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16-07-2007 02:47 PM

tawalker

I'm coming in rather late on this thread (well, very late, as I've only just found it), but I couldn't resist chipping in...

I have owned both a Psion Series 3c and 5mx, although I forget exactly when I bought them - I definitely had my 3c by the late spring of 1998 when I visited the US, and I think I had 'upgraded' to the 5mx by the summer of 2000.

The 3c had its benefits (and sometimes I wish I'd kept it), but I do think the 5mx was overall the more useful machine of the two. Quite aside from the third-party apps one could load onto the 5mx, I still believe Psion Word for that machine wipes the floor with any wordprocessor available for S60. (If anyone knows a WP which will run on the N95, and which supports document styles - paras, headings, etc. - please let me know.)

As for the Internet functionality: for a time around 2000-2002, I managed to link up my 5mx over infrared to my mobile phone of that time (IIRC, it was a Nokia 6210i - on Orange UK, silvery in colour and had GPRS), and with this setup I could do e-mail, FTP and simple Web browsing from almost anywhere. It came in handy for Christmas 2001, when my family and I stayed in a holiday cottage in rural Dorset, on the fringes of network coverage. From there (with a few retries on most occasions due to the phone's network connection dropping), I was able to exchange e-mails via the 5mx with my fiancee in South Korea, whom I would marry just over two months later

But anyway. Since my 5mx finally stopped responding to repair attempts around 2003, it is only in the last month or so (since I upgraded to a Nokia N95) that I finally have the makings of a mobile communications setup which matches (and in this case, surpasses) what I had with the 5mx/phone combo back in 2000-2. That's not to say that no such solutions have been on the market - just that I haven't owned any of them, and also to point out that the 5mx was potentially (and in my case, actually) a pretty good machine for mobile comms, certainly for the time. It also made a very useful mobile phone companion - any other Psion alumni out there remember PhoneMan Pro?

All that's missing for me is a decent keyboard (ah, the refrain of the old 5mx fan

), and that seems easily rectified with something like a Stowaway Bluetooth unit. It seems somehow fitting that the Nokia N95 is running a descendant of the OS in the Psion 5mx, although there's no shortage here of people suggesting that not all the progress has been forward...

I'm not blindly nostalgic over the 5mx - it suited me at the time, but the hardware finally gave out on me, and my N95 does almost everything the 5mx could, and a great deal more (though I wish the former had the battery life of the latter!).

On the other hand, for its faults, the 5mx was a great little computer, and I can only guess at what might have been, had Psion stayed in the consumer market some years longer. A Series 5mx descendant with colour screen, WiFi, Bluetooth, 3G, camera, etc., and a decent keyboard?

Probably would've had N95 battery life, too...

22-03-2007 03:08 PM

pgamble

apologies for my completely inarticulate response :-)

Clearly I meant that ' it finally got to the point when the balance of positives and negatives on the 5mx were outweighed by the balance of positives and negatives on Windows Mobile.

If anyone has good recommendations for the following types of app, please let me know :

Multi category notes
PIM s/w - Calendar, Tasks, Contacts
Mail client (really not sure how functional the Nokia standard one is)
Web browser - I like to be able to select text and save images
Calculator - with unit conversion etc

and most importantly a fully functional finance app with qif import, graphing, reporting .... a long time ago I had a freeware app called ABP Finance by Malcolm Bryant which seemed much more complete than anything I can see for S60 today .... again with the clamshell form factor, I'm sure Finance should become a key area for the E90.

Also ... games ... the proper version of Mahjong rather than the tile matching version, good gfx adventures, bejewelled, bubbleshooter, snooker etc would be good.

And finally ... are their any good incremental and image based backup utilities ?

Cheers

Paul.

22-03-2007 02:41 PM

pgamble

This is funny

I struggle to know if people are all being serious here.

I had the Psion 5 and 5mx (I still have the latter but haven't used it for 7 or so years).

I stuck with the 5mx for the first few iterations of PocketPC because if with the limited memory and CPU it was far more functional and 'performant'. Interestingly I never had a problem with the keyboard ribbon - although a hair line crack developed on the top right corner.

I have fond memories.

I had a scanned in picture of my first child on it ...
I used TomTom City Maps and Routeplanner (before they were TomTom) with my Magellan 315GPS to navigate me around - worked very well.

The reason for my eventual jump to Windows Mobile was because in the iPAQ3970 it finally got the point where the positives on the 5mx were eventually out weighed by the negatives of Windows Mobile. The performance, colour non reflective screen and diversity of genuinely useful apps on Windows Mobile eventually became more important than the awesome keyboard.

Standard apps on Windows Mobile were and still are rubbish.

If you spend a load .. which I did, you have far better apps - even than the Psion.

I have :

Softmaker Office - a Word and Excel compatible replacement that genuinely covers all the desktop Microsoft products capabilities inc macros, charts, embedding etc.

Pocket Informant - Much more functional that Outlook
FlexMail - Almost as functional as Outlook
PIEplus - full tab browser with more options that Internet Explorer 7
CashOrganiser - more functional than MS Money or Quicken
40iPlay - technically better music playback than any ipod
CoPilot 6
PhatNotes - Incredible functional notes management
1-Calc - a far more sophisiticated calculator than anything else I've seen
Resco Explorer - far more power than Windows Explorer

the list goes on.

The tide is changing again. I went from a 3970 to a 4700 (VGA) to a 2750 (really fast and huge amounts of memory - now upgraded to WM5 and running all my s/w) and finally to the first TyTN in the UK - a Vodafone VPA Compact III / v1605.

The latter was a great device ... but following major QA issues - 7 replacements, Vodafone finally agreed to offer the exchange for something else.

The initial decision was to go for the N95 (I didn't know about the E90 at the time). I'd use that for push mail, phone and reference ... and use the 2750 for the heavy apps (BT HSDPA via the N95).

They have now agreed that because the TyTN had the keyboard, they will exchange it for the E90 on the 1st of May .... and I'm very happy.

The negatives for me ....

Symbian doesn't have (from what I can see) software currently available that is as sophisticated as the best Windows Mobile s/w :

I can find no full Finance package, no really feature rich calculator, no customisable today screen (active standby) capability, no Avantgo client, no good third party GPS s/w that uses the internal GPS (I understand that for some reason CPL is flaky on S60. Quick Office is currently close to Softmaker.

But most things get 80% of the way to what I need.

The positives ...

I've always had a love hate relationship with touch screens and stylus. As long as the E90 has a good navigable interface I'll be happy.
The keyboard must be better than the TyTN - which was actually very good. If I need better in rare situations, I've got my Stowaway BT keyboard and mouse.

The ability to use the external 'personality' for most of the day to day events / calls etc with a proper phone keyboard.

The internal clamshell 'personality' for significant data entry and web browsing will be great.

I'm excited :-)

Yes ... it's ok to remember the good aspects of the Psion - in it's day and for a long while after (at least 3 years in to Windows Mobile) it was untouchable ... and there are still things about it that designers could learn from.

In other respects ... things have moved on ... in some areas Windows Mobile is clearly ahead - perhaps because the bulk of Symbian devices didn't have the hardware or power user interest until recently and apps were developed for it. In other areas .... many other areas, it looks like the N95 and E90 are ahead of Windows Mobile .... there's not much in it ... and frankly it comes down to the individuals needs at the time ... but what is clear is that Windows Mobile has driven the N95 and E90 to the great heights they've reached in this generation of Symbian devices. The i-mate Ultimate 7150 and Toshiba G900 are very close ... but for me this time I want the external phone layout of the E90 ... as regards the N95 ... until HTC bring out a 5mp autofocus version of the Trinity ... it's the leader of the pack ... unless you need the more advanced WM software or keyboard.

For me ... it's back to Symbian for the first time in 8 years ... although I'll keep the 2750 until the Symbian S60 software library improves.

It's an exciting time ... let's enjoy it.

Paul.

23-02-2007 06:01 PM

Arthur

Psion's place is in the museum

Can we stop talking about the damn Psion ???? Psion's place is now in the museum... and it's not coming back people !

Enough with the Psion. Who cares ????

23-02-2007 01:20 PM

nickhealey

That's Big Companies for you

Quote:

Originally Posted by turl

The point of the article you reference is that sometimes technology can go backwards.

Some tech does go backwards, and it's fairly standard Big Company Stuff, ISTM -- barring exceptional organisation, big companies either aren't able to design good stuff, or can't make their development deliver the design. (Or, in so many cases, don't even *need* to deliver really good stuff in order to continue making vast profits.)

(A great deal of "big company madness" went on when Symbian was formed.)

However, IMHO if you took 30 or 40 competent people out of Nokia, and gave them a couple of years, a budget and autonomy, they could happily design and build a truly awesome Series5-replacement (online or otherwise) that would do many of the wonderful things mentioned in this thread. (Last time I checked there were something like 1500 people on the Series60 team. When you think of what 40 or so such teams could do...)

(ISTM)
Nick

20-02-2007 09:51 PM

CyberFred

Ewan mentioned "Psion ain't selling. Period. I've tried. Any more on that story is for my autobiography." and Andrew Orlowski said that "Even though Psion doesn't use the IP in its products any more, it won't license the patents, we're told, so no company can recreate the Psion experience. "

Recently posltd tried to start selling re-badged versions of the 5mx, calling it the psiX pda. I called them, interested in placing an order last year, and they responded that they were having trouble raising the investment to get manufacture going. This contradicts the idea that Psion is somehow holding onto the IP for the 5mx. Can anyone expand further on this?

17-02-2007 10:48 AM

martinharnevie

As far as I'm concerned, lots of this thread is about something entirely irrelevant. The focus is Psion vs something else; the 5mx vs 9500, the 5mx vs E90, the 5mx vs. W950 etc.

Obviously the little edge that a 5mx still has can be easily listed. But it's all besides the point.

Most of the Psion users I know of think in terms of:

5mx AND P990
5mx AND W950
5mx AND N93

and even though it sounds a bit illogical to me

5mx AND E90/9500.

Does using a 5mx along with the latest Symbian v9.3 phone mean that you have not moved forward? That you're still stuck in the past? Hardly.

The reason I keep on using the 5mx has nothing to do with emotions. Maybe a little to do with familarity, but not emotions. It's purely and entirely pragmatism. There are some features, yes very few but still important things, where the 5mx still reign supreme. And along with a P990 or N93 I get the best of both worlds.

And to round it all off, I still have not found a way of talking in the 9500/E90/9210/9300 and typing at the same time. Conference mode is not an option as others might overhear or it's impossible due to background noise. BT headset, sure, but is it ready when you receive that urgent overseas call? A "typing machine" like the 5mx is always there, ready to be used.

17-02-2007 10:32 AM

Unregistered

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertrat

.... one-shot alarm ... Take the alarm function, even my antiquated windup clock can do daily repeated alarms! WTF were they smoking when they decided it would be good exercise for you to set the alarm each time you wanted to use it? And which idiot decided that 1 alarm is good enough? I have digital watches going back 20 years which have more than 1 alarm and even calculators have more than 1 alarm.
....

All that ranting and ... there actually is multiple alarms in E90 (and other FP1 phones :-).

17-02-2007 08:59 AM

desertrat

"I'll live with the built-in software, or buy something better, just like I do with my PC."

You cannot compare a device like a phone/pda to a PC. With a PC I can upgrade any component that is underperforming. You simply cannot do that with a phone (the only "upgrade" you can perform is buy a bigger storage card, and if you're lucky maybe a firmware upgrade or two). So any sub-standard software such as the one-shot alarm, and the less than adequate calendar that are included in the system which necessitates replacement software means that the included sub-standard software is wasting space on the phone - space that is precious on a limited device such as a phone/pda.

If the E90 really does come with the standard s60v3 pim suite then I for one will not buy it. Is it really that hard for Nokia to use the Psion's calendar/time/alarm apps as a baseline? Take the alarm function, even my antiquated windup clock can do daily repeated alarms! WTF were they smoking when they decided it would be good exercise for you to set the alarm each time you wanted to use it? And which idiot decided that 1 alarm is good enough? I have digital watches going back 20 years which have more than 1 alarm and even calculators have more than 1 alarm.

The reason why people pine for the good old days of the Psion PDA is that the builtin software really are first-class. People expect that software as well as hardware get better over time and hence ex-Psion users are disappointed when they see Nokia's offerings. If I bought a TV today and it didn't have a remote control, or OSD, or even PIP I would be sorely p*ssed to put it mildly. And in any case, the things that they like about the Psion are mostly objective.

Someone mentioned that Nokia sells more phones in a few months than Psion had sold PDAs in the space of 10 years. Well what does Nokia do with the profit from selling those phones? Is it too much to ask that they spend a little bit of it on improving the software?

17-02-2007 08:51 AM

desertrat

16-02-2007 12:06 PM

akboom

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceX4Psion

What I missed in all the comments is performance!
Did anyone of AAS (Steve, Ewan, Krisee) ever try to compare an Psion 5x or revo with a Nokia E61 by for example searching for a contact? I'm quit sure they did ;-) and I also know it's not "fair" because Psions didn't use their cpu for managing phonecalls only had grey-scale-screens, etc. However, I think we all got used to the fact that new devices have a lot of nice add-ons (camera, mp3, etc.) for the price of "slugish" performance.

(3xrevo, 1x5mx, 1xnetBook and a lot of Nokias ;-))

The phonecall/network part of the device runs on a different dedicated chip, not on the application processor. SOS 9 has now made it possible to have a single chip architecture but I don't think any manufacturers have got a single chip SOS device in production. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Having never used a Psion I don't want to make a comparison; but I eagerly await the E90. Yes I will miss the rock solid stability, the menus, the 4 CBAs, etc. but I'd like to have a camera, a fast processor, a decent web browser; and most importantly a fully functioning front cover environment.

From Nokia's POV; they can develop a new S80 version 3 of some sort but how many of these new devices will they sell; is it worth spending all that money without returns? I don't know if that is a wrong or right POV.

AMK

15-02-2007 06:35 PM

mr.orlowski

Andrew here. It's really hard to figure out who said with the way the comments are formatted, so apologies if I misattribute quotes. Pace Ewan:

-- Why are people upset?
The first comparison to Psion was made, amongst others, by Steve, who implied the E90 was a worthy successor. Repeated yesterday: "I've a feeling that the new E90 is the one device that the remaining ex-Psion users looking for a 1 for 1 replacement will flock to." After I demurred at El Reg, Ewan chipped in with a comment designed to close down further discussion: can we all just move on and stop making Psion comparisons, please? In other words, AAS writers are permitted to make *favourable* comparisons between the E90 and Psion, but no one else is permitted to make *unfavourable* comparisons. This is a bit Stalinist, to put it mildly.

(There's also the strange sight of someone who tried so hard to revive the 5MX behind the scenes, now telling us it was rubbish all along!)

-- S60: Years of neglect
We've all been guilty, me included, of looking the other way as Nokia rolled out version after version of S60 with same sub-standard PDA applications. The forums are full of users pleading for notes sync, or to-do items with categories (doh!) stretching back years. The S60 Human Interface hasn't been touched in four years, apart from elastoplast additions like the Multimedia button.

S80 and Hildon had such features, and Nokia broke a promise to roll the functionality back into S60. So now it's no longer possible to ignore the years of neglect, confusion and bad management. The E90 isn't a worthy successor to the Psion, in my opinion, and it's arguable whether it's even a worthy successor to the 9300.

-- Surely S60 can't be so bad? It's a Communicator, dammit!
Yes, but it's still a step backwards from the 9300. Here's an example that's apparent to anyone who uses the E90 coming off the S80. S60 is a one-handed interface with two softkeys, but one is always dedicated to the back/cancel/no button. So all the menu options hang off one menu. For example, the Contacts application, in default view, has 19 menu options: Open, Call ... , PTT Options ... , Create message, New contact, Edit, Delete, Duplicate, Add to Group, Belongs to Groups, Mark/Unmark..., Copy... , SIM contacts, Send, Sync settings, Help and Exit. On my E70, you can see only six of these menu options at any one time.

Now roll the words "Psion", "Worthy" and "Successor" around your tongue!

-- Sovind
"... These are the bare minimum in my view to qualify for Enterprise. If it can't do it, it is an overpriced toy..." That's the best post I've ever read on a phone forum, thank you - it should be mandatory reading at Nokia. It's actually worse than you think, because like all organizations who've lost their way, Nokia is prone to marketing fads. And the current fad is "buzz marketing". It's pro-actively going after gadget heads and hot-rodders, and ignoring the SMEs and Asian market you describe. If you meet one of these Nokia marketers, they'll probably tell you fax is "now a web surrvice", or some such specious bullshit. This is how great companies fail.

-- It's the best we're going to get, so shut up everybody
Ewan: "we should ...realise that perhaps the idea of a small clamshell pocket computer never reached the mainstream, and never will."

It's incorrect to draw the inference that all everyone here wants the 5MX or Revo back, with or without added telephony. I can only speak for myself though, and I wouldn't want an 5MX-sized slab as a phone. We'd like to be given the choice, though, and that's not something Nokia has ever offered, or ever will. Nokia's ownership of S80 and market dominance means no one is likely to try, either.

15-02-2007 03:22 PM

buster

One thing that people seem to miss is the fact that Psion no longer produces consumer handhelds for one reason, and one reason only; they couldn't sell enough of them. At the end of the day, Nokia (or whoever else) have absolutely zero interest in producing a Psion replacement, because the market just isn't there. If it was, Psion would still be selling Psions...

The Nokia communicator range is essentially a brilliant piece of engineering (this from a P910 user), which does most things pretty well and does have a keyboard (albeit not up to the high standards of the Psion 5 series). What it does not set out to be is a Psion replacement.

Don't get me wrong, I have owned several (6 to be exact) Psions, and I've enjoyed using every one of them. I still use my netbook every day. However, anyone who expects Nokia to somehow produce a communicator-sized device (or smaller) with all of the features of a Psion 5 series is living in cloud-cuckoo land...

I must admit to being somewhat amused by the vitriol poured on poor-old Ewan (though I guess he must have half expected that!).

15-02-2007 11:36 AM

AceX4Psion

It's all about performance

15-02-2007 11:14 AM

Bassey

Ewam wrote;

> Comment: One thing that the commetns her show is that people are looking
> for a Psion 5mx replacememnt, a soprt of do it all device for the 21st
> century, and who can blame that group of people. It's my belief now that
> the phone format is not going to deliver. Personally the 5mx never quite did
> it for me, I was lucky enough to get an early netBoko and consider that the > best Psion managed. And it does have a natural successor in my life.
>
> The Tablet PC.

Actually, and don't shoot me, it's just an opinion, but I think the closest to a 5mx replacement now is either;

The HTC Athena

Or this imate Ultimate device.

Not a big fan of either, but them seem more like connected 5mx's than anything else I've seen.

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