All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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Old 04-09-2009, 08:31 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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The world's going megapixel CRAZY and I feel like crying

As you'll see from the photo below, 12 megapixel camera phones are now starting to be sold on the High Street. On the face of it, more is usually better in a specifications battle, so why should I be so irritated by the latest battlefront? Read on for my thoughts on why the entire phone market is being somewhat misled.

Read on in the full article.

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Old 04-09-2009, 08:37 AM
yade yade is offline
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I agree with this nonsense. Although I see the benefits in detail of 8mpx over 5mpx I think 5mpx would suit almost everyone and 8mpx is the maximum that should be expected. It is marketing for the general public, i have quite a few less techy mates who would say their phone has an 8mpix cam compared to 3 or 5 so they think it is better so its a marketing ploy that works in selling phones.

I personally would prefer to see 8mpx being worked on to provide better low light performance (e.g. N86) the option of Zenon and bring back optical zoom.

There is a rumour that Samsung will do a Pixon 12 with optical zoom but I doubt the sensor size will increase

  #3  
Old 04-09-2009, 08:42 AM
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12 mp

As many people here I am an N97 user, but suppose I make a photo of a crowd, wouldn't it be better to have a 12 MP camera when I want to zoom in on the photo to see if I recognise people in the distance? Or would the small sensor ruin that advantage?

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Old 04-09-2009, 08:49 AM
Jejoma Jejoma is offline
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If only the manufacturers could forget this competition to have the most pixels and instead compete for the best lens!
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Old 04-09-2009, 08:53 AM
pintofale pintofale is offline
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Steve - take a deep breath and relax. Such products exist to sweep up the muppets, those who are too lazy to enquire. They are, in the words of Lord Sugar's legendary Ratnerism, a "mug's eyefull".

  #6  
Old 04-09-2009, 09:31 AM
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stuclark stuclark is offline
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And which phones are you using at the moment Steve? (and do at least 2 of them happen to have 8MP cameras?)

Megapixels SELL - its as simple as that! The average consumer doesn't care less what OS, processor, flash, or screen is on a device; they just want to know if it looks cool, can play their music loud enough, and how many MPix the camera has.

I think you'll find, however, that life is going to start slowing down now - Samsung aren't going to flood the market with12MP cams tomorrow, for now it's just the Pixon (with some more maybe following next year) but most of their range is still sat at 5MP with a few (3 or 4) 8MP cam phones.

SonyEricsson will launch one 12MP cam phone this year, in October, but as most of the rest of their range is still sitting at 5MP or lower, they won't be flooding the market either.

Nokia have got.... 1 phone above 5MP and don't seem too keen on putting their 8MP module into new phones (based on recent announcements), so it's safe to say they won't be launching any 12MP cams in the next couple of months.

Eldar (who usually knows these things) has stated that the MPix war is essentially now over, with most manufacturers taking until 2011 to reach the 8MP / 12MP level across their ranges; with only one or two (Samsung, SonyEricsson) releasing niche phones with 15MP cams...

... so there's not going to be as much to rant about in the future...!

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Old 04-09-2009, 09:37 AM
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Although there is little benefit to more MP vs better lenses, decent distance between sensor and lens, etc. there is one benefit... If you take a picture in focus at full resolution and end up with something 4000 x 3000 pixels, when you resize it to 1000 x 768 it will usually look very sharp.

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Old 04-09-2009, 09:40 AM
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I agree with your article Steve and also agree that most purposes of printing photos for the album or emailing or viewing on the computer monitor, 5 MP pics (or 3MP) should more than suffice.

BUT there are occasions where a larger image helps. As an example, I recently wanted to enlarge an image (really enlarge) of me and my wife and hang it on the wall of my room. My target photo size was 3 feet wide and 2 feet tall. Luckily, the image was clicked on my 10MP Sony Cybershot camera and the photoshop had absolutely no issues in creating a photo of that size for me (and on canvas!! ) Now had the camera been a 3MP or a 5MP one (though admittedly an 8MP might have sufficed), I am sure the picture hanging on my wall would not have been created with the clarity that it currently has. (I must also admit that the hardware of the camera did play a bigger role in capturing detail rather than the 10MP capability).

12 MP might be an overkill for casual photographers like you and me, but it might help the professional ones. But then, who has ever heard of a professional photographer using a camera phone (they probably dont use anything else apart from SLRs).

8MP is fine. Now bring on larger sensors, optical zooms, better flashes, etc.

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Old 04-09-2009, 09:40 AM
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Here here! Matthew 6:22 also applies nicely. ^_^

Give me a 5 mega pixel camera with a 5 times optical zoom and I'll be happy until about 2014.

... Just wait until the 3D battle kicks off Steve. Man it's going to get crazy then believe me.
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  #10  
Old 04-09-2009, 09:44 AM
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Fully agree with you Steve. I've been told that 10 Megapixels are enough for a DSLR camera, so i really can't see what are doing 12 megapixels on a tiny and low quality sensor of mobile phone. 12 mp are too much even for a compact camera.

  #11  
Old 04-09-2009, 09:57 AM
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Agreed. Great, that's established then. 5MP is enough. You just need a decent lens, firmware, and what else would be useful? Oh yes, a non LED flash, because as we all know, but some (particularly those who've spent money) are unwilling to admit, Xenon is the ONLY way to take decent low light shots ESPECIALLY when the subject and/or camera aren't rock steady, which is most of the time.

I really hope Nokia get around to making such a device one day, it would be really good.

D'oh! OH. THEY HAVE. it's called the N82!

The N82. All I or most cameraphone users will ever need.

  #12  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:04 AM
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megapixels

If with the added megapixels the same sensitivity for light per pixel is kept. Added megapixels can be used for digital zooming. preventing the need for heavy and expensive lenscomponents. keep your mobile phone light and cheap. Keeping Steve's remark about 3 Megapixels is sufficient. Properly done digital zoom with8/12 Megapixels seems an excellent alternative for optical zoom in the case of mobile phones. The current implementation of digital zoom in the newer Nokias as demonstrated in this post.

Nokia Creative/James Burland.

  #13  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:52 AM
splus splus is offline
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I have to say that I prefer more megapixels, but REAL megapixels, not some marketing trick where a 12MP photo is of same sharpness as a 5MP photo.
The thing is that I often need detail in pictures, and IF the 12MP photo has more detail than 5MP photo I would choose it any time.

If someone doesn't need many megapixels then it is very easy to set the 12MP camera to take 3MP photos, I don't see a problem in that...

What would make me extremely happy (this goes for both phone and digital cameras) is if they would improve overall and especially low light quality of photos. I would much rather buy a 5MP camera that takes perfect photos than a 50MP camera that takes fuzzy photos...

  #14  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:55 AM
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There is a point that is usually missed when manufacturers are playing the numbers game. The sensors are all the same size, yet one packs on more elements than another.

A printed image (or even a stored jpg image) doesn't store the raw detail, i.e. a colour variation per pixel. It is actually the result of masses of digital signal processing and it is the DSP combined with the quality of the raw sensor output that is critical.

When the elements on the sensor are smaller and more densely packed, they have a physical effect on each other that results in them inducing electronic noise in each other.

Consequently, there needs to be more DSP noice eliminating processes applied during the image processign within the camera, resulting in degradation of the actual image detail (because the algorithm has to make a decision about whether it is dealing with genuine picture detail or noise).

As less densely packed sensors (lower megapixel) naturally have less of this cross-element noise, they often produce better quality and more faithful images which can be magnified to larger images and prints than higher MP sensors before the image detail degrades too much.

IF you need more detail, more pixels can help but you need a larger sensor to get the best out of them. With current low cost technology (CMOS and CCD) there is an optimum megapixel count per sensor area. Pushing higher reduces image quality.

  #15  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:56 AM
Reda EK Reda EK is offline
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correction

Sorry James, I think you are mistaken.
if you are zooming, you are maintaining the same resolution and if you are digitally zooming at 12mpx you are losing quality. What you probably meant is that you can crop the image at max resolution and you can zoom at lower resolutions but then it's not an 12mpx camera anymore

Besides, I really doubt you can have a decent sensor at that mpx count and in such a small form...
 

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