View Full Version : Feedback from news post comment thread


lark
15-06-2009, 07:12 PM
I guess this is a sign of the times when AAS starts to lose its professionalism and become a Nokia fan site. I am not saying its not a 'critical' fan site but it has lost the objectivity that made it a valuable source of information.

This is not to say that I agree with the rather pathetic criticism of the N97 based on its processor and lack of graphic accelerator; this is just typical geek mono-vision (similar to the criticism the original iphone received - the fact was no one cared that the iphone was crippled functionally because it was fun to use).

Yesterday I played with a N97 in a Nokia shop in the Abu Dhabi mall. I had intended to replace my E90 with the N97 but the price (3050 AED), keyboard, lack of BB functionality and the flex in the resistive screen put me off. Maybe once it drops in price to 2500 AED I might pick it up (or the E72).

I am sure it will sell very well because A) it is a Nokia and B) a few of widgets are actually very useful to certain demographics. And one thing I can definitely saý; the N97 is quite fast. It feels quicker than the current iPhone in most operations although at the same time it is a bit jarring and not as smooth.

However the point is that this AAS article is a fluffy opinion piece based on 10 minutes with the phone. What about the Omnia HD? Right now this arguably the flagship Symbian device. And quite frankly I am sure another "guest writer"/unemployed banker could write a similar love-in on the Omnia HD (actually have both opinions on the post may have made the article a little more balanced).

I think this would be acceptable if this article was a once off but over the past 12 months AAA has shifted to playing rah-rah cheerleader for whatever Nokia initiative is launched (often in beta) rather than demanding production quality software on fantastic hardware - which by the way was the formula that lead to Nokia current market domination. It would be refreshing to hear AAS say this phone/service is crap... rather than another Ewan/Steve apologist statement of "well I am sure that once all of the kinks are ironed out it will be great." Sorry guys, the statistical evidence is that it won't be great, it will be middling at best and most likely never evolve beyond crap because Nokia will abandon it in 2 months to focus on the next "best" thing.

I have not seen a company throw away a market like this since Apple...

Rafe
15-06-2009, 07:30 PM
I guess this is a sign of the times when AAS starts to lose its professionalism and become a Nokia fan site. I am not saying its not a 'critical' fan site but it has lost the objectivity that made it a valuable source of information.

However the point is that this AAS article is a fluffy opinion piece based on 10 minutes with the phone. What about the Omnia HD? Right now this arguably the flagship Symbian device. And quite frankly I am sure another "guest writer"/unemployed banker could write a similar love-in on the Omnia HD (actually have both opinions on the post may have made the article a little more balanced).

OK thanks for the feedback. Bear in mind this is an editorial / thoughts piece which do tend to be more subjective. We also like to experiment with different voices / content ideas (producing unique content each and every day is not always as easy as it sounds). I'd also ask you not to judge on one or even several bits of content.

With regards to the Omnia HD - I would say it is the best piece of Symbian hardware on specs alone (and that's what some people want), but it is less of a complete package.

I think this would be acceptable if this article was a once off but over the past 12 months AAA has shifted to playing rah-rah cheerleader for whatever Nokia initiative is launched (often in beta) rather than demanding production quality software on fantastic hardware - which by the way was the formula that lead to Nokia current market domination. It would be refreshing to hear AAS say this phone/service is crap... rather than another Ewan/Steve apologist statement of "well I am sure that once all of the kinks are ironed out it will be great."

Sorry you feel that way. We do try and avoid simple cheer leading and offer our opinion, but its entirely possible we're too forgiving sometimes. There's always a balance in these things of course - while half the job is just to let people know about these things, the other half is to offer an opinion of whether it is any good or not. I would point out (examples from the last month) that we were quite critical of the Ovi Store launch and you'll see a piece tomorrow from Ewan on the 5800 Comes with Music that makes a number of criticisms of the CwM service.

I also think that its important to realise the world has changed - great hardware is not enough (as I alluded with the Omnia HD above). That's why we talk more about software than we did five years ago... and software is a different beast.. it evolves over time. e.g. this weeks Ovi Maps beta - now much better than the first 2 betas.

I also think we've seen a general rise in beta type stuff in technology in general. Perhaps this is partly a result of increased complexity?

Arthur
15-06-2009, 07:30 PM
I used to love AAS and it pains me to say it but it has now become an advertisment platform for Nokia. Thank God this isn't just me saying it, but as evidenced above, many others also.

This article is just the final nail in the coffin. I am almost convinced AAS did this farce on purpose to stir up controversy. I don't see any other reasons for such rubbish reporting. All objectivity has been lost.

Yes, the N97 is praised in blogosphere in some circles. But by whom? By people who like to call themselves "bloggers" who get their trial devices from Nokia. In their technolust they become fanboys and what we get is advertisments for Nokia.

And speaking of cheerleading... just visit conversations.nokia.com, it will make you sick to your stomach. But then again it's a Nokia owned site they have all the right to create a false aura of greatness about their products. I'm just hoping that people can see through the c**p. And I'm saddened that AAS has jumped on the bandwagon.

Rafe
15-06-2009, 07:41 PM
I used to love AAS and it pains me to say it but it has now become an advertisment platform for Nokia. Thank God this isn't just me saying it, but as evidenced above, many others also.

This article is just the final nail in the coffin. I am almost convinced AAS did this farce on purpose to stir up controversy. I don't see any other reasons for such rubbish reporting. All objectivity has been lost.

See the comments I made above. Though I will add that we didn't do it to stir controversy (though I did think it would cause debate). This is a guest writer offering an opinion. Do you think we should drop this type of content altogether (or maybe you see this as a general problem on AAS) or perhaps label things more clearly.

And speaking of cheerleading... just visit conversations.nokia.com, it will make you sick to your stomach. But then again it's a Nokia owned site they have all the right to create a false aura of greatness about their products. I'm just hoping that people can see through the c**p. And I'm saddened that AAS has jumped on the bandwagon.

I think with any source of information you have to measure it against your own opinion and experience with the content source. When I read a newspaper I will recall that it may hold a certain viewpoint (i.e. papers being identified as right or left leaning). I think you can even carry this down to individual writers.

Clearly Nokia Conversations is going to have a certain voice as a Nokia source (although I think its very good to see Nokia doing something more informal than press releases that engages with community). You just have to remember that when reading it.

All information is useful, but you have to understand it in context. And of course some information is more useful than others.

smellati
15-06-2009, 08:02 PM
You people make me sick. Why is it so wrong to like a phone.

You want AAS to admit that the n97 is crap? Why? Because you cant afford it? Because you want to feel better about whatever phone you currently own?

I've never met such cowardly behavior around a new gadget. No, its not perfect, but its not crap and its probably better than whatever phone you own.

It's like this with any forum dedicated to a certain product. People will shoot it down cause they cant have one or shoot others down cause they dont wont to feel bad about their own purchase.

AAS is doing a great job and reviewing the unit more accurately than any other site if you ask me.

You want to talk about being forgiving? You better take a second look at the iphone. I've owned the 3g for 6 months and simply couldnt stand it anymore and got rid of it. even my cousin whos a 15 year old girl who is not a gadget freak, got rid of her iphone 3g in 3 weeks!

I'm so sick of people thinking the iphone is the best and everyone else are simply trying to "kill" the iphone. You want an iphone killer? Look at any free phone offered by att. The iphone has a great UI, but that doesnt forgive all of its flaws. I would rather have a itouch. I have bigger standards for my phone.

Damon Simons
15-06-2009, 08:14 PM
I found this commentary really helpful and didn't take it as a review! people stop being so insane - this is clearly not a 'review' but more a comment piece. Anyway whoever was going on about the boygenius review it has gotten so many insane comments about what a crap review it was and how biased it was. At least here is someone passionate about the phone and look how popular the Nokia Express music 5800 is!?

morpheus2702
15-06-2009, 08:19 PM
Rafe, thanks for your response on this. As you know, I've been pretty vocal in my opinions for over a year now and you've taken a lot of what's been said on board, but let's look at AAS and what it's become in my own opinion:

Rafe - you are the professional apologist for the site. Yes, you may have been critical when the Ovi store was launched, but from what has appeared on the site in due course, that criticism has withered to a mild whimper. Acceptable if Ovi Store had come on leaps and bounds, but it hasn't, end of. The world may have changed and the focus maybe more software centric but it is still devices that are the focus of a phone fan.

Steve - Psion, Xenon flashes and Psions. On and on, repeated ad naseum. And posting totally biased, subjective 'articles' opinion pieces that are rarely responded to (Rafe normally steps into the breach) and an inability to accept when the world is turning the other way (remember that 'resistive screens have their place' article)?

Ewan - the Devil's Advocate whose humour just passes straight over the heads of Rafe and Steve. Knows a lot about NGage/Ovi Gaming but honestly, who is actively fascinated by that car crash? Oh, will join Steve in a circle jerk when Psion is mentioned.

So what do we have? A mix of personalities and knowledge to call Nokia to book when they have it wrong and shout out 'BUY THIS' when they have it right? Nope - 'I agree, I agree and I agree' with all the teeth of a meeting of parish vicars!

When are we going to see...?

a) No one giving a flying f*** that Nokia is releasing more handsets for the emerging markets and getting down to the real business of reviewing and testing the sexy, high-spec and latest releases in the Symbian world. If Symbian is dumbing down, say it loud, say it proud and maybe think about 'All About N Series' for us not into the latest Nokia 53xx device?

b) Pointing the finger and say 'you are talking out your a***' when Nokia or one of the team comes up with something so obviously clutching at straws or waxing lyrical about technology from 1993, instead of 'I agree with you' then departing off on a tangent in the direction of Jupiter?

c) An end to the endless reptiton of recent months - witness N82, Xenon flashes, 5800 hero worship, evangelical hope in the N97/Ovi as the second coming, non-acknowledgement of the iPhone as a game changer and even Android? I'll buy you a buzzer to hit everytime one of the aforementioned words is mentioned!

d) An end to the Nokia-centric view of the world? Just look at the past week - the iPhone 3GS, the Palm Pre and the N97 launched. Unless your browser only circumnavigates Symbian related websites, it must have dawned on you that the iPhone 3GS and the Pre have generated far more column inches than the Nokia N97 could ever hope to muster. Sure, the Apple Acolytes have their numbers, but the Pre... Surely this must spark of a question, a suspision, a nagging doubt that Nokia is not the pre-eminent force it was at the cutting edge? And if Nokia isn't at the cutting edge any more with it's focus on mid-range S60 devices, then collectively admit it (refer to a) above).

e) Get some new blood on board to stir things up who doesn't buy into the current AAS status quo.

I'm done, 'nuff said!

Arthur
15-06-2009, 08:26 PM
You people make me sick. Why is it so wrong to like a phone.

You want AAS to admit that the n97 is crap? Why? Because you cant afford it? Because you want to feel better about whatever phone you currently own?

Thank you for your informative post. I can easily afford the N97 - don't worry about that. But I won't buy it. And no, I am not an Apple fanboy, I don't own any Apple products.

Not everyone who thinks the N97 is an inferior product is an Apple fanboy. Get it?

What me and others would love from this site is objective reporting. Not advertisments for Nokia. That's all.

Unregistered
15-06-2009, 08:42 PM
Morpheus, read your post again and then find a dictionary (Nokia phones have them) and look up the word 'hypocrite'.

You are speaking for yourself and a few others, but you have gone as far overboard in one direction as you say AAS has in another.

It's not like these guys are Nokia exclusive. Check out www.allaboutiphone.net/

Unregistered
15-06-2009, 08:58 PM
Who really cares! Stop all your bitching and go read another column somewhere else on the net if you don't like what you read here. I'm sure the AAS guys don't need your posts which are boardering on being flames for the time they invest in this site! So go on get on your bike and don't come back!

davecozens
15-06-2009, 09:02 PM
Well I like the site, like the content, like the editorial and happen to think the chaps are doing a great job. Everybody needs to chill the heck out!

No clue about whether to buy an N97 though. I keep yo-yoing between phones like some kind of crazy person. But I do seem to keep leaning N97-wards...

smellati
15-06-2009, 09:22 PM
morpheus although I dont agree with everything you say, your discription on rafe, ewan and steve are spot on!...lol.

I agree that we all need to relax though.

I personally cant wait for my n97!!!

phonophiliac
15-06-2009, 09:24 PM
What is with all of the comments over the past few days? I can't tell if it's some smear campaign from one of Nokia's competitors, or if people are really that pissed at AAS and the content they choose to publish.

Editorials in the paper or online tend to cause debate, but everything being said of late is so over the top, so vitriolic, that I can't believe it to be anything other than a smear campaign.

Who the hell cares so much about the N97 or Pre or Iphone or whatever? If you don't like the content, don't read it; and if you don't like the phone, don't buy it.

To come to a site that is as established as AAS, with editors as respected throughout the industry as those on AAS, and lambaste all of them with personal attacks, throwing around phrases like "circle jerk", is embarrassing. Seriously, the people throwing around personal attacks should be embarrassed.

Get a grip. Step away from the keyboard. Go for a walk. Relax. You’re embarrassing yourself on the internet, and that’s saying something.

Rock on Rafe (you’re more patient than I’d ever be), Steve and Ewan.

-Phono

Csc
15-06-2009, 09:34 PM
I think I need to go back to College Humor and watch the Internet Forum Commenter Business Meeting one again. If you haven't, you should.

TheTruth
15-06-2009, 09:36 PM
You just need to count how many articles are about the N97 recently. Compare this to say the Omnia HD...

Sadly this is the case with many tech sites. If there is not much praise for a particular manufacturer or product they soon will lose support with no free prototype samples, free invites to venues, sponsorship etc.

Just look at My-symbian for example who is very objective but don't get much support from the manufacturers.

Sad reality but many sites are biased.

Best thing to do is to take most articles with a pinch of salt. At the very least read from many different sites WM, Symbian, Apple etc. You'll get a more balanced view...

morpheus2702
15-06-2009, 09:38 PM
Morpheus, read your post again and then find a dictionary (Nokia phones have them) and look up the word 'hypocrite'.

You are speaking for yourself and a few others, but you have gone as far overboard in one direction as you say AAS has in another.

It's not like these guys are Nokia exclusive. Check out www.allaboutiphone.net/

Ok brave words for an anonymous post. Google 'keyboard brave'.
And yes, I am speaking for myself and you can interpret my posts as incendary but that's what I think it takes to kick AAS out of the 'softly softly don't rock the boat' state I think it is in. I visit AAS and if AAS represented The Symbian world in relation (and acknowledged) the wider developments in the mobile industry that'd be something.

Who really cares! Stop all your bitching and go read another column somewhere else on the net if you don't like what you read here. I'm sure the AAS guys don't need your posts which are boardering on being flames for the time they invest in this site! So go on get on your bike and don't come back!

More strong words for another anonymous post. The fact that I do give a damn about this site and it's direction and the impetus for me to post. Don't agree with me - fine.

The pair of you - at least stand up and be counted.

smellati
15-06-2009, 09:39 PM
Thank you for your informative post. I can easily afford the N97 - don't worry about that. But I won't buy it. And no, I am not an Apple fanboy, I don't own any Apple products.

Not everyone who thinks the N97 is an inferior product is an Apple fanboy. Get it?

What me and others would love from this site is objective reporting. Not advertisments for Nokia. That's all.

I understand where you're coming from arthur. After re-reading my first post, I realized that I may have came off a little too aggressive.

My point is, maybe it isnt so black and white. The n97 has its short comings but I wouldnt nearly go as far as to completely dismiss it. I hope nokia embraces the n97's form factor for future models as I think its where the biggest selling point lies. The active homescreen may not be ground breaking, but I can already see myself using it.

morpheus2702
15-06-2009, 09:46 PM
... To come to a site that is as established as AAS, with editors as respected throughout the industry as those on AAS, and lambaste all of them with personal attacks, throwing around phrases like "circle jerk", is embarrassing. Seriously, the people throwing around personal attacks should be embarrassed.

Get a grip. Step away from the keyboard. Go for a walk. Relax. You’re embarrassing yourself on the internet, and that’s saying something.

Rock on Rafe (you’re more patient than I’d ever be), Steve and Ewan.

-Phono

Phono, I apologise if you confuse 'circle jerk' as a term of amusement rather than it's literal sense. I sincerely meant the former and have never suggested a Psion, as multi-facted a device as it is, has a place to thicken or engorge.

However I do feel no sense of embarassment whatsoever and infact, excitement at playing a part it what has become a stimulating debate.:)

architengi
15-06-2009, 09:49 PM
About the lies and the one-sied view of BoyGeniusReport, read these thread and read the comments of the users about the BGR review:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29564

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/06/12/nokia-n97-review/comment-page-3/#comments


* alvin Said:
* Boy Genius you call this dribble a review? Nothing but biasness and hate in this review.
</
* I have never read a more incomplete , hateful and dishonest review such as the one on this phone.

Andrew Said:
* BGR have seriously undermined their credibility with this sketchy, flippant, frat boyish “review”. The author was so blatantly predisposed to trashing the device

Hundresds of comments on BGR site say that BGR review is hateful.

Hassan
15-06-2009, 10:28 PM
Rafe, thanks for your response on this. As you know, I've been pretty vocal in my opinions for over a year now and you've taken a lot of what's been said on board, but let's look at AAS and what it's become in my own opinion:

Rafe - you are the professional apologist for the site. Yes, you may have been critical when the Ovi store was launched, but from what has appeared on the site in due course, that criticism has withered to a mild whimper. Acceptable if Ovi Store had come on leaps and bounds, but it hasn't, end of. The world may have changed and the focus maybe more software centric but it is still devices that are the focus of a phone fan.

Steve - Psion, Xenon flashes and Psions. On and on, repeated ad naseum. And posting totally biased, subjective 'articles' opinion pieces that are rarely responded to (Rafe normally steps into the breach) and an inability to accept when the world is turning the other way (remember that 'resistive screens have their place' article)?

Ewan - the Devil's Advocate whose humour just passes straight over the heads of Rafe and Steve. Knows a lot about NGage/Ovi Gaming but honestly, who is actively fascinated by that car crash? Oh, will join Steve in a circle jerk when Psion is mentioned.

So what do we have? A mix of personalities and knowledge to call Nokia to book when they have it wrong and shout out 'BUY THIS' when they have it right? Nope - 'I agree, I agree and I agree' with all the teeth of a meeting of parish vicars!

When are we going to see...?

a) No one giving a flying f*** that Nokia is releasing more handsets for the emerging markets and getting down to the real business of reviewing and testing the sexy, high-spec and latest releases in the Symbian world. If Symbian is dumbing down, say it loud, say it proud and maybe think about 'All About N Series' for us not into the latest Nokia 53xx device?

b) Pointing the finger and say 'you are talking out your a***' when Nokia or one of the team comes up with something so obviously clutching at straws or waxing lyrical about technology from 1993, instead of 'I agree with you' then departing off on a tangent in the direction of Jupiter?

c) An end to the endless reptiton of recent months - witness N82, Xenon flashes, 5800 hero worship, evangelical hope in the N97/Ovi as the second coming, non-acknowledgement of the iPhone as a game changer and even Android? I'll buy you a buzzer to hit everytime one of the aforementioned words is mentioned!

d) An end to the Nokia-centric view of the world? Just look at the past week - the iPhone 3GS, the Palm Pre and the N97 launched. Unless your browser only circumnavigates Symbian related websites, it must have dawned on you that the iPhone 3GS and the Pre have generated far more column inches than the Nokia N97 could ever hope to muster. Sure, the Apple Acolytes have their numbers, but the Pre... Surely this must spark of a question, a suspision, a nagging doubt that Nokia is not the pre-eminent force it was at the cutting edge? And if Nokia isn't at the cutting edge any more with it's focus on mid-range S60 devices, then collectively admit it (refer to a) above).

e) Get some new blood on board to stir things up who doesn't buy into the current AAS status quo.

I'm done, 'nuff said!

Well said mate, i was going to add few words too but after reading your post i've change my mind, 'nuff said! :tongue:

Rafe
15-06-2009, 10:38 PM
Thread for further discussion / feedback on AAS editorial stance ct.

Rauha
15-06-2009, 10:44 PM
a) No one giving a flying f*** that Nokia is releasing more handsets for the emerging markets and getting down to the real business of reviewing and testing the sexy, high-spec and latest releases in the Symbian world. If Symbian is dumbing down, say it loud, say it proud and maybe think about 'All About N Series' for us not into the latest Nokia 53xx device?
The site is called Allaboutsymbian, not AllaboutStuffThatmorpheus2702ISInterestedAbout. What's so wrong about writing about cheaper models anyway? Your attitude is disgustingly elitist. Plenty of people in both 1st and 3rd world can't afford highend models or aren't even interested to spend that much money on on their phones. The web is full of uber-geek sites for pixelcounters and hertzlovers. I like the fact that AAS really is allaboutsymbian.





b) Pointing the finger and say 'you are talking out your a***' when Nokia or one of the team comes up with something so obviously clutching at straws or waxing lyrical about technology from 1993, instead of 'I agree with you' then departing off on a tangent in the direction of Jupiter?
Textbook example of keyboard angst. You are clearly very angry and spew lot of bile. Hard to parse what you are trying to say here.





c) non-acknowledgement of the iPhone as a game changer and even Android? I'll buy you a buzzer to hit everytime one of the aforementioned words is mentioned!
iPhone is contantly mentioned and discussed on AAS.

Even the article that got you so riled up mentions iPhone 25 times. There's gotta be lot of buzzing going around your flat tonight!

Apple’s industry shocking iPhone

I think the iPhone is pretty much the reigning king – in use it appears light years ahead of anything else, at least in terms of the user interface.


All from the article. Yeah, no mention of iPhone as game chager.



d) An end to the Nokia-centric view of the world?
How could site called Allaboutsymbian not have Nokia-centric view? AAS is not general techsite. Nokia is monumental to Symbian world, and any site concentrating on Symbian is by default bound to be Nokia centric.


More strong words for another anonymous post.

Did your parents really name you morpheus 2702? Pretty much everyone is anonymous on the web. As if posting angry rant with Avatar name is somekind of show of character.

Chill out, and spen less time on-line if it gets you this angry.

Rafe
15-06-2009, 11:05 PM
Note: I moved the comments / feedback on AAS direction and editorial to a separate thread to try and clear things up (and keep things on topic-ish).

To address a few points that have been raised:

Omnia HD coverage - we publish a detailed preview in three parts - start here - http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/Samsung_Omnia_HD_Review_I8910.php. We're still waiting on a review unit, until that time there's a limit to what we can do. By contrast we do have an N97 review unit (as of last week) so....

Ovi Store - a case of giving it time surely. This won't just get fixed in a few weeks. We have continued to comment (e.g. disappearing content items story). A lot of the stability issues have gone now though - store performance is much improved. And that's a big thing. The actual purchase and download works well (silent install in the background for most items), though of course re-downloads is another issue... Yes more content is needed, but that's a wider issue of Symbian development (signing, QA, tools, visibility) as much as it is an Ovi Store specific issue.

morpheus2702:

Thanks for taking the time to write some detailed feedback. I do listen to all feedback, but hopefully people understand that does mean I will act on all of it. Feedback tends to be contradictory (some want more of this, others less etc.) I have to balance that out and make decisions accordingly.

In editorial direction there's a balancing act and its never going to be possibly to keep everyone happy. Other factors that go into this are commercial realities (what's popular - review of high end devices get the most traffic) and, to an extent, what the various writers want to write about (and areas of expertise).

We try and cover everything Symbian - hence the coverage of mid tier devices. Incidentally you'll probably see more of this going forward, partly because there are more devices, and partly because I feel its an important area to cover (and one that gets little attention elsewhere).

Prior to June there has been some repetition (and we do try and avoid it), but its also partly about device release cycles. There just hasn't been very much in the first 6 months of 2009. 5800 was a notable exception (and E75) both of these have been producing the most popular content on the site in the last few months. The second half is going to be busier in device terms I think. That I think AAS does a good job producing unique content compared to other sites in comparable mobile niches.

Given the sites name we do focus on Symbian, but you'll also see comparisons with other devices. This is an area where we could improve, but there's also a time / resource issue. One of the areas where we try and do more of this is the Podcast. I'd be interested in comments on the best way to do this.

So yes I'll take this on board, but balance it against other feedback we get.

And yes we all have our own foibles. It's really our own personalities and characters coming across. I really am trying to fence site less (and be less of an apologist), but I tend to think things through on both sides, comment a bit on both and hope other people find it useful in their own thinking. The analysis itself, pointing why something is the way it is, is often more valuable that the end opinion.

I can't speak for the other writers, but I will defend them. They do a fantastic job creating content day after day (not as easy as you might imagine). I don't agree with them all the time [QVGA screens and camera flashes are recent examples] (there's a lot of back channel chat), but I do believe the many voices model works best.

CSC - yes I rather enjoyed that video when I first saw it.

I would ask people to be as civil as possible (whether giving feedback or replying to others feedback). Everyone is entitled to their own view, but so is everyone else! Courtesy and patience cost nothing.

Williamoni
15-06-2009, 11:14 PM
Harsh, guys, and mostly very unfair.

In my opinion the mainstays of AAS all do an excellent job. Rafe specialises in market analysis, Steve specialises in multimedia, Ewan does his video blogging and gaming etc and throws in a bit of comedy.

If a new Nokia device doesn't cut the mustard I reckon you can rely on the guys to say so.

What you get from them is measured, sensible comment.

So what if Steve likes xenon flashes, so what if he still loves his Psions? That's up to him. Give the guys a break for goodness sake.

I agree that Nokia need to up their game. I'm not particularly excited by the N97, the N96 also wasn't much to write home about, arguably only the 5800 has been a success in the last eighteen months or so. Perhaps this has contributed to some frustration with some of us.

morpheus2702
15-06-2009, 11:29 PM
The site is called Allaboutsymbian, not AllaboutStuffThatmorpheus2702ISInterestedAbout. What's so wrong about writing about cheaper models anyway? Your attitude is disgustingly elitist. Plenty of people in both 1st and 3rd world can't afford highend models or aren't even interested to spend that much money on on their phones. The web is full of uber-geek sites for pixelcounters and hertzlovers. I like the fact that AAS really is allaboutsymbian.

All About Symbian? Really? How much coverage on the Omnia HD compared to the N97 or 5800? In the same way I buy a car magazine to read about the latest and greatest, an article of changing an oil filter on a 1982 Ford Escort doesn't thrill me. If that makes me disgusting elitist, so be it.

Textbook example of keyboard angst. You are clearly very angry and spew lot of bile. Hard to parse what you are trying to say here.
And you describe me as elitist, spouting cliched pop psychology straight from a coffee-table book? One man's bile is another man's opinion, so sorry for offending your delicate sensibilities.

iPhone is contantly mentioned and discussed on AAS. Even the article that got you so riled up mentions iPhone 25 times. There's gotta be lot of buzzing going around your flat tonight! Apple’s industry shocking iPhone I think the iPhone is pretty much the reigning king – in use it appears light years ahead of anything else, at least in terms of the user interface.

All from the article. Yeah, no mention of iPhone as game chager.
But it didn't affect the end conclusion of the article, did it, just as I guessed at in my very first post on my thread? Fill a paragraph with superlatives on the iPhone yet strangely (or not) the Nokia device magically is the one you should choose...


How could site called Allaboutsymbian not have Nokia-centric view? AAS is not general techsite. Nokia is monumental to Symbian world, and any site concentrating on Symbian is by default bound to be Nokia centric.
OK does Nokia-biased work better for you?

Did your parents really name you morpheus 2702? Pretty much everyone is anonymous on the web. As if posting angry rant with Avatar name is somekind of show of character.
Frankly, yes. It shows that rather than taking pop shots bathed in the blanket on anonimity I'll stand by what I post, right or wrong.

Chill out, and spen less time on-line if it gets you this angry.
Thanks for the advice, I'll take it under advisement. What makes you think I'm angry? I'm as relaxed as a sloth on morphine. Don't confuse anger with an opinion strongly expressed.

rvirga
16-06-2009, 01:00 AM
Before this article, I had never heard of Justin Berkovi. From the link at the bottom of the page, I gather he is the (founding? only?) member of a marketing-for-hire company. Call me cynical, but a marketing-for-hire guy writing an opinion piece proclaiming the N97 the perfect phone sounds like Nokia astroturf to me.
Why was this article published? What are the AAS policies for external contributions? If I wrote and submitted an article describing my personal search for the perfect phone (spoiler alert: it's not the N97, not by a long shot), would Rafe publish it on this site?

PaulyLaw
16-06-2009, 08:12 AM
As you know, I've been pretty vocal in my opinions for over a year now

With the greatest respect Morpheus2702 if you disagree so much with what is written on this site why have you been visiting over the past year? Just move on, find other sites, stop coming somewhere that winds you up so much!

I feel the personal comments about the sites authors were a step too far. Debate, disagreement, alternative points of view bring a site alive, however this should be within the boundaries of remembering whose house you are in. You are not a customer here, you dont pay a subscription with an expectancy of a particular level of service. Even if the content on AAS was entirely Nokia Fanboy stuff (which in my opinion it is not), so what? Its their site, they can think or say what they like.

You are, of course, always welcome to give up huge amounts of your time and start your own editorial site to put the world straight but you run the risk of some faceless, anonymous person arriving day after day and slagging you off in your own house! I am of course using house as a metaphor for site ;-)

slitchfield
16-06-2009, 08:36 AM
Before this article, I had never heard of Justin Berkovi. From the link at the bottom of the page, I gather he is the (founding? only?) member of a marketing-for-hire company. Call me cynical, but a marketing-for-hire guy writing an opinion piece proclaiming the N97 the perfect phone sounds like Nokia astroturf to me.
Why was this article published? What are the AAS policies for external contributions? If I wrote and submitted an article describing my personal search for the perfect phone (spoiler alert: it's not the N97, not by a long shot), would Rafe publish it on this site?

Justin's piece was his own personal search and not anything to do with his professional activities. And yes, ANYONE is welcome to submit a similar piece with their own thoughts. If it's well written then it stands a good chance of being published.

P888
16-06-2009, 08:45 AM
This is so funny... so if I praise the N97, i am biased in favour of Nokia, if I bash it, I am biased against Nokia and if i give for and against views equally, I am a hopeless cowardly fence sitter. You just can't win!

AAS publishes an article (NOT a review may I remind everybody) favouring N97 and some people bash it. BGR publishes a review bashing the N97 and there are also some people who bash it too. Again, you just can't win, can you?! Hahaha!

And, morpheus, though I know you gonna bash me too for this (since you seem to be bashing everyone and everything here), I still gotta say that it seems that you like the Iphone very very much and you couldn't seem to stand another person saying that despite the Iphone being what it is, that guy still likes the N97 over the Iphone. You an Iphone fanboy too? (Now, people, prepare for some fireworks from this guy aimed at me at point blank range...)

However, my point is this, so what if one likes the N97 more? So what if one likes the Iphone more? So what? If you don't like the N97, bash it by all means but no need to bash the author who wrote about it or the website which published it. Similarly, if you don't like the Iphone or whichever other phone, bash it by all means but don't go bashing the people who actually likes the Iphone or whichever other phone it is. Some like blondes and some like brunettes, its all very personal and very very subjective, just try to remember that!

morpheus2702
16-06-2009, 09:05 AM
With the greatest respect Morpheus2702 if you disagree so much with what is written on this site why have you been visiting over the past year? Just move on, find other sites, stop coming somewhere that winds you up so much!
With the greatest respect Pauly, I've been a member on AAS for around 5 years. It's not that I disagree with every single iota of what is written here - I'd say that 50% is great stuff, 30% of it is grey noise that doesn't phase me one way or another and the 20% is the stuff like the opinion piece that sparked this whole discussion.

I feel the personal comments about the sites authors were a step too far. Debate, disagreement, alternative points of view bring a site alive, however this should be within the boundaries of remembering whose house you are in. You are not a customer here, you dont pay a subscription with an expectancy of a particular level of service. Even if the content on AAS was entirely Nokia Fanboy stuff (which in my opinion it is not), so what? Its their site, they can think or say what they like.
You are absolutely right, I'm not a paying customer so am owed absolutely nothing by Rafe, Steve or Ewan. You site 'Debate, disagreement, alternative points of view bring a site alive' which hits the nail on the head for me - it is the very lack of these things, the constant agreement, the continual acceptance and excuse making for substandard products and services from Nokia that has made me vocal.

You are, of course, always welcome to give up huge amounts of your time and start your own editorial site to put the world straight but you run the risk of some faceless, anonymous person arriving day after day and slagging you off in your own house! I am of course using house as a metaphor for site ;-)
I do not question the time and effort the team puts in to run the site and freely admit it is something I could never do. But does that mean that the site should not entertain feedback - whether you term that criticism or 'slagging off'? Are the masses at the gates of AAS on a daily basis throwing rotten fruit? No, I don't think so. But post a provocative opinion piece, you have to expect a reaction!

morpheus2702
16-06-2009, 09:25 AM
And, morpheus, though I know you gonna bash me too for this (since you seem to be bashing everyone and everything here), I still gotta say that it seems that you like the Iphone very very much and you couldn't seem to stand another person saying that despite the Iphone being what it is, that guy still likes the N97 over the Iphone. You an Iphone fanboy too? (Now, people, prepare for some fireworks from this guy aimed at me at point blank range...)

However, my point is this, so what if one likes the N97 more? So what if one likes the Iphone more? So what? If you don't like the N97, bash it by all means but no need to bash the author who wrote about it or the website which published it. Similarly, if you don't like the Iphone or whichever other phone, bash it by all means but don't go bashing the people who actually likes the Iphone or whichever other phone it is. Some like blondes and some like brunettes, its all very personal and very very subjective, just try to remember that!

P888, I'm not interested in bashing anyone, honestly!

The truth couldn't be further from the truth regarding the iPhone. I've played with it, like certain aspects of it, hate other aspects of it... but appreciate that it has changed the mobile market in an immense way.

As for the N97 - I've not read a full and objective review of one, I've not played with one apart from a prototype at CES and have no idea whether I'll like it or not. And that's my point - subjective opinion pieces are fine and dandy when they have an objective review to orbit around, but to exist in a vacuum, biased one way or another, then what is the point?

slitchfield
16-06-2009, 09:53 AM
Morpheus, you seem to have missed my own review (labelled as 'Part 1, but still fairly holistic) of the N97 here on AAS. ( http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/Nokia_N97_Review-Part_1-First_impressions.php ) How much more objective would you like us/me to be??

morpheus2702
16-06-2009, 10:10 AM
Not missed it at all Steve, reading it in eager anticipation of the completed 'formal' review.

lark
16-06-2009, 05:51 PM
Things appear to have gotten quite opinionated after I finished up last night. Anyway, I hope the feedback was useful to an extent although I am not sure how exactly AAS can balance/differentiate fluffier "editorial" pieces from more objective news and reviews.

Rafe:
I do appreciate the new Nokia strategy to move more towards "services" (and I actually agree with it). But this is no excuse for shoddy execution of these services. Nokia has a small army of software engineers that are highly paid to deliver new applications. For example you mentioned the v3 beta of Nokia Maps. Apart from the price and service model Nokia Maps has lagged Tom-Tom and Garmin in user interface until version 3. It still is not as intuitive to use as Google Maps (in non-turn by turn mode). And Nokia Maps is probably one of the most polished apps that Nokia has released over the past 3 years!! To me, if I were the Nokia CTO this would simply not be good enough.

Jejoma
17-06-2009, 09:26 AM
There has always been the "my phone is better than your phone" syndrome on mobile phone forums. Sometimes it is entertaining, occasionally just plain nasty.

However, things seem to have changed since the iPhone came on the scene and the vitriolitic hate for a phone that is not the one a poster thinks is the best has reached a very unpleasant high. Although usually the case, this is not just from iPhone fanboys.

The attitude now of many is that if a phone does not have a certain feature it should not only be criticised it should be trashed in the strongest possible fashion. This is regardless of whether or not others are quite happy to have a phone without that feature.

This is not just on AAS. Indeed there are a couple of forums I have stopped visiting because sensible discussion has all but totally changed to pure slagging off.

Or is it just me?

jjzzshen
03-07-2009, 03:34 AM
This clock projects the time, date, or temp on the wall or ceiling some people call
it a ceiling clock but I call it a digital projection clock. I got the black one because at the time that was the only color
they had. But now they have them in black and also in white.

Derrick115
11-07-2009, 07:29 AM
I used to love All About Symbian and it pains me to say it but it has now become an advertisment platform for Nokia. Thank God this isn't just me saying it, but as evidenced above, many others also.

Chrisp7
15-07-2009, 10:06 AM
Im in complete concurrence AAS has cant see the wood for the trees, all they see is Symbian in a positive light over everything else. Yes the negatives are pointed out but argued as not important. How much are Nokia paying you? I used to find this site at least balalnced.

slitchfield
16-07-2009, 07:02 AM
Why do you guys bother coming here? Just to insult the writers? Just to falsely accuse us? Nokia don't pay us a penny.