Man! This wound me up!

[TANKERx]

Microsoft has said that people's familiarity with Windows will help make Windows the standard for wireless devices, as opposed to the 'non-standard' platform, Symbian. They argue that there is no standard at present (I suppose what they actually mean is that there's no current standard with a Microsoft licensing agreement tattooed onto it) and they're going to provide us with one (Oh, thanks be unto Bill for he hath saved us!!).

With Microsoft's only real backer in the smartphone arena, Samsung, already considering a shift in a direction that could be adequately described as 'away from Microsoft' (thus leaving Microsoft with second rate manufacturer Sendo), this is a laughable attempt to talk up a worn out technology.

The fact that the only similarity between the Microsoft Smartphone and Windows is the cartooney icons and irritating speech bubbles is not an issue, what should be of concern for future Microsoft smartphone users is that Microsoft is actually trying to cram a Windows interface into a screen no bigger than a Jubilee celebration stamp! What are they thinking!?

With the specs for the SonyEricsson P800 coming out to reveal a very juicy phone indeed, and the Nokia 7650 chomping at the bit to market, you gotta wonder what on earth Microsoft thinks is going to give it an advantage because the 'Microsoft' and 'Windows' associations are about as likely to attract victims (don't you mean customers or users? - Ed) as a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

[Dazler]

I found symbian OS as easy and friendly to use as any windows interface [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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Te creavit Dazler mirabilem, Te respexit ancillam humilem<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by Dazler on 2002-06-19 2107 ]</font>

[Moka]

Well, you know what Microsoft are like. They're superb spinners, and pretty amazing at stretching the truth. Anyone competing against Microsoft can't afford a single slip-up. Remember, MS thrashed Apple with Windows 3.11 and later Win95 (which was sold as a multi-tasking multimedia OS). Windows 95 was patently useless at handling multimedia and was possibly the most unstable OS ever sold. But MS still beat Apple. The moral of the story is NEVER underestimate Microsoft!

[Dazler]

Offcourse.
They can make it as unstable as they want. As long their is enough software available for the OS it wil know succes.
I'm running BEOS now, almost no software available (compare with windows), the same I had with linux and now with symbian.

You can't sell an OS to the big public without a load of software.

And better yet ... FREEWARE. Selling stupid games at 35$ won't help either.

Offcourse windows and windows software is expensive, but who buys it anyway? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] Only companies. The small users, the home users, the ones that are the majority of the people using the os, don't want to buy programs.

Offcourse the Symbian OS isn't build for such users. Because a normal person will never be able to buy such an expensive communicator.

Microsofts smartphone can get bigger then symbian.
If you can choose between crashing sometimes and having no apps to run or between crashing more but having tons of software.

That's why I like windows. If I want something, I've got it for free. I'm a student, I don't have money to pay for everything I want to use. The companies can pay for it.

How can symbian really get popular with the majority of people if they have to pay for a descent browser, pay for some descent entertainment .

Micrsoft ain't better then all the other OSs, they are not cheaper, their is just more free apps available.

I'm using BEOS at the moment, I have to pay for a opera browser and to have a flashplayer and even then there are no games availavle.

I don't think symbain will be able to really compete from the moment microsoft launches a working smartphone.
They have free included
All suporting browser
MSN messenger
mediaplayer

we need to buy opera, buy a not working msn, but a mediaplayer if we want to listen to mp3's

My beos pc boots in 12 sec's from power down to desktop. Sound excellent doesn't it?) It is, but that's about it [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] I can't even print without paying for it, and even then it doesn't really work.

If nokia/symbian wants to compete
More free programs
much better SDK's

but who am I ...

Like I said, the persons who are really able to afford things like the communicator are probally rich enough to buy the software 2.

Still software is microsofts power, and that ain't gonna change. Only thing to do is help support other OSs. I'll try to make some usefull things for the communicator myself. But that won't help much [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

If I can port my msn to the communicator I'll be a happy man. The rest is hopeless, symbian is for rich people.

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Te creavit Dazler mirabilem, Te respexit ancillam humilem<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by Dazler on 2002-06-19 2112 ]</font>

[TANKERx]

Interesting points, but you're suggesting that Symbian users are going to have to pay for a lot of things that are reported to be free. In fact, the only thing I miss from Symbian is a decent IM.

The Smartphones will come with integrated browser, messaging clients and media players. There'll be no need to pay of Opera since it has been licensed.

The P800 will come with its own media player that will play MP3, WAV and AU (among other formats) as well as a 16Mb external memory stick to compliment the internal 12Mb.

I'm not too sure what you're saying users of the new batch of smartphones are going to have to pay for. These smartphones will be targeted at consumers, unlike the 9200 series, and will have all the software to make them useable and enhance their multimedia experience.

Also, I think that we have an opportunity here in that Symbian has got a small head start in that it has names which people recognise. Nokia, Sony, Ericsson and Siemens. People already have phones by these companies and so it would make sense to them that if they are going to buy a new phone, an upgrade would mean staying with the same company.

As far as software goes, Microsoft is pushing the line that software for the PocketPC will be easily ported to the MS smartphone thus giving it a head start. If that is the case, why does it need a different SDK that only a select few have been able to get their hands on?

I've heard more software announcements for the 7650 than I have for the MS smartphone.

If you visit <!-- BBCode auto-link start -->www.pocketpcthoughts.com<!-- BBCode auto-link end -->, you'll see that Microsoft is playing on silly gimmicks that mean nothing. Microsoft is selling its platform on the idea that you can have a colour screen and ringtones that don't beep - something that many people have been enjoying for a long time. They think that nobody has even thought of putting a PIM into a phone and so, on their web site at <!-- BBCode auto-link start -->www.pocketpc.com<!-- BBCode auto-link end -->, push as new technologies that are not new. Even the T68 does everything that the MS smartphone pushes as the <B>Big New Thing</B> (of course, some may say that they are pushing thiese lines of marketing because they don't want to admit that MMS could catch on).

However, you're wise not to write off Microsoft. Only a fool would overtake Microsoft in anything and never look back to check what's going on. I'm sure Microsoft will catch up - but look at the PDA market, after years of PocketPC technology, Palm still has the lion's share.

[Moka]

I can see both sides of the coin here - Dazler is saying that people like free software (especially fun games to play), but, IMHO, I think both Nokia and SE are already working hard to get their new devices 'everything-you-need-factory-installed' as they can, as far as the software goes, and on getting developer support. Yes, IM is still missing, but I'd bet it's something which is being worked on pending 'arrangements'. I think IM will be big on smartphones.

I think, again IMHO, an important point here is that so far we've only seen the top end smartphones (which includes the 92**, and P800) - the crunch is going to come at the low end; simpler devices running Nokia S-40 type interface, or Nokia S-60 size screen. It's this market which Microsoft OS and Symbian OS will really battle for.

Microsoft is trying to make this a re-run of its sucesss with desktop PC's, and it will no doubt find ways to leverage its desktop domination into the sway, especially with Outlook synchronisation, and with corporate clients. BUT - I can see where TANKERx is coming from here too, because Microsoft's is full of rich talk, and unfortunately there will always be people who blindly believe it.

Can Microsoft make mobile phones generic items, where the hardware is rendered secondary to the main 'feature', the fact the device runs 'Microsoft' software? - Or are mobile phones simply too intimate and personal to fall into the same marketing scheme as beige-box PC's?

There is life beyond the OS - there's brand names, the openness, quality, and price of the services the device connects to...and that 'something else'. Microsoft has never had that special quality in anything it's done - but Nokia and Sony have it in their blood.

[Dazler]

It's rather hard to tell, what's to come, we're just at the beginning of a whole new trend of smartphones/pda's.

And indeed the head start of nokia/symbian did them well, like tanker said Opera is free and integrated in the next version [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] (9210i)

It doens't really mather if microsoft wins or symbian wins or whatever, it's more important that there's real competition between the OSs. This will automaticly result in better OSs and more benifits for the end users [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] And cheaper (hope) [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]))




[addsig]

[griessha]

Hello Guys,

You're all right - but what really does the job of selling technology and devices has been for a long while on the side of Microsoft, and it was colour, sound, the most powerful and advanced processors from WINTEL consortium bundled with software, that always comes with features no-one really needed.

It is always easier to sell gleaming displays rather than grey-on green ones;
But consider the truth

As an enduser I embraced with all my heart the longlife of the products from PSION, the ones that brought up Symbian OS.
You bought an organizer and it simply was more quality with more inbuilt power than comparable things.

Though you easily could rationalise the higher price for your device - with no service packs ever needed.
If Nokia and SE go in that direction and keep up an eye on upcoming new technology, M$ will never again be able to stop them.

But I'm not saying you is gonna win the game.

Ralf