All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

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Old 02-12-2009, 11:17 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
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Nokia's masterplan for 2010

At its annual Capital Markets Day, Nokia has laid out its masterplan for 2010 and beyond. Extracts from the full press release are reproduced below, there are several nuggets of interest!

Read on in the full article.

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Old 02-12-2009, 11:48 AM
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malerocks malerocks is offline
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Nokia targets its mobile device volume market share to be flat in 2010, compared to 2009.

They dont seem to be thinking that they can gain market share now. I guess not letting it drop will be a equally big challenge, considering all the flak they have been taking lately.

Nokia targets to increase its mobile device value market share slightly in 2010, compared to 2009

What is device value market???

Re-engineer our Symbian user interface; deliver a major product milestone before mid-year 2010, and another major product milestone before the end of 2010

This I like. I hope they churn out something good... 2 flagships on the way

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Old 02-12-2009, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malerocks View Post
Re-engineer our Symbian user interface; deliver a major product milestone before mid-year 2010, and another major product milestone before the end of 2010

This I like. I hope they churn out something good... 2 flagships on the way
Most probably it means that the first Symbian UI change comes in the latter part of 2010, and the first actual device verly late 2010 or more likely early 2011 (big software projects and device launches tend to slip in Nokia). And the "end of 2010" milestone means devices in the latter half of 2011.

I suspect 2010 will be a fairly weak year for Nokia as far as good, innovative devices go (much like 2009, and even 2008 for the most part). Probably just underpowered, "refreshed" versions of this year's devices (shiny new covers, minor cosmetic fixes to sw, but otherwise same-old-same-old).

Let's just hope that the 2011 devices in the high-end will be competitive compared to the high-end devices other manufacturers also release in 2011. It'd be too bad if their 2011 devices are only competitive with what the competitors have now.

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Old 02-12-2009, 01:28 PM
snoFlake snoFlake is offline
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The Stock Market doesn't think much of it - and although in terms of long term strategy it's no better an indicator than anything else (and many analysts are positively worse) the Nokia share price chronic under-performance this year compared to Apple and the other manufacturers and the overall market has certainly been a forward indicator of the sales and profitability problems now being revealed; poor quality handsets, outdated and fractured software and services, low penetration in new smartphones (see recent AdMob data, the US is a disaster zone but the UK is even worse for them now).

I have some hopes (I'm a shareholder for chrissakes ) and I think they've realised what a hole they're potentially in but I'm yet to be convinced they realise how serious the two years of inactivity/touch screen complacency between 2007 and 2009 have been or know how to implement a market leading solution.The N97 is a worrying disaster no matter how they spin it, it's worrying they seem unable to admit it or rectify it and indeed how it got out the door and was trumpeted as an iPhone beater. There is a worrying disconnect with reality which is reminiscent of Sony Ericsson and look what a mess they're in and even more of IBM or Rank Xerox.

Now they've got to deliver a finished functioning top end product and junior spin offs into the mid and low tier sectors inside six months or they'll possibly never recover. Samsung are pounding them on cheap touchscreen sales- yeah Nokia's maybe smart but people in the lower-tier seem to prefer the simplicity and reliability of the Sammies and in the top tier they're getting killed by Apple (and we haven't even see that launch on Voda and through Tesco's in UK yet but look at the effect when it launched on Orange) and for business by RIM and there is a raft of Android devices either just launched or due for Q1 most on 2.0 and the probability it's going to be pushed down the price points.

There are a few bright spots, their music sales seem to be doing well in India and some other developing economies, the N900 although clearly a work in progress has bought them some time in the top-end after the N97 debacle or rather suspension of hostilities but they really need to drive it home and find it in them to create a decent Symbian flagship or series of mid tier compelling winners or they're rightly gonna get pounded. All this talk of end Q2 game changing device, who else brings out new handsets mid year?? After getting torched on N97 I can't believe that many will be early adopters of a new Nokia flagship rather than wait for a few months or get the new Apple which will work straight away (fool me once.......). I also have seen sketchy blueprints of new smaller iPhone floating around. I know Rafe thinks they can't do a mini at the hardware/price point, I'm not so sure at all. Suddenly get a small 200-250 iPhone unlocked ?

Last edited by snoFlake; 02-12-2009 at 02:03 PM.

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Old 02-12-2009, 07:27 PM
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[quote=snoFlake;449603]


Now they've got to deliver a finished functioning top end product and junior spin offs into the mid and low tier sectors inside six months or they'll possibly never recover. Samsung are pounding them on cheap touchscreen sales- yeah Nokia's maybe smart but people in the lower-tier seem to prefer the simplicity and reliability of the Sammies QUOTE]

I've been trying to replace my Nokia 5800 (I've had it 10 months and would like a change) and I've looked hard at Samsungs. They don't come anywhere near the 5800, they are nowhere near as simple, as full featured or as useful. Having scanned the forums, they are pretty poor at reliability too. They have some eye candy stuff, but no way could I replace a 5800 with one.

Their cameras are shyte, their battery life is poor. No iPlayer downloads, no decent Facebook app or general application availability. Also stupid software faults and no OTA backup. Maps, browser, rubbish email app and tedious setup for access points, I could go on. Currently there is nothing on the market to replace my 5800, and I've tried very hard.

A friend of mine today tried to play a music track on his iPhone before it had finished downloading. His music library is now unusable.

But it's only Nokias that have problems.

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Old 02-12-2009, 07:40 PM
kevwright kevwright is offline
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[quote=Unregistered;449664]
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoFlake View Post

A friend of mine today tried to play a music track on his iPhone before it had finished downloading. His music library is now unusable.

But it's only Nokias that have problems.
A quick hook up to iTunes and he should be sorted.

Kev

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Old 02-12-2009, 07:50 PM
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[quote=kevwright;449667]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post

A quick hook up to iTunes and he should be sorted.

Kev
Didn't work.

Needs ipodrip or something.

Shouldn't have happened, a proper sorted phone would never have had a problem so easy.

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Old 02-12-2009, 07:56 PM
kevwright kevwright is offline
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[quote=Unregistered;449670]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevwright View Post

Didn't work.

Needs ipodrip or something.

Shouldn't have happened, a proper sorted phone would never have had a problem so easy.
He he, well, he can get a one time re-download of all his iTunes stuff if he contacts them. But surely he has backups of his music somewhere?

Kev

  #9  
Old 02-12-2009, 02:10 PM
ajck ajck is offline
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@snoFlake:

I'm mildly amused by your typical blinkered shareholder pessimism ;-)

> The Stock Market doesn't think much of it
Yes, because the stock market is highly stable and full of people that know and understand the market sector well, and don't react to every little piece of nonsense coming out of 'analysts' mouths. Not.

> how serious the two years of inactivity/touch screen complacency between 2007 and 2009 have been or know how to implement a market leading solution.
Yes, because the 5800 as just one example was only one of or the most popular touch smartphones in the UK and elsewhere, has been one of Nokia's most successful devices anywhere, got rave reviews etc, and was the most popular music player of ANY sort in the UK.

> Samsung are pounding them on cheap touchscreen sales
And you're comparing smartphones with smartphones, right? Wrong. If you're going to make that comparison I can say something like Nokia are pounding Nokia on cheap mobile phone sales because their S40 line outsells their S60 line.

> and in the top tier they're getting killed by Apple
This is utter myth and rubbish, not borne out by facts. Nokia smartphones have 38.9% global market share (and as high as 80% in regions like Asia Pacific, the global total being dragged down by the US which is not that important a market). Apple have 17.3% global share. Apple achieved 6.7% growth in the last year, while Nokia achieved 6% growth on much larger sales. None of these figures mean Nokia are "getting killed by" Apple, or anywhere close. You'd do well not to believe any of the rubbish written by US technology blogs who can't see beyond the end of the iPhone in their hands.

> there is a raft of Android devices
You gotta laugh at this. Android only just showed up on the stats it's sales were so small, and now accounts for only 3.5% smartphone share. If Android ever gets well into the double digits in market share then it will be interesting, but honestly, at the moment it's trading solely on hype and most sales are in the US where they don't know any better.

> see recent AdMob data
No thanks. Admob data shows only what phone is accessing mobile internet sites displaying Admob ads. There is a significant disconnect between that and actual handset sales, especially as for multiple reasons (like iPhone owners having a data plan forced on them) iPhones, Android etc get more used for web access.

> who else brings out new handsets mid year??
Apple, usually, as just one example.

> After getting torched on N97
You're sure of that are you? I thought sales had been pretty good, and it was mainly a few ignorant bloggers bitching about it.

> or get the new Apple which will work straight away
Don't get me started on the numerous considerable drawbacks of iPhones vs Nokia smartphones. Cost being the immediate one that kills potential iPhone market share.

> I also have seen sketchy blueprints of new smaller iPhone floating around
Well, I've seen actual photographs of Elvis living in a bus on the moon, on the cover of the Sunday Sport, which seems a tad more reliable evidence to me.

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Old 02-12-2009, 03:06 PM
shiv179 shiv179 is offline
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Thumbs up Great news, but I want 3D Acceleration again!!!

Great news indeed!! Very interesting times ahead!!
But I want 3D Acceleration again!!!
I want POWER again.
Only then will I ever look at another Nokia

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Old 02-12-2009, 03:21 PM
clonmult clonmult is offline
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Its nice to see some direction coming from Nokia - possibly too late though? They need to get these products out asap, but preferably not with the bugs that generally plague S60 handsets.

They also need to stop releasing mildly differing variants on devices as well - how many N series variants do they really need to release? The Mini shows that they got it wrong with the N97, but having both on the market just feeds the potential confusion.

They really only need a few form factors - candy bar, slider, touch screen and touch screen with physical keyboard.

Currently they have :
N97, N97 Mini, 6760 (fugly)
Slide : N96, N86, N85, 6710, 6210
Touch only : 5800, 5530, X6
Candybar : N79, 5730, 5630, 6720

Qwerty : E72, E71, E63
T9/qwerty : E75, E55, E52, E51
Slider : E66

So thats up to 5 phones occupying overlapping market segments. On each one they seem to start the firmware development from scatch and introduce a totally new series of bugs that didn't exist previously.

They DESPARATELY need to rationalise their product range, concentrate on quality of the software on the devices, test them thoroughly prior to release (which they haven't done on S60 for what, 3 or 4 years now?)

Hopefully with Symbian^3/4 being developed "outside" of Nokia, it should improve quality, but no doubt its going to be butchered for every phone that they bring to market.

I guess I've been a bit of a Nokia fanboi at times, but the shortcomings of their devices is getting way too painful to bear now. I get wound up by shortcomings in application testing, and Nokias apparent decision to beta test products by asking people to buy them is utterly inexcusable.

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Old 02-12-2009, 03:06 PM
kevwright kevwright is offline
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@ajck

>Yes, because the 5800 as just one example was only one of or the most popular >touch smartphones in the UK and elsewhere, has been one of Nokia's most >successful devices anywhere, got rave reviews etc, and was the most popular >music player of ANY sort in the UK.

As it ought to have been given the massive coverage it got/gets and the crazy cheap price of the thing. The Comes with Music clearly helped, but don't Nokia lose dosh on each and every one of those?

>And you're comparing smartphones with smartphones, right? Wrong. If you're >going to make that comparison I can say something like Nokia are pounding >Nokia on cheap mobile phone sales because their S40 line outsells their S60 line.

And of course when you get to talk about market share later against iPhone, you will conveniently ignore that a large part of Nokia's numbers are made up of crappy little low end or mid tier handsets that just HAPPEN to run S60, on 2" screens.

>This is utter myth and rubbish, not borne out by facts.

Ah, facts, they are great things :-)

>Nokia smartphones have 38.9% global market share (and as high as 80% in >egions like Asia Pacific, the global total being dragged down by the US which is not

Ah, there we are. How much of this % is for the low end crap?

I would love to see a comparison between high end Nokia stuff, N97 and Mini for example, vs 3GS.

Here is a fact, in my group of friends and people I see often, lets say 20 people, 2 years ago, 10 of these (like me) had a Nokia N95 or 95 8GB, a couple had the old iPhone, and the rest had old crappy phones like S40 etc.

Today, this same group of people, 12 of them now have iPhones, 4 of these are 3GS based on seeing mine, 3 of them still have their N95 8GBs, but will be replacing with iPhone soon. The thing you gotta remember is this, the people that 2 years ago had the N95s are getting iPhone, BUT so are the people that had the crappy S40s.

When did you last use an iPhone (3GS) for a week? And before you brand me a fanboi, I currently own an N97 mini, and have had 2 N97s recently.

>the moment it's trading solely on hype and most sales are in the US where they >don't know any better.

Android certainly is not "there" yet, but the increase in market share is stunning, and the support from Networks is strong.

Consider this, O2 in the UK for example offer the iPhone, the Android Samsung 7500, and the Palm Pre, but do they sell the N97 or N97 Mini? nope, and if you were Nokia, that really ought to worry you.

>No thanks. Admob data shows only what phone is accessing mobile internet sites >displaying Admob ads. There is a significant disconnect between that and actual >handset sales, especially as for multiple reasons (like iPhone owners having a data >plan forced on them) iPhones, Android etc get more used for web access.

Hrmm, I don't suppose it could be that accessing the web from iPhone and Android is about a million times nicer than an N97 could it? Look, I go online with my lovely new N97 mini, and about 20% of my screen is covered with a pop up I can not get rid of! If I need to access a quick web page I would think nothing of using the iPhone to do this, saves getting the Macbook fired up, but I would never bother if I only had the N97, it is not in the same league.

BTW, I am deeply sorry that I have to write this, as you will see if you have a look at my blog, I am really a Nokia fanboy, trying NOT to like the iPhone so much :-)

>Apple, usually, as just one example.

Yep, and people queue for bloody hours to buy one, daft buggers.

>You're sure of that are you? I thought sales had been pretty good, and it was >mainly a few ignorant bloggers bitching about it.

Oh, best not look at www.kevwright.com :-), at least I am not American.

>Don't get me started on the numerous considerable drawbacks of iPhones vs >Nokia smartphones. Cost being the immediate one that kills potential iPhone >market share.

Seriously though, have a go, stick to 3GS though. Cost? N97 unlocked 500 ish, Apple iPhone 32GB 540, that includes a year unlimited data and wi-fi that the Nokia does not, so surely about even?


>Well, I've seen actual photographs of Elvis living in a bus on the moon, on the >cover of the Sunday Sport, which seems a tad more reliable evidence to me.

You know, Elvis is alive, and he has a Nokia smartphone with a decent email client that is easy to setup out of the box, and when you read the email it does not look like something out of the 80's.

Kev

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Old 02-12-2009, 07:30 PM
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@ajck


As it ought to have been given the massive coverage it got/gets and the crazy cheap price of the thing. The Comes with Music clearly helped, but don't Nokia lose dosh on each and every one of those?
No they don't lose money. And the VAST majority of 5800s sold don't have Comes With Music bundled.

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Old 02-12-2009, 07:53 PM
kevwright kevwright is offline
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No they don't lose money. And the VAST majority of 5800s sold don't have Comes With Music bundled.
Do you mind say how you know they don't lose money please, as Nokia will not release this information as far as I know.

Also, not sure how many 5800 they have sold, but I have seen a press release saying they have sold 3 million ON CWM.

Kev

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Old 02-12-2009, 08:08 PM
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Do you mind say how you know they don't lose money please, as Nokia will not release this information as far as I know.

Also, not sure how many 5800 they have sold, but I have seen a press release saying they have sold 3 million ON CWM.

Kev
My insider knowledge covers only one network, but they are not loss leaders. The 5800 got CWM 5 months after coming to market.
 

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