All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

Old 04-09-2009, 09:28 PM
yeah422 yeah422 is offline
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Nokia doesn't have fans. They have customers and end users. People who are fans of profit making businesses are a bit sad.

The phone is not as good as a lot of people wanted or expected, it is disappointing to many but it's not crap. Nokia's goal is not to perturb anything but to sell a lot of phones. One million per month. Nokia have scored their goal. The crazies don't like it and are in denial about it and will clutch straws to discredit the figures.... but in the end it's one million per month for one model of phone out of a range of many phones that are also selling well.

I think it's time to ignore the crazies who are jumping up and down on this thread because the N97 is selling so well. They can't accept it and never will because they have issues.

Crazies, you lose. Now go back to your phallus-operated capacitive screens.
Ah ah ah.

Nokia, like apple, sony, lg etc have his fans. Thanks to them Nokia have free defenders. It's like that. Don't think all their clients are rationals. If it was the case, they will not buy this phone.

Nokia sell a lot of N97. It's great... for them. Because those who bought this device and have bugs can make a bad reputation and push back many potential users. In my job, I can't recommend this phone due to many issues. Today, brand image is also more important than sells. With a bad reputation you can't sell well. Internet can defeat you.

Old 04-09-2009, 10:55 PM
pennas pennas is offline
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Regardless of the buggyness of the N97 on release, it did not excite me as a device. The form factor, the OS, the keyboard, none of it was for me. As it happens, no Nokia device is for me at the moment.

My last 7 phones (spanning 8 years) have all been Nokias, and the last 6 were s60. But the last Nokia device that excited me was the N95 (I then went to an N85 for the small improvements at upgrade time, as there was nothing much better out there).

I've just made the switch to an iPhone 3GS, and i'm certainly not looking back. It's just a superior user experience!! I've been envious of certain aspects of the iPhone for a while, but now it has reached the point where the deal-breakers have been removed (camera with video, satnav, slingplayer). Is there anything I miss, not using an s60 phone any more? Not that I can think of... (the camera is the only thing which is obviously inferior, but as long as there is light it is OK, and the video is great. I have a TZ7 for taking proper pictures).

I'm fully expecting to be tempted by a Nokia handset again in a year or two, but only on a mature platform (the first s60v5 devices were always going to be a bit hit-and-miss). Nokia have obviously fallen behind in software/interface.

But regardless, at the moment i'm enjoying that rare feeling of a much anticipated purchase living up to expectations (and then some). (I should point out here: I jailbroke after 1 day, and could not live without having done that, for customisation/unrestriction reasons. It's sad that I had to, but now that it's done i'm happy!)

Old 05-09-2009, 12:27 AM
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Let me add my 2 pence worth as a long time Nokia user.

I've used Nokia phones it feels like forever, but I saw early on that touch could really increase my productivity on the phone, so I switched to an I-mate K-Jam, qwerty keyboard and touch screen running WinMo 5.0. It was so clumsy to use & bug ridden that i had to find another phone within 6 months, so I switched to the N95-1 - that was also bug filled and had really poor battery performance until a few firmware updates later.

For the switch to N95 I had to compromise on the touch screen that I knew I wanted way back then and already experienced in hand, but hell I needed a phone that worked 1st so I gave up on trying to make my N95 work with all the bells & whistles and used it for calls, SMS and the odd photo / video only, since then I've ignored every other Nokia product until the N97 hype got to me, I thought this time (2 years on) they have to have got it right and can offer a phone worthy of an upgrade??

Now, 3 years on from my I-mate (touch screen & qwerty keyboard) what do I have in the N97, a great battery, a touch screen that I cannot figure when I need to single press or double press. Minimal on board memory that can only have been implemented as a cost cutting exercise, the sms T9 dictionary completely screwed up so you get stupid words like 'vo' twice instead of 'to', a camera that can't use the dual LED flash because it will cover half the pic, A MfE app that still cannot see anything but the in-box or show HTML email, a keyboard (white) that cannot be used under florescent lighting, NO sip client to connect to company PBX (major backwards step). And again I'm jumping though hoops to make it a usable phone, moving apps from C: to E: and zero widgets on the home screen in the hope of conserving memory - I can see this N97 going the same way as my N95 - phone and sms only, that is if the phone doesn't now drop my calls as I has on a number of occasions!

I am not an Apple fan, I've never used one, but I fail to see how anyone can defended this poor imitation of a "smart phone'. This is a clear case of the accountants in charge since so many of the faults could have easily been solve, an extra 128Mb RAM, what would it have cost??

I am a totally disappointed NOKIA customer and they need to bring a lot more than kinetic scrolling to make me happy with my phone. I don't believe NOKIA didn't know about these issues so that just makes me (a loyal customer) feel like I've waited too long and in the end got shafted.

Sad story, that I still hope will get better soon...

Old 05-09-2009, 03:35 AM
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"I reset my iPhone once a day to avoid memory problems".

You won“t see any 3GS owner saying that. Ever. Shows apple learned the lesson, and put enough RAM on the device. On the N97, what happened? Did Nokia learn?"

The reason you need to reset anything daily to avoid memory issues is due to a memory leak. The memory is not being handled properly (by the OS or apps) and less memory is available over time for the user. Adding more RAM does not fix the problem, it only masks it. Similar to a bad chef placing sauce on burned food.

As far as Apple vs Nokia, I think both have gotten a few things right and both have gotten a few things wrong.

Old 05-09-2009, 07:28 AM
juwlz juwlz is offline
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Evolution of S60

On the subject of the evolution of S60, I had to dust off my old E70 (gull-wing) phone last week, as a temporary solution for my mum while I shopped for a more suitable feature phone for her requirements. (For the record, my mum's 72, and recently had a serious brain haemorrhage which means she has rather specific usability requirements. I got her a Nokia 2680, and customised it to suit. It's working wonderfully for her.)

The E70's UI looked positively antiquated. It was difficult to believe it actually was a smartphone at all. In fact, even the 2680's S40 UI knocks spots off it.

My next phone, the E90 (3rd edition, FP1), was a big step forward from the E70, and the N97's OS improves on that, IMHO. (You'll notice a strong QWERTY theme running through those handsets!) Of course it's not perfect, and there are still plenty of (Nokia and 3rd party) apps that really only have a 3rd edition UI - i.e. they don't take the opportunity to use the standard 5 touch-friendly buttons at the very least, but I live in hope that they will catch up sooner or later. And meanwhile, at least the 3rd edition apps will (mostly) run on 5th edition and are usable, if not especially user-friendly.


Old 05-09-2009, 08:44 AM
bartmanekul bartmanekul is offline
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My perception of Nokia is that they have gone downhill drastically, and I can't really see how anyone can defend the decisions they have been making.

Lets start with the hardware - Nokia used to be the cutting edge of hardware, their handsets were constantly in the lead with features, that genrally worked well.

Now, they are being overtaken, especially by Samsung.

Lets look at their flagship device for a minute.

The processor cannot cut it. The RAM cannot cut it. It has massive hardware issues, namely the GPS (this is not a firmware/software problem in many cases) and the camera lens.

What exactly are you getting for £500 odd? Old processor, little RAM - about the only noteworthy things are the keyboard and storage, and thats it.

If your N97 works well for you, all good. But I am growing tired of hearing that now common Nokia mantra - 'It'll get better with the upcoming firmware release.'

You what? It's been out months already, people who have one that's got so many issues are having to wait until it gets this so far mythical FW update to use it as it should be.

So, S60. S60 V5, is it being improved, well not really. Oh yes, we have widgets and various improvements, but where on earth are the things that people have been asking for years ago with S60 V3?

The contacts are still a joke, especially viewing them. And is there calender integration yet? There isn't on my 5800. The calender, that still sucks on S60 V5. A lot of feedback from 5800 users said the calender was very fiddly to use, since they kept it the same size as V3 devices, yet you have to try and touch it.

The only interesting thing about the recent show was the X6, yet my i8910 still beats it in almost every department and it's 7 months old. And yet they are not doing an X6 without CWM. So people with the 5800 wanting an upgrade have to pay an extra 50-70 for something they probably don't want (or possibly already have).

Maemo - great. But thats for the future. Do they really think theres going to be as many initial takers after the failure that was the N97? And when I say failure, I don't mean sales figures, I mean the amount of discontent it has brought to previously loyal Nokia customers.

And the netbook (sorry, mobile laptop, or whatever it's called. Dispite having an atom processor and 10" screen), what on earth is all that about? They say moving to Maemo is so they can have it across various platforms, then they stick windows 7 on the netbook. Eh?

Theres people who are on their 5th N97, and still sticking with it. And people say Apple have fanboys.

The N95 was riddled with issues, and yet Nokia decided not to learn and have repeated the mistake. The N85 was a joke of quality control, and the N97 is also. My local NSC no longer sells N series because they are fed up of the returns.

No, I'm not making any grand statements like Nokia are going to fail, because they won't. They have simply pissed off a load of people that were previously loyal, or at least held them in good standing.

For me, I love my 5800, but really wanted something that was an upgrade, so had to go for a i8910, and, I haven't seen ANY N series that well made.

Old 05-09-2009, 09:13 AM
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jared said

"The N95-1? try this: clean boot, launch the camera, exit the camera -> now try to open, say, maps. right you can't. reboot, open maps, exit maps -> now try to launch the camera. right, you can't. The N95 was horribly flawed by too little RAM."


I just tried this on my N95 -1, and had no difficulty whatsoever running both applications. Kind of undermines the rest of your pronouncements.

ab0895 said

"The OS on the N97 is more irritating than anything else".


More irritating than the scratched lens? Or the GPS / Maps combination which places you in the next street, or approaching the roundabout, when you are already round it, and 200yds down the road?

Devices are about 2 things:- WHAT they do, and HOW they do it. All this carp about interfaces! If they don't function correctly, what use are they at all? Only after they function correctly can you decently consider HOW they function.

Nokia have chucked this Alpha product onto the market, taking the p*ss out of their loyal customer base, who are buying Nokia because they have a track record of strong functionality, knowing that the means of delivery will be improved as time goes on.

How they have the cheek to release this dud onto the market with its present defects is beyond belief for a top company.

Imagine what would happen if Ford released a new model onto the market, with steering which pulled to the left all the time, and windscreen wipers which scratched your windscreen. There'd be an outcry, and a recall. Well, they just wouldn't do it.

What is the most irritating thing for me about my £500 purchase from Nokia is the fact that they won't accept their liability for all this.

It takes a long time to establish customer loyalty, but, in today's increasingly fickle customer world, with increasing competition, Nokia are playing a dangerous game with their existing customers. They can no longer be trusted to come up with the goods "out of the box".

Thank God I still have my N95.

Old 05-09-2009, 11:27 AM
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Thumbs down Nokia is Disillusioned

Look at the number of products Nokia is launching? They are only bothered about releasing phones. Once they release it, they forget about their old customers.

Nokia has gone pathetic. Period.

Look at other phone companies like Samsung, LG. Look at their quality of phones. They are much better than Nokia ones.

Those who dont like iPhone don't actually realize Iphone OS is much more stable and better than Nokia's Symbian.

Just look at developer support iPhone has. Look at iPhone apps like Yahoo Messenger, Facebook, Skype. Nokia has nothing !!! Absolutely nothing in applications department.

Old 05-09-2009, 12:36 PM
oniox oniox is offline
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Lightbulb No, its you that is disillusioned not Nokia

fyi Nokias s60 has yahoo messenger, Nimbuzz works a treat and supports multiple messengers and voip calls. Nokia has a facebook client in any case it does not have to as the web version works quite ok same goes for twitter. Actually they just announced a venture with facebook.

So iPhone OS is better than Symbian OS ? that clearly explains why my Symbian based Nokia 5800 can do so many things at once without blinking while the iPhone OS cannot. I wont even go into battery life or support for higher spec camera to mention but a few.

You have the right to stay deluded.

Enjoy your iPhone.

Old 05-09-2009, 01:04 PM
yeah422 yeah422 is offline
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The iPhone have not extraordinary specifications like N97 but it works!!! Even you're a geek, all you want from a device cost 700 euros is that it works!! It's simple!
The N97 is actually a failure even in using, even if Nokia say they sold 2 millions. Moreover I think that 2 millions wil not be happy about their devices and will not buy Nokias anymore...

Old 05-09-2009, 04:14 PM
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Nokia is shipping more N97 in developing markets

Nokia smartphones are getting marginalized in markets like US and Europe where users have access to blackberries, iPhone etc. In places like India, middle east Apple and RIMM don't have the distribution channel of Nokia. Not to mention rival phones are expensive compared to Nokia phones, for instance in Indian market iPhone costs more then N97 and even after that you need to buy a data plan. So N97 "shipped" (not sold) two million unit mostly in Asia because of the distribution network and not due to phone itself.

Old 05-09-2009, 05:41 PM
ebo ebo is offline
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In my opinion paying customers have all the right to be angry and disappointed, if a product worth 650 EUR is as buggy as N97 was when shipping, and almost as buggy even now after two software updates.

It seems there are, however, Symbian fans who want to understate these problems. Maybe they've got a free testing unit? Maybe they're so techy themselves that they don't even see bugs anymore?

I have used N97 for six weeks and it has made me angry and frustrated for several times. The features are nice, I admit, and I like those widgets and other new enhancements in the S60 touch UI (compared to Nokia 5800 XM).

But in terms of stability and performance, N97 does not yet perform as you'd expect from a smartphone vendor's current flagship product.

Fortunately, apart from the camera lens scratching problems in N97 which are a hardware issue, software problems can be fixed with firmware updates. And as far as I know, Nokia is intensively focusing on this as we speak. I look forward to the 2.0 software update scheduled for October (2009, I hope).

Last edited by ebo; 05-09-2009 at 05:44 PM. Reason: corrected typos

Old 05-09-2009, 06:01 PM
Super Chimp Super Chimp is offline
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What annoys me is the shameful lack of coverage of the i8910HD on here compared to the amount of attention lavished on the N97. All the more shocking considering it's prominent position amongst S60 devices as possible the best TS device.

Old 05-09-2009, 06:24 PM
Mr Mark Mr Mark is offline
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Nokia smartphones are getting marginalized in markets like US and Europe where users have access to blackberries, iPhone etc. In places like India, middle east Apple and RIMM don't have the distribution channel of Nokia. Not to mention rival phones are expensive compared to Nokia phones, for instance in Indian market iPhone costs more then N97 and even after that you need to buy a data plan. So N97 "shipped" (not sold) two million unit mostly in Asia because of the distribution network and not due to phone itself.
Wrong. EMEA sales remain strong.

Old 05-09-2009, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Super Chimp View Post
What annoys me is the shameful lack of coverage of the i8910HD on here compared to the amount of attention lavished on the N97. All the more shocking considering it's prominent position amongst S60 devices as possible the best TS device.
I suspect there are 2 main reasons for that. Firstly, Samsung appear to have been reluctant to distribute units for review, meaning that sites such as AAS had to wait ages to get one. Secondly, and probably far more relevant, is the fact that Samsung have not released any firmware updates (AFAIK), so there is not really much to discuss. Apart from that, AAS was very favourable about the i8910HD.

Mind you, if Samsung want to increase the profile of their devices, they could do with some better names; i8910HD hardly trips off the tongue...


nokia, perception

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