) will resolve this, which is why I asked Steve, Rafe and the crew for the day to day stuff on S^3: PIM, Contacts, Destinations, Email , etc.

This is the type of stuff, the day to day user experience issues where other platforms are sprinting ahead on.

So anyway, yeah, that post....

But then, some Nokia fanboy is going to chime in about: "What's with all these whipper-snappers and their need to check their mail, and their Facebook, and their calendars and contacts. Why, in my day, our phones where mono-chrome, had retractable antennas ( the Zack Morris phone)---and we were grateful! Now get off my lawn!"

  #24  
Old 26-07-2010, 09:16 PM
manual_ manual_ is offline
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I find shadamehr's posts to be of great value.
Shadamehr gives Symbian owners or potential buyers a different perspective. And he goes deep into the details. He shows how different smartphones and user experience are.
Thanks to his posts it becomes clear that what Steve considers to be one point win is actually a huge difference. And that Nokia will have to get a lot more things right in future Symbian / Meego devies than giving them proper specs to have real winners.

  #25  
Old 27-07-2010, 12:53 AM
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N86 can be slow

I find the N86 slower in speed than my N95 ie it sometimes pauses when you open it up after long periods, and it sometimes slow to transition when you turn it sideways. Internet runs out of memory. This is straight out of the box (no new apps installed). So I think it needs to be marked down on speed/memory.

However I bought it due to the fact it had OVI maps turn by turn, and an fm transmitter, plus its physical keys and sliding form factor. It excels there.

  #26  
Old 27-07-2010, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by manual_ View Post
I find shadamehr's posts to be of great value.
Shadamehr gives Symbian owners or potential buyers a different perspective. And he goes deep into the details. He shows how different smartphones and user experience are.
Thanks to his posts it becomes clear that what Steve considers to be one point win is actually a huge difference. And that Nokia will have to get a lot more things right in future Symbian / Meego devies than giving them proper specs to have real winners.
That's what those of us who switched from Symbian to Android (or iPhone) have been shouting for a long time now. Steve can keep on putting these "comparisons" that always end up with the Nokia device on top or close, but those are simple "box ticking" exercises (to use a UK phrase) that have little meaning to the average user.

Sure, the N86 has a calendar, but it doesn't sync up with the GPS or phone apps very well. I always had to buy Papyrus to automatically dial out a phone number that was in a calendar entry, and that never came out for the n97. On Android and iPhone, it's built in. Android also neatly links addresses in calendar entries to the Maps app.

Of course, if you need uPNP on your phone, then the N86 is for you, but that probably isn't as useful to as many people as a calendar app that is integrated with the other built-in apps.

  #27  
Old 27-07-2010, 06:56 AM
talhamid talhamid is offline
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The level of streamlining within android is shocking and not just limited to calendar. Install any all that performs the same function as any other app and the next time the OS will ask you which to choose. E.g. install a wallpaper app. Next time you seek to set a wallpaper the OS will give you a choice of default it the new app. Same for a for any other app. To a symbian user of which I was one a long time, this is science fiction.

That is just one example. Countless such comparisons can be prepared but the fact is that using a snap dragon powered android for 15 minutes will make you regret you symbian allegiance in a hurry. Sorry that's a little rude but trust me on this. N86 should be bought only if you need a good camera.

  #28  
Old 27-07-2010, 08:36 AM
gadget freak gadget freak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKJeeper View Post
A quick Google search got me this (From Mashable.com)
Google Maps has just been updated yet again. Now on version 4.4 there's a new "Places" icon in the app launcher which will find .. err.. places nearby. There's also business hours and more place details plus you can now tap the "Navigation" icon to drive with 3D maps and live traffic.

  #29  
Old 27-07-2010, 07:07 PM
manual_ manual_ is offline
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What worries me (and annoys) is that this kind of comparisons may make unwary readers believe that real gap between Symbian and Android is smaller than it in fact is. So instead of properly informing readers this feature comparisons only distort the picture. If you want to compare features at least try assigning weights to each point. This should be done because a feature that is hard to use will most likely be used only by hardcore geeks. So what is "1" point to a little group of people will actually be of no value to a vast majority. And I also think comparing phones like this has little to do with how most people evaluate their devices. Ease of use is "a feature" important to most of the people. Whereas upnp, while nice to have, will hardly be a dealbreaker for anyone. Assigning 1 point to both and, more importantly, assigning equal weight to both is nonsense.

  #30  
Old 28-07-2010, 06:33 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Not worrying at all, I"ve tried to reflect my honest opinions about each device and system. Android isn't miles ahead of Symbian. If anything Android is several years behind Symbian, technically, but a year or two ahead in terms of UI flexibility and response, and in terms of Internet integration.

All of which I tried to put into my detailed article. For a weighted Grid of attributes, see my http://3lib.ukonline.co.uk/grid.htm
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