Topic Review (Newest First)
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| 03-04-2009 11:04 PM |
| Leonard |
Hey,Steve your article got a brief mention on the latest Engadget podcast.  Go check it out if you want.
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| 31-03-2009 11:01 PM |
| Mark A |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Can the editors please ignore this pedantic drivel.
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Especially as he's wrong. Gartner's figures show about 230 million sold in the last two years so it actually is a current figure.
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| 31-03-2009 09:06 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Steve Litchfield:
That's a cumulative number of Symbian smartphones shipped, not the number in use today. I have owned many Symbian smartphones, but only one of them is in use today.
Can the editors post a correction?
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Can the editors please ignore this pedantic drivel.
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| 31-03-2009 03:59 PM |
| Jose M. |
The real reason is ...
Come on Steve. Maybe you don't know Apple as well as some of us do, but here's a tip... Apple never does anything for the heck of it. Do you think the infrastructure to do notifications is cheap? All the hardware and carrier deals that need to be arranged for that "feature" cost a fortune.. The real reason Apple is not doing background processing as they already do on OS X for Macs is because <<drum roll please>> they're working on a new generation iPhone based on a CLOUD version of the iPhone OS. Take a look at the patents and put the dots together. It will all make sense in about a year!
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| 31-03-2009 12:25 PM |
| Jaggz |
Guys, you're not looking at this problem from Apple's frame of reference.
Apple have a chance to build a near perfect platform from the ground up. Mobile OSX could be - as long as Apple continue to show good judgement and restraint - *the* computing platform of the next decade.
Rest assured, Apple will 'fix' all these problems in due course, in the meantime they continue to innovate and refine the platform is ways that no other computing company can match.
Could Apple bring multi-tasking to the iPhone today? Of course, no question about it. Should they? I honestly don't know that answer to that one, but I do know that people all over the world have generally great things to say about iPhone, the App Store and OSX, so I'm inclined to think that the Apple's management team have a pretty good grasp on reality and half-decent business acumen... unlike some other companies that I shall not name here for fear of being pummelled.
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| 31-03-2009 09:59 AM |
| Unregistered |
Wrong number
Steve Litchfield:
Quote:
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found in over a quarter of a billion smartphones in use around the world today
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That's a cumulative number of Symbian smartphones shipped, not the number in use today. I have owned many Symbian smartphones, but only one of them is in use today.
Can the editors post a correction?
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| 30-03-2009 09:35 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Just to be clear on this point:
1) they did in fact rollback the push API, which was originally introduced last year and slated to be in version 2.1 of the iPhone OS, claiming that their servers couldn't handle the strain
2) they have absolute, dictatorial control on which 3rd party applications get released. If a 3rd party app misuses their APIs in any way, they can pull it out of the store without warning, assuming it makes it to the store in the first time
So the argument "they must think carefully about how to implement multitasking, because if they let out an API that can be misused/abused, they cannot take it back" is absolute nonsense. They can publish an API that has flaws, censor all apps that take advantage of that flaws, and ultimately fix those flaws in some subsequent release.
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Rubbish.
Yes it helps that they are dictatorial and have control of the supply chain, but they cannot ban applications on the ground that they are using an Apple API in the way it was meant to be used.
Even apple would see a retraction of such an API as am embarrassing last option.
My point about multitasking is that you need to think from the UI point of view how you deal with failure to obtain a resource. The existing solutions on all platforms are pretty awful.
Apple have to think how their own code deals with failure if a 3rd party app interferes with them - which makes the software more complex, the testing more labourious, delays shipping and causes problems with perception in quality.
Perhaps we should stop using the phrase multitasking to mean "concurrent applications", since support for multitasking is easy at the kernel level but concurrent applications on an open-to-3rd party system requires a lot of design and engineering to pull off robustly.
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| 30-03-2009 09:03 PM |
| Unregistered |
Quote:
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If multitasking was in release 1, they couldn't rollback the solution if it turned out to be unstable or the support costs for 3rd party development were huge.
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Just to be clear on this point:
1) they did in fact rollback the push API, which was originally introduced last year and slated to be in version 2.1 of the iPhone OS, claiming that their servers couldn't handle the strain
2) they have absolute, dictatorial control on which 3rd party applications get released. If a 3rd party app misuses their APIs in any way, they can pull it out of the store without warning, assuming it makes it to the store in the first time
So the argument "they must think carefully about how to implement multitasking, because if they let out an API that can be misused/abused, they cannot take it back" is absolute nonsense. They can publish an API that has flaws, censor all apps that take advantage of that flaws, and ultimately fix those flaws in some subsequent release.
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| 30-03-2009 05:54 PM |
| Serious 60 |
re : Tzer2
>> If that's genuinely Apple's attitude, then perhaps people should be comparing the iPhone to Nokia's Series 40 devices instead of S60?
In some ways absolutely. Apple are a product company who I think accidentally got into 3rd party development. I think they always intended to have commercial companies be able to deploy applications through their private developer programmes, but it was a last minute decision to allow bedroom programmers access.
Apple clearly didn't need multitasking to make the iPhone a success and as someone has pointed out - when they do release it, it will be wowed by fanbois.
Apple got a phone to market in a very short time of decent quality by concentrating on the product and limiting the scope. If multitasking was in release 1, they couldn't rollback the solution if it turned out to be unstable or the support costs for 3rd party development were huge.
By listening to demand they, can add new features and make them appear as "gifts".
Look at how nokia integrate a new feature - slap another app on the menu bar and tick a box - it's not product design.
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| 30-03-2009 05:41 PM |
| Unregistered |
"One last thing, this is now 30th March 2009, the last time I re-booted my laptop was October 2008, try doing that on a MS based laptop!"
OSX has had at least 2 security updates that required rebotting during the past few months, plus the there was the really big 10.5.6 update in december.
You should really reboot as soon as possible.
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| 30-03-2009 04:32 PM |
| Unregistered |
OS X Multi-tasking & Stability
I agree with almost all your comments Steve re the iPhone and multi-tasking but I do have to make a comment about your statement that OSX can't multi-task as well as XP/Windows.
We are a company which writes software for industrial control systems and this entire area is dominated by tools which have to run under a MicroSoft OS. I started to use an iMac at home a couple of years ago as I wanted to try something different, I loved it, and when it came to buying my last Laptop for using at work I broke the mould and bought a Macbook Pro.
Now to my real point...
On this machine (with 4GB Ram) I regularly run (concurrently) 2 different XP Virtual Machines, Entourage, Excel, Word, Firefox (with about 10 tabs open), Skype, Terminal and various 'Finder' windows, not to mention various Expose widgets etc. Not only does the whole thing multi-task beautifully, but I can run different apps in different desktop 'Spaces' and jump between these at will.
If I'm leaving the office, I suspend the VM's and shut the lid, go to a site, open the lid and start working again almost immediately.
One last thing, this is now 30th March 2009, the last time I re-booted my laptop was October 2008, try doing that on a MS based laptop!
Love the site, keep up the great work.
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| 30-03-2009 03:59 PM |
| irfanil |
Excellent Article
Great Article... I wish this article can also be posted to other forums/blogs where people are arguing for iPhones.
Apple is just good at creating 'hype'. Even the features announced in OS 3.0 are in S60. I still wonder why Apple calls it the most advanced mobile os, where as they are still developing the basic smart phone features.
@Jhoravi: Yes, people don't use S60 OS properly but it doesn't mean that mobile os shouldn't have the features. There's a large number of people that only buys S60 for feature rich smart phone. It'll take Apple a decade to create an entry level smart phone.
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| 30-03-2009 03:07 PM |
| Tzer2 |
Whatever you think of multitasking, I really wouldn't want to see a repeat of what some extreme Apple fans do which is to condemn some concept until Apple do it, then say it's wonderful.
Before I go any further, I should say the vast majority of Apple fans are perfectly sensible level-headed folk, most of whom are happy to use other manufacturers' devices too. But there's a hardcore, as there is in all fan bases, which seems to try and be 100% Apple 100% of the time, changing its opinions to support whatever Apple is currently doing.
A few years ago there were many forum and blog posts on various sites where the *concept* of a music phone was shot down by hardcore iPod fans, as if no phone could ever compete with dedicated music players. But when Apple announced it was making a music phone, this was suddenly a really good idea among hardcore fans, even though no one had even seen it yet. The same thing happened with 3G, user-installed applications, and practically anything else where Apple followed in other companies' footsteps: shoot down whatever Apple isn't doing, but as soon as Apple plans to do it then praise it to high heaven and perhaps claim Apple invented it.
As I've said in previous threads, this selective reading of history goes right back to the 1980s. The now-familiar much-imitated GUI on Macintosh was heavily based on Xerox's GUI work at PARC, which Apple will freely admit, yet the Xerox part of GUI history is frequently airbrushed out by hardcore fans. To give a more recent example, the ITunes software was originally a third party application which was bought, repackaged and then heavily marketed by Apple, yet how many people realise this? Even the iPod was apparently brought to Apple by an engineer from Psion, rather than originated within the company.
Apple's success is largely in taking existing products and making them easier to sell to consumers, in making them attractive and hyped enough that some people will be willing to pay very high prices. High prices restrict market share, but they also mean even relatively low sales can generate good profits. By and large Apple are more marketers than engineers: they don't invent stuff or do stuff first, they take existing stuff and make it more sexy so that they can demand a higher price for it. And Nokia are more engineers than marketers: they invent stuff but largely rely on third parties to do interesting things with it.
In some ways the dream team might be a combination of Nokia's hardware prowess and Apple's marketing nouse, but I doubt we'll ever see that happen as their methods of operating are so different.
Nokia possibly formed the Nseries brand in order to imitate Apple's strategy, to put slicker packaging and interface features on existing S60 technology for use in expensive higher end models with an exclusive reputation. Numbered S60 devices frequently have similar tech specs to Nseries devices, yet their Nseries equivalents sell for much higher prices simply because they have more glamorous casings and easier-to-use media applications.
None of this is a criticism of Apple, it's just an observation that a small percentage of extreme Apple fans are overlooking the essence of what makes their favourite company successful.
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| 30-03-2009 02:58 PM |
| Unregistered |
The problem with apple fanboys is that every shortcoming will be praised as a "feature". For example, I've seen a lot of cases of people praising the iphone's "camera slowness" saying that they couldn't get such a "nice" blur effect with photoshop if they wanted to. Rubbish.
Ok, the iphone does have its positive points, but no multitasking is one of the worst flaws. Samsung's most modern dumbphones now have multitasking. Sony Ericsson dumbphones have had multitasking for ages. Moto had some limited multitasking on dumbphones. LG is starting to implement it too. I remember reading that even s40 is gonna get it in the future.
Also, every smartphone OS (except Palm OS, but that's an old dog, and upto version 4 it DID support it, and Iphone OS) has multitasking.
No excuses for this, apple. If normal people can multitask on a desktop, they can multitask on a phone as well.
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| 30-03-2009 02:41 PM |
| bbj |
Multi-tasking provides better UI experiance!!
Bottom line - most consumers dont know/care about it BUT it can make a massive difference to both developers, application functionality and device usage.
Just a couple of small examples: Push email. Effectively banned on iFart unless you happen to be running the email app. For no sensible reason at all.
How about alarms in say Calendar type apps. Users dont care about whether Muttly will be tasking (or where Dick has got to) however they get (well I get) really p***d off when alarms dont go off because the OS happens to have exited an app containing the alarm - simply because they wanted to say make a phone call.
Without multi-tasking both of the above need some hacks or special OS services. With it all the hacks go away.
All that happens when such a idiotic decision is taken is developers create hacks to get around the system limitations. This started back in DOS days - ala magic background TSR (terminate and stay resident) apps and continues today - with jailbroken iPhones.
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