All About Symbian - Nokia (S60) and Sony Ericsson (UIQ) smartphones unwrapped

Go Back   All About Symbian Forums > News and Comments > Symbian OS News

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

  #91  
Old 07-07-2010, 10:23 AM
snoFlake snoFlake is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 225
snoFlake is on a distinguished road
Good commentary on the original Nokia Conversations post from Unwired View, certainly encompasses a lot of what I feel about Anssi's original post and where Nokia is at. And very importantly is one of the first/best discussions I've seen about S^3 > S^4 transition and how Nokia should be bringing this into the open and how they should be addressing it. I thoroughly agree with the suggested path and think there should be a lot more open discussion on AAS about this thorny topic which is not going to lie down especially with so many having been burned by Nokia's last Symbian flagship, and is I feel being slightly swept under the carpet without realising that it is not a "non-issue" and could immensely damage S^3 releases.

http://www.unwiredview.com/2010/07/0...ons-and-hopes/

  #92  
Old 07-07-2010, 10:28 AM
Hih Hih is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 131
Hih is on a distinguished road
Smile

Hi Anssi and other fellas,

after using Nokia Symbian phones since 2002 (7650), I have finally ditched them. What a relief! No more Nokia or Symbian. I am pretty new person now.

Got Android phone instead. I am so happy!

  #93  
Old 07-07-2010, 04:59 PM
traecer traecer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10
traecer is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by manual_ View Post
N97 will haunt Nokia for a long time. They'll have to really do something outstanding to win back the enthusiasm for the brand.
I completely agree. Not only did Nokia chase away many of their hardcore power users with the N97, its failure still haunts the market. The other day I was looking for bargains on eBay, and came across some N97s..."nice screen, Zeiss camera, QWERTY slider, 32GB storage...this is the smartphone I want! People have made it work for them with the latest firmware," I told myself. But...inferior camera quality...inferior GPS...horribly slow E:, tiny free space on C: that still mysteriously disappears after a few days. Even a perusal of the websites of the faithful show that some people have hacked and hacked until they (at best) sort of made it work...but never without major compromises and never for more than a few days. This device is an albatross around Nokia's neck...they would probably be better off stopping production and pretending it never existed...

  #94  
Old 07-07-2010, 06:09 PM
morpheus2702's Avatar
morpheus2702 morpheus2702 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 171
morpheus2702 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoFlake View Post
I thoroughly agree with the suggested path and think there should be a lot more open discussion on AAS about this thorny topic which is not going to lie down especially with so many having been burned by Nokia's last Symbian flagship, and is I feel being slightly swept under the carpet without realising that it is not a "non-issue" and could immensely damage S^3 releases.
Absolutely agree.

I for one dont get how the closure of a couple of blogs and the garbled direction of the N-series has created such a tsunami of discussion, especially with the seemingly-promising N8 imminent. So why has open season been declared on Nokia now, moreso than at any other time?

Coming up to 100 posts on this topic and I'm aghast with the (lack of) coverage AAS has given over to this story, both the spark and the ensuing backlash. Pretty much as snoFlake said, there has been a cursory glance over but otherwise it's 'everything in the garden is rosy.'

Rafe, Steve, Ewan, David - guys come on, pull your fingers out and put those fingers on a keyboard! The most popular thread in months deserves more AAS Insight.

I would have though Driq's post about the IDC figures would have illicited a flurry of activity from Rafe and Steve alone?

http://www.electronista.com/articles....losing.share/

  #95  
Old 07-07-2010, 08:22 PM
froschy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by slitchfield View Post
Quote:
The N97, a supposed flagship device, was (and continues to be) an embarrassment.



Really? a) it's an old device now b) v22 firmware improves things markedly for users who are still hanging in there.
Yes! Even though one year is a long time in the tech industry the N97 still remains Nokia's "Flagship" (their words not mine) device as they continue to manufacture it and they have not released anything else that takes this mantle.

As for the v22 firmware, sure the N97 is better than it was with the release firmware (which was alpha state at best) but it's still flaky, very slow, requires very careful management of the c: drive, and can't really handle internet based widgets. Let's be honest here, this is not the device that Nokia marketed or hyped and is still not worth the premium price tag that they put on it.

Steve, I think this sort of attitude is why people accuse you of having a bias towards Nokia as to dismiss or forget the debacle of the N97 when commentating on this fightback or the N8 is at best naive and at worst completely irresponsible.
Ads

  #96  
Old 07-07-2010, 10:46 PM
manual_ manual_ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 35
manual_ is on a distinguished road
Of course fw updates improve things a bit at a time. But still the phone could merely be called "okayish" when it has a good day and you're using it carefully with limited CPU, RAM and C storage in mind ("normob" has no understanding for those and would simply say "phone is broken") and try not to multitask too much. And you should have a lot of patience, because doing a lot of things simultaneously and quickly is a no-no (multitasking on N97 mini is a nightmare). On a side note I've noticed that using bluetooth headset slows down my mini unbearably.
This is a characteristic of a flagship!? I hope Nokia will start to think less of the features list and more about real life use cases and will optimize hardware (Is 12mpix really necessary? Why not make low-light photography or overall photo taking speed/convenience a selling factor? Or cut the megapixels to 8 and allocate savings to UI/UX design and development team? ), software (make it snappy!), user experience and interface (consistency!) to make their devices accessible to many more than geeky tech enthusiasts. Why not make advanced features so straightforward, easy, fast and pleasant to use to have mass appeal? Why assume only geeks will use them? Look at Apple. Each time they implement a feature that was present long before they do it in such a way that user has no problem and wants to use it. It's just that they have the guts, vision and confidence Nokia is (strangely, considering its slipping but still dominant mobile market position) lacking.

People hang on to N97. Sure. But do they have enjoyable experience? I doubt they do. They're barely "hanging on".

You say N97 is old now? Then you should add that it was old at the launch day. And what's more it was ageing dramatically fast - iPhone it was supposed to compete with is doing significantly better even now.
I really hope I'm wrong but I'm afraid when N8 will be almost as old as N97 was when it's launched. After watching the videos so far it seems to me that it will be having a hard time winning over the "normobs" some people are making fun of and iPhone is having no problem appealing to. Simplifying Symbian a bit is not innovation. It's cutting costs at the expense of users (again). User centered approach is what Nokia seems to be lacking judging from the shape of the software/hardware they produce.

I really don't get that Unregistered users thing. If you hate them, make this forum accessible for registered users only. If you leave your doors open expect that someone you'd not really welcome might come in and make a mess)
If an unregistered is a troll simply ignore his/hers comment. If he/she has a point - react accordingly. Simple

Tech media are being overly melodramatic? In the light of current state of affairs (shrinking market share, Nokia share price going down) it's another sign of Nokia condition.

Last edited by manual_; 07-07-2010 at 10:51 PM.

  #97  
Old 07-07-2010, 11:53 PM
froschy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
@ manual - some really good points there, especially about user experience and mass market appeal. I think it's fair to say that in the wake of the N97 debacle the four key points of failure by Nokia were hardware, software and services, quality control and user experience. Has Nokia learned from this, I'm not sure and when it comes to the N8 (taking into account that it's nothing more than a pre-production model) against those points my feelings are as follows:

Hardware - Given that underpeccing the N97 killed any chance of it ever being a good device, I'm surprised that they didn't err on the side of caution and push the hardware specs even further.

Software & Services - These are still a work in progress but certainly plenty of potential.

Quality Control - On this one I really feel that Nokia learnt from the N97 debacle.

User Experience - From the demos it looks like the N8/Symbian^3 is an improvement but it is still a long way behind the competition.

I really hope that Anssi's fightback comments are more than just words and that Nokia does start producing innovative products again as I really believe that it's important to have competition.

  #98  
Old 08-07-2010, 06:33 AM
slitchfield slitchfield is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,002
slitchfield is on a distinguished road
No, by melodramatic, I was talking about the reaction to the blog closure, not to Nokia's stats or plans.

Some good points there all of you, we do read them all, honest!

Re: the unregistered thing, that's purely a Rafe thing, I'd ban unregistered posters in a heartbeat.

Re: coverage of the blog closure tsunami, it was a conscious decision to not cover something that wasn't really 'news' as such, however much the tech press have leapt upon it....
__________________
Steve Litchfield, Admin, AAS

  #99  
Old 08-07-2010, 08:55 AM
manual_ manual_ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 35
manual_ is on a distinguished road
From what I've read Mr Vanjoki is a colourful character:). I hope he will be determined, driven and his position will be strong enough to possibly force some difficult and unpopular decisions despite opposition. Both inside Nokia and geeks out there in the public. I hope he will not try to please everyone.

It should be clear now that making a device that has every checkbox on a feature list checked is no way to guarantee its success.

"Making product better often requires removing features". (You should read the source of this quote: http://www.marco.org/595644480)

And removing features would annoy many. So it is vital that Mr Vanjoki will be able to deal with that just the way (or better) Jobs did. Did lack of camera flash (any, not only xenon;d) multitasking or MMS stop iPhone from becoming a top seller and earning big cash? No. Tech enthusiasts considered iPhone to be seriously flawed because it was so underspecced. But it turns out Apple has a deep understanding for the market and, contrary to what many say, they adapt their products to please their target audience - not Steve Jobs.

And it surely doesn't mean listening to each end every opinion and reflecting those opinions in the product itself.
(Here's an interesting read on effects of being obedient to users: http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/12/dig...ons-on-things/)

I hope Mr Vanjoki knows what will make customers happy and will put his knowledge and vision in future Nokia devices (AND services).

  #100  
Old 08-07-2010, 09:38 AM
manual_ manual_ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 35
manual_ is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by froschy View Post
Hardware - Given that underpeccing the N97 killed any chance of it ever being a good device, I'm surprised that they didn't err on the side of caution and push the hardware specs even further.

Software & Services - These are still a work in progress but certainly plenty of potential.
I'm suprised by raw specs of N8 too! Unless optimizations in S^3 are really so significant that this hardware will be enough to run it smoothly. Videos seem to tell a different story though. While speed is an amazing improvement over S60v5 there are times when the device slows down for a moment. When I think of running widgets and apps in the background these specs could spell trouble...
This might be fastest Nokia device. But I wish Nokia would aspire to creating fastest device in the world, because that's where competition takes place.

There's an enormous amount of work to be done in Software & Services. Its a great thing Nokia has them and understands the need for providing them alongside their devices. But it's a mess. Betalabs is a great example. Teams working on apps seem to be completely separated from each other. This results in a lot of inconsistency. Those apps are different visually, not to mention UX. No consistency here. If these apps are really meant to be integrated into Nokia OS they need someone in charge with a broader look. Even icons have different visual style. Don't they have internal styleguide?
Look how much effort Apple puts into providing detailed guidelines for icons alone: http://developer.apple.com/mac/libra...XHIGIcons.html
"Ovi" icons are really good. They have unique style. Why not make the same person who made them responsible for achieving visual consistency in ALL apps Nokia develops?

  #101  
Old 01-08-2010, 12:26 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Great to see this piece by Vanjoki. I have no doubt that Nokia are on the rebound and will win at the high end, mid range, and low end. I think everyone should ignore the naysayers - whingers always shout the loudest. The loss of Symbian-Guru is pretty meaningless.

Thank God Nokia aren't going to use Android, that would have been an almighty mistake. It's nowhere near as mature or capable as Symbian and those asking for it (or jumping ship to it) are judging a book badly by it's cover and will regret their move.

Wait and see - all this talk about Nokia and Symbian being on the way out was the most utter piece of total rubbish, is a storm in a teacup, and shows the people who spout it to be ignorant in the extreme.

Nokia and Symbian will rule over the mobile market for a long time to come.
Thatīs the spirit! Bring in some more where that came from, itīs that kind of commitment and mentality that is needed in times like these. Itīs like you say, the naysayers and whingers are the first to change team, but what happens when the ship they changed to starts sinking...? Well itīs the same melody all over again. Whining whining whining.
I strongly believe that Nokia will rise again!

Peace out.
 

Bookmarks

Tags
anssi, fightback, nokia, starts, vanjoki

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Video: Anssi Vanjoki on the N97 and Symbian^3 Rafe Series 60 58 15-12-2010 03:10 PM
Video: Anssi Vanjoki on the future for Symbian and MeeGo Rafe Series 60 19 01-03-2010 09:39 AM
Video: Anssi Vanjoki on Symbian, MeeGo, N95 form factor Rafe Series 60 20 25-02-2010 09:26 AM
Exclusive: Nokia's Ovi Store starts to roll out re-downloads slitchfield Series 60 36 27-10-2009 12:26 AM
Presentation by Anssi Vanjoki Tatus Nokia 6600 and 6620 4 17-09-2003 09:21 AM



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:00 AM.


vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Notes || Contact Us || Privacy Policy