All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

Old 11-04-2009, 12:14 PM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Why I Don't Use The S60 PIM Apps

A question that has cropped up a few times since I took the Nokia 5800 to the recent Getting Things Done Conference in America is how I organise my time using GTD principles on my smartphone. And the honest answer is that I don't use a smartphone at all. I still use paper. Why? Let me explain...

Read on in the full article.

Old 11-04-2009, 12:28 PM
piet hein
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I Totally agree

with your story. But since I don't want to return to paper and pencil it looks like we have to deal with it. Or does anybody know some good 3rd party alternatives out there?

Old 11-04-2009, 01:31 PM
Mobile Observer
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I agree, S60 Messages and Calendar are steming pile of turds.

Old 11-04-2009, 01:56 PM
neilhoskins neilhoskins is offline
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Handy Calendar isn't too bad, but you shouldn't be having to install 3rd party apps. We've now got handsets with keyboards and touch screens, so the hardware is pretty much back to the Psion Series 5 and 7 standard, so there's no reason why we can't have decent built-in apps again.

Old 11-04-2009, 03:04 PM
Bobagent Bobagent is offline
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As someone who posed the GTD question on the e75 article I found that an interesting read.
My girlfriend keeps pretty much the same system and thinks I spend too long making GTD lists without actually doing things!! (I think it's a male thing!!)

I currently have Lotus Notes in work and use a Centro to sync but XTNDConnect (40 quid it cost me) always messes up the categories so has become a waste of time. My n95 syncs but the to-dos are shocking.

Having toyed all week with BB vs iPhone I think I'm going to plump for the BB. It looks a bit crap on the UI front but having played on my brother's I'm convinced it will do fine as a categorised to-do list.

FYI Once upon a time I was an s60 programmer on the 7650 (those days are long gone) I'm 99.9% sure categories were definitely there within a calendar entry but, much to my dismay, never used. It could have just been a relic from old epoc32 code though.

Old 11-04-2009, 03:21 PM
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jah jah is offline
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Category and notes support are critical for a PIM

A complex life requiring organisation is where a PIM should be able to add value. I use my Nokia E90 and 5800 in conjunction with all the following just to get over the PIM limitations of S60 and S60 3rd party apps:
- Palm OS I use Agendus
- WM 6.1 I use AgendaOne
- EPOC I use a REVO, MX5 or a Psion 7

Never use paper as sync with Outlook means I can use multiple devices depending on the situation.

The sad thing is that even with the 5800 and N97, the need for finger friendly apps means that we are unlikely to get sophisticated PIM support. Just hope Nokia see the light with the next Communicator.

Last edited by jah; 11-04-2009 at 03:24 PM.

Old 11-04-2009, 05:53 PM
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I would recommend checking out for an online GTD manager.

You can use it to manage your goals, projects and tasks, set next actions and contexts, use checklists, schedules and a calendar.
A mobile version is available too.

Old 11-04-2009, 06:39 PM
crnkovic crnkovic is offline
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Handy Contacts?

It couldn't be more true. I use Handy Calendar since its release. And I can't wait to get Handy Contacts if there will be any, someday.

Old 11-04-2009, 07:10 PM
The Mind Doctor
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Paper is king BUT...

I have been on and off paper for a very long time. I have been on and off many platforms on smartphones for a very long time. When it comes to data entry, I agree that paper is the easiest and quickest way to do things. Also its the most versatile. I found the intellectual(or Geeky!) take on doodling(re:"custom tool") very interesting :-) . Having said all that, I still feel there is merit to "digital" PIMS.

I personally did not fancy any Symbian 3rd party apps useful(Papyrus-now Calendar, I think, came close). I bought many Wndows Mobile phones, but like many Windows devices and machines, they have a very irritating habit of crashing. I now own an iPhone, but there are no good all-in-one PIMS app. I was disappointed by Pocket Informant for iPhone. That brings to my current set up. iPhone for all my communication and entertainment needs-email, surfing, gaming, utilities, etc AND HP iPaq 214 enterprise Pocket PC(no phone). Its remarkable how pocket pcs are much more stable without the phones. I have installed Pocket Informant for Wndows mobile on it. I find this setup working for me. Pocket Informant for Wndows mobile has matured over the years, and its very versatile. Searching for appointments, converting tasks into appointments and vice versa, flexibility of how you want your info to be displayed...everything works superb.

In summary, its not in the data entry that digital excels but in what you can do with the data. Its one of those things-it gets slightly worse before it gets better.

I appreciate this is not strictly symbian or even about an all-in-one smartphone set up. But my point being, paper has some advantages; it's not that much a clear winner in my world.

Thanks for an enjoyable read.

Old 11-04-2009, 07:11 PM
Zuber Zuber is offline
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One of the reasons I still have a liking for WinMo is that it offers easy Category support and has some really nice 3rd party power PIM apps.

I think Nokia are just plain stupid to have spent so many years without adding category support. (despite endless end user requests). There are a whole load of enterprise users that probably just dismiss using Symbian because it does not sync well with Outlook.

It does in fact sync. very well these days. But if it does not have category support, then it's just too complex to manage. Especially when you are looking to sync. both work and home and don't want the personal stuff on the work machine etc. (sync. would need to cater for categories...)


Old 11-04-2009, 08:11 PM
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still using my Psion Revo

Thank you Ewan, you are absolutely right! I came from a Psion 3c and use my Revo for many years now. Even from the 3c to the Revo was a downgrade (views). With every new Nokia device I hope for a real Agenda (instead of the crippled Calendar). And the Outlook to-do-lists are unusable also.

Software engineers all over the world: please give use back the Psion Agenda on any mobile device! I'd even change the platform ... well, no WinMo please ;-)

To be honest: I heard from GTD last week the first time ever and started reading something about it. Only to find out, that I use this method since my first Psion 3c. "Drowned in tears" I think about buying a Psion 5mx (it's still available brand-new here in Germany).

Or just paper - but a small Moleskine will do, no big Filofax needed.

Old 11-04-2009, 08:50 PM
juwlz juwlz is offline
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Google Calendar

I use Google Calendar, in which I have 9 calendars (or categories if you prefer) of my own, a number of which are shared with my partner, and I have read-only access to several more (including two which belong to my partner, plus UK holidays and F1 race dates via iCal).

I use the paid version of GooSync to sync all of them with my phone (using configurable prefixes on the phone).

Even then, I still need to add something separate for ToDos (I use a combination of Remember The Milk and Backpack - each has their strengths, particularly when it comes to repeating To Dos and reminders, but both leave something to be desired for my way of working).

I too used and loved the Psion 5 Agenda, and supplemented that with RMRTask (I was a great fan of a number of RMR applications), and I still haven't found anything close on S60. Back in those days my Psion was my only means of organisation. These days I want to share my Calendar(s) with others, and I spend more time in front of a computer, so an online solution suits me better.

I've used Papyrus, and then Handy Calendar, and tried others on S60, but it's a real shame that even with 3rd party apps, there's still nothing to hold a candle to the PIM apps on the good ol' Psion.


Old 12-04-2009, 09:02 AM
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I guess its a question of how much and to what degree you use PIM apps.

Me - I couldn't run my life without the standard S60 Contacts and Calender Apps, and to a lesser extent the To Do List.

However, if I want to plan my work for the day, then it's a sheet of A4. Been that way all my working life. No mater whether its been a Pocket PC, Windows Smartphone, Palm or Symbian device, nothing beats a simple sheet of A4 for ticking off tasks, writing down phone numbers, writing important things IN BIG BOLD TEXT (when they need doing urgently).

A Windows Mobile touchscreen device came nearest to the speed and convenience, but simply too prone to crashing and losing notes.

I just question whether, amongst all the platforms out there, those users that want 110% functionality from their PIM apps cannot find any software to match the 'yardstick' set by the Psion 5mx?

Old 12-04-2009, 12:51 PM
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Nokia should see the GTD / PIM light

Nokia has been trying to break into US and enterprise for ages. All they managed to do so far is to produce superior phones in terms of construction and hardware, but getting inferior in terms of PIM/software with almost every release.

How much would it take to:

- benchmark all best handheld PIMs
- to do real world testing for various personas/scenarios/use cases
- combine the best of the both worlds - may be 2hand and 1hand UIs
- update PC Sync to this millenium - include categories
- update all iCal/google sync/mac/outlook/etc major syncs - straight out of the box (didn't they spend a few hundred mil to get this acquisition some time back...)
- Put it as standard on all their E-series phones
- advertise, evangelize, listen & improve

I can guarantee that within two years they would be wiping the floor with RIM and iPhone in terms of PIM/time management/GTD/calendar/todo/planning features.

Why Nokia or other Symbian players don't see this market is beyond me.

If they let it stay for long enough, Apple, RIM, Google or Microsoft are sure going to crack it within a year or two.

Time to get coding guys!

Old 13-04-2009, 02:22 PM
Antoine of MMM Antoine of MMM is offline
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PIM apps (default and 3rd party) for S60 doesn't follow any sensible principles of use (UX) at all.

All mobile devices need to start with what Palm did and move from there. Frankly, the fact that S60v5 hasn't done so is pretty appaling.

Since moving to S60, I've used PIM a whole lot less frequently, and its totally a UX issue. Sad really. Because a solid PIM suite would endear this platform to being more noticeable for all users.


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