All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

  #1  
Old 22-12-2009, 05:26 PM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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What can Symbian learn from Sony?

It's been a rough year for the Symbian ecosystem, and an especially rough year for their partners. Samsung and Sony Ericsson have taken their portion of the punishment, but the lion's share belongs, for good or ill, to Nokia. The ecosystem strikes me as remarkably like another that last year was on the way down, but is now in good health.

Read on in the full article.

  #2  
Old 22-12-2009, 06:07 PM
cygni
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Re-re-invent

I believe nokia know that they were making fault. They just don't know how to fix it.

Once upon a time there were Erricson at top of the chart. At another time, motorola has too. 2010 is the time that Nokia must show their user that they would still be number one, or Nokia would go to where Ericsson and Motorola now.

As a fan of nokia and have purchase 4 nokia (over 7 years) for myself, and recommend a successfull buy of (another) 9 nokia (in 7 years) to my family (mom, dad, wife). I must said that I have not bought any new nokia for the past 2 1/2 year for my self.

In my humble oppinion, Nokia current problem is their lack to use the best hardware out there. They seem shy to use & advertise the best hardware.

Last year, when I was in airport in China, I saw an advertisement of another brand smartphone. And it said "Using the fastest CPU... 600MHz". At that time Nokia fastest phone only using 369MHz CPU. And I see a lot of denial from nokia supporter that symbian is a very efficient OS, and it don't need 369MHz CPU. And now, nokia using 600MHz CPU on some express music model & all new E-series but not the S60v5 N series??? Nokia seriously need to learn that we (nokia addict) expect the fastest CPU on their flagship N-series devices too. This kind of attitude confuse nokia user.

Other than CPU..... LED vs. Xenon light... AMOLED??? low-capacity on C-drive. I was wondering how much nokia must spent to make E72/N97/N97-mini/N86 have a 2GB C-drive. For that much money user giving nokia to get that shiny devices, I really believe we deserve to be spoiled with 2GB C-drive.

*Note... I believe we need 2 GB C-drive, as all SMS/MMS/email were put on the C-drive as default... and also browsing cache, apps installation. Having a small C-drive would make these smartphone crippled by non-symbian geek.

Nokia really SHOULD acknowledge this problem, or they won't be numero uno again.

  #3  
Old 22-12-2009, 08:20 PM
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Predicting a resurgence in Nokia/Symbian based on the fortunes of the PSP seems to be stretching the bounds of credibility and assumption a might too far. The sales of the PSP Go have hardly set the world on fire being 'broadly in line with expectations' with Sony's own targets.

I'm reminded of the hype before the launch of the PS3 - the Omega console to end all consoles. We all know how that's panned out and whilst Nintendo have such broad appeal to the mobile gamer what evidence is there to expect the PSP Go will turn Sony's fortunes around convincingly in this sector?

To suggest that Nokia should look to the PSP in an attempt to reinvigourate their fortunes (allbeit in mindshare rather than out-and-out sales) just seems to be the ramblings of someone whose next comment will be 'wow I've really got the munchies, will someone nip down the petrol station and get some Pringles as I have some chronic munchies.'

Last edited by morpheus2702; 22-12-2009 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Typo

  #4  
Old 23-12-2009, 12:38 AM
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Morpheus,

Sony's PSP ecosystem was on the rise during all of 2009, not just since October and the PSP-Go launch. I'll agree with you that the PSP Go is a misfire (the article even says so) but it boosted sales of the PSP-3000, still on sale. The PSP outsold the Nintendo DS a number of times this year, and the unit and game sales are on the rise.

Sony spotted a mistake and turned it round. If Symbian and Nokia are as pro-active as Sony, then why wouldn't they be able to have the same press, media and consumer turnaround? The article merely points out there is precedent in such a turnaround.
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  #5  
Old 23-12-2009, 02:29 AM
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Just two comments:

1. the PSP never had a problem since inception, where I am based. It's the most common device I see on the commute, followed by an iphone.

2. Nokia screwed itself by denying lassez faire apps with that silly certification scheme (remember Fexplorer's problems). So it estranged devs who happily joined the iphone platform, whose avalanche of apps selection sucked in lots of people. the iphone is not a phone, it's a mobile extension of itunes.

  #6  
Old 23-12-2009, 07:08 AM
src441988
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@ Ewan,
psp sales have surpassed ds sales a no. of times because, ds sales have already reached a saturation point and very few want a 2nd ds. psp, on the other hand, can only improve from the barrel they are in.
on the other hand, nokia has lost its path completely. it has become a vicious cycle for them - sticking good hardware to phones are of no use because of lack of software, and their cheap hardware policy along with many other factors have prevented developers from making good apps/games. nokia are failing due to 3 reasons:
1. they haven't been able to educate the user. more than 90% of symbian users don't know that their phone can do anything beyond imaging, surfing, listening to audio. this has disheartened the developers and the software catalog has suffered.
2. the greatest strength of symbian - reasonable performance on low-grade hardware has become the greatest weakness. the device manufacturers are targeting at the lowest common denominator, which never causes good for a platform.
3. they have made life excruciatingly difficult for the developers. afaik, coding for symbian is much tougher than other platforms. add to that signing issues, lack of a proper sales channel and the previous two reasons, and you have a formula for failure.

saying "we shall overcome" with gritted teeth does not improve situation. i don't see any comprehensive planning on their part for the next year, when iphone 4 and more android and windows mobile handsets will be launched.

  #7  
Old 23-12-2009, 11:11 AM
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Store sales

I wonder why Phones don't really have the equivalent of disc or cartridge sales? Standardize on some cheap format that you can just plugin to install, then sell them in convenience stores like topup cards. You'd capture the Mum and Auntie and Grandma market that is never going to use Ovi Store to buy something for their young family members. Can you even use Ovi Store and it's equivalents to buy something for someone else? You can get iTunes gift cads I guess.

e.g. a mini/micro-usb connector with a little bit of memory attached and embedded in some colorful cardboard can't be that expensive, can it?
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  #8  
Old 23-12-2009, 12:39 PM
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> saying "we shall overcome" with gritted teeth does not improve situation. i don't see any comprehensive planning on their part for the next year, when iphone 4 and more android and windows mobile handsets will be launched.

As a mobile industry analyst and mobile developer I have to say this sort of argument is utter nonsense I am afraid. People (and alas many in the media, both pros and bloggers, and especially most of the US based media) radically underestimate Nokia, and radically overestimate the competition.

Android is still extremely insignificant, it really is. Hype does not equal handsets in people's hands or even the promise of the platform. Hype is hot air, that's all it is. Android has miniscule market share, is a brand not that well known in the US where it is strongest and almost totally unknown elsewhere (as proven by recent research). It is also technically and structurally immature and is beset by continually changing APIs in the OS, and by a VERY weak app store (with more problems than Ovi Store) and is already seeing fragmentation from a developer point of view. It is just plain ignorant to hold it up as some knight in shining armour, because it's surely a LONG way off from that.

I'm not quite sure why you mention Windows Mobile (Phone). The last rites are being read over that platform. Carriers (networks) are deserting in droves, as are consumers - it dropped over 33% smartphone market share in the last year to under 9%, and even the latest shiniest version is broken and shows Microsoft STILL don't get it (and I bet never will).

iPhone 4? Great. It will remain a niche product though, eternally. Most people (as in, 99% of all phone users, according to current market shares) can't afford the outrageous overall cost or want technically superior hardware (not difficult to find). A lovely handset, but you don't see everyone driving Ferarris round the streets do you?

Nokia and Symbian have a much brighter future than people expect - credit them with the ability to learn from their mistakes.

  #9  
Old 23-12-2009, 01:07 PM
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What an insult to Sony. They make class products, not rubbish like Nokia that often feels like it's a Chinese knock off - and built to match.

  #10  
Old 23-12-2009, 01:18 PM
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seeing as we are having a nokia bash here il add my tuppence worth too.what i wanna see sorted is this inability to connect to other than once to wpa/wpa2 access protected wifi points namely my sky broadband.iv a windows xp laptop a desktop and a linux netbook that connect really quickly to sky but its nice just to have the portability of a mobile there ready to use.now my winge-iv had an e90,still got an e71 and my mrs just got me the e63(i message a lot so like the qwerty).all iv given up with trying to use with sky.iv been through everything but no luck.you should nt have to pee about to get these things to work!i dont with the htc hero iv got or my tytn2 so for sheer portability you can work out what gets used here.

nokia had so much going for it at one time some still think it has but its slowly waining here im sorry to say.

  #11  
Old 23-12-2009, 01:51 PM
cygni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
> saying "we shall overcome" with gritted teeth does not improve situation. i don't see any comprehensive planning on their part for the next year, when iphone 4 and more android and windows mobile handsets will be launched.

As a mobile industry analyst and mobile developer I have to say this sort of argument is utter nonsense I am afraid. People (and alas many in the media, both pros and bloggers, and especially most of the US based media) radically underestimate Nokia, and radically overestimate the competition.

Android is still extremely insignificant, it really is. Hype does not equal handsets in people's hands or even the promise of the platform. Hype is hot air, that's all it is. Android has miniscule market share, is a brand not that well known in the US where it is strongest and almost totally unknown elsewhere (as proven by recent research). It is also technically and structurally immature and is beset by continually changing APIs in the OS, and by a VERY weak app store (with more problems than Ovi Store) and is already seeing fragmentation from a developer point of view. It is just plain ignorant to hold it up as some knight in shining armour, because it's surely a LONG way off from that.

I'm not quite sure why you mention Windows Mobile (Phone). The last rites are being read over that platform. Carriers (networks) are deserting in droves, as are consumers - it dropped over 33% smartphone market share in the last year to under 9%, and even the latest shiniest version is broken and shows Microsoft STILL don't get it (and I bet never will).

iPhone 4? Great. It will remain a niche product though, eternally. Most people (as in, 99% of all phone users, according to current market shares) can't afford the outrageous overall cost or want technically superior hardware (not difficult to find). A lovely handset, but you don't see everyone driving Ferarris round the streets do you?

Nokia and Symbian have a much brighter future than people expect - credit them with the ability to learn from their mistakes.
Hi,

I agree with you that Android is really hyped by American media. Google control in android is a double edge sword. The windows mistake is that is NOT meant for mobile device. and it's user interface (was) bad on phone. iPhone is a bit different. It's good for those who wanna cosmetic looks on their device.

Now, back to the Nokia....... I'm a NOKIA ADDICT. Since my Nokia 3650 (as my 3rd handphone), I ALWAYS bought a nokia. I love symbian/nokia because symbian/nokia *IS* the best OS/phone combination that I ever used.

Now... back to the Nokia mistake.... As I mention that nokia has a C-drive low memory fault. It's a pain in the a** for me. My current remedy is to use the memory card to store SMS/MMS/email. Though this would make my Nokia E-61i lose the ability to hot swap it's micro-SD. This is happened since the beginning of my Nokia 3650.

Second nokia mistake.... Not powerfull CPU.... Current web pages is becoming more complex. And nokia really need to use more powerfull CPU in their lineup. Current E-series has good 600MHz CPU, but their N-series flagship only have the 434MHz CPU... why?

Third nokia mistake... bigger screen pixel. QVGA in their top of the line E-series (E-72/E75) is really a joke. If Nokia really think that QVGA is good for their phone diversity, they need to make E-72/E-75 with QVGA, then E80/E81 with nHD (640x360). At least.... let user choosee...

Let me say this one more time... I'am a nokia addict. Since using the Nokia 3650, I never use another brand/OS. And I still use my aging Nokia E61i.... I WANNA UPGRADE... unfortunately, I fell that nokia has not create any phone that can make me fell as proud as when I first bought my E61i... please nokia.... when you make your flagship device... either it's an E series or N series or X series.... make sure it has nHD+600MHz CPU+Carl Zeis Lens.!!!!!

E series top_of_the_line user want a Carl Zeis & nHD too.!!!
N series top_of_the_line user want a 600MHz CPU too!!!!
so does X series top_of_the_line.

This is NOT the year to use underpower CPU on your flagship device.... We don't care if you use 369MHz CPU + un-known camera lens on your US$200 Nokia Do-Re-Mi-Fa (4digit model number). BUT when we talk of the US$ 400+ device... you need to give us the best specs for our money.

  #12  
Old 23-12-2009, 02:55 PM
kevmc kevmc is offline
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Nokia down but not out!

Hi Ewan,

An interesting article on the ecosystem and some interesting comments from others too about Nokia.

From my perspective as a Nokia employee in Symbian Devices (SD), I can only echo what others have said on this site about Nokia, and we are doing our best to rectify many of the problems identified by many within the market and within Nokia. Thank you for not loosing faith with Nokia- I can tell you there is a lot of exciting stuff going on with SD, and for sure Symbian is not out of the race, far from it.

It is interesting how so many people judge Symbian OS on the UI. It is definately true that Nokia has taken too long fixing this, but watch out next year! I believe there will be a renewed interest in Symbian OS once others see what Nokia is doing with the UI.

For more information see the investor section of our site (Nokia Capital Market Day) http://cmd.nokia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c...&p=irol-hosted or look at AAS review as this is a great summary>> http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...n_for_2010.php


I am really excited by what we are doing in Symbian Devices. Having been part of the acquisition from Symbian into Nokia, I can honestly say I see an organisation that is truly acknowledging the problems, has plans to fix them and more than that has a strategy to recapture the smartphone market. I have seen so many changes in this last year at Nokia that I can tell you it is not the organisation it was this time last year.

So Happy Christmas and a very Merry New Year.

Cheers,

Kevin

  #13  
Old 23-12-2009, 03:38 PM
cygni
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Originally Posted by kevmc View Post
Hi Ewan,
I am really excited by what we are doing in Symbian Devices. Having been part of the acquisition from Symbian into Nokia, I can honestly say I see an organisation that is truly acknowledging the problems, has plans to fix them and more than that has a strategy to recapture the smartphone market. I have seen so many changes in this last year at Nokia that I can tell you it is not the organisation it was this time last year.

So Happy Christmas and a very Merry New Year.

Cheers,

Kevin
Hi Kevin,

Seeing your post make my day feels great. I just hope that nokia FAST ENOUGH to throw good product. I've been 2 and 1/2 year using my E61i and really jealous seeing non-nokia user with their shining device. I wanna show them too that the company I stand by with has a product that can make they jealous.

Please.... please.......

  #14  
Old 23-12-2009, 04:28 PM
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Well it should really be what can Nokia learn from Sony shouldn't it?

The Symbian Foundation itself appears to be very weak at the moment for a variety of reasons. There was a large under estimation of the 3rd party IP problems - they hadn't been able to boot OS with the sources for a scary period of time. The Qt strategy although looking like it has potential is problematic in that I think most people are waiting for Qt to be part of the platform first before investing any time in Symbian devices whilst simultaneously wondering whether Symbian will just get sidelined by Nokia. Even if the debate over whether Android is really a competitor to the iPhone, the companies who would have historically been working on Symbian devices have aggressive projects in progress on Android. This has destroyed the assumption/gamble that there would be a large non-Nokia activity in Symbian OS because they're all working on Android!

So it's all in Nokia's hands. Yes, let's hope they use some decent hardware instead of skimming BOM costs and hope that the Qt gamble pays off too. IMO the Symbian Foundation may only be relevant in years to come if Nokia can create a truly desirable Symbian based product in 2010/11 otherwise Symbian OS will be mothballed and SF will be left with a lot of dodgy artwork and a lot of dead code.

  #15  
Old 23-12-2009, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by src441988 View Post
@ Ewan,
psp sales have surpassed ds sales a no. of times because, ds sales have already reached a saturation point and very few want a 2nd ds. psp, on the other hand, can only improve from the barrel they are in.
.

Not so. We now have a DSi liteXL due in the Uk Mar/April 2010. I, like hundreds of thousands of others will upgrade.
 

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